[Debate] - Religion

[Disturbed]

i wont debate much as i have strong faith but i think that everything has a creator, i mean who created all this? was it just there? i dunno

anyways, imma muslim myself and i dont hate ppl or think this war is against islam

those ppl who protest are angry at the US for supporting israel and think its an invasion on iraq

i dont think that iraq is a real threat but i think that saddam should be removed by any means possible so i kinda support the war

oops, i went off topic...back on topic XD :glasses:

[DrkFusion]

@Disturbed, I love your avatar and signature

As we said, those who do protest have been influenced by something, and as you cleared up, it is mainly by the thought that US supports Israel.

I am going to take some time today to read up on teh feud between Iraqis and Israelies, some Muslims and Hindus, and report back on anything else I find.

[Boofo]

Today at 09:56 PM Keptic said this in Post #20


How about lets put it this way, those who want to believe in god and religion, do whatever, if you don't, do whatever, we don't want to hear anyones thoughts.

Maybe you should look up the word "debate" in the dictionary. Just because someone doesn't necessarily believe the way you do, their "thoughts" (as you put it) are as relevant as anyone else's, including yours. That's what debating is all about.

Show me proof of what you say exists and I will believe. Faith and proof are totally different. You believe because it makes it easier to accept what you cannot change. And easier to accept the unexplainable.

[DrkFusion]

Debating sometimes gets out of hand My wording was not clear, but thats what I was hinting at.

The unexplainable is usually pointed at religion, but there are thousands of other reasons for belief in god, not just because you do not understand something. At the end it the word choice rolls up to your door steps.

Do you want to believe in Religion, or do you wish to believe in Science.

[ManagerJosh]

The talk of religion reminds me of Dragon's Teeth.

Its a greek mythology (not sure). But anyhow, to make a long story short, dragon was of enormous power who started many wars. Then several nations gathered together and killed the dragon.

What happened was the teeth fell into the ground and became water so that fighting would continue

As for the big bang theory, I find it personally hard to believe something of that magnitude would occur.

Let me explain.
I'll be refering to this book: (Evolution: a theory in crisis."
by Michael Denton) (Non-Religious)

Organisms and watches are similar because both are complex and have many co-operating parts. But they differ also in many ways. For example watches are made of glass and metal, and organisms are not. This is not a relevant difference. Relevant for the validity of Paley's analogy are properties bearing on the questions 'Where did this object come from?' or 'How was it produced?'. The following properties are relevant for the validity of the watchmaker analogy:

Watches don't reproduce
Watches don't have heredity
Watches don't have mutations

Typical for artefacts, a watch is produced from raw materials by external forces. Watches don't self-assemble. Watches don't descend from other watches. There are no father and mother watches, no baby watches. Every single watch we encounter is necessarily produced by external forces because watches are unable to reproduce themselves. Obviously watches need a watchmaker!
We know today that organisms reproduce and self-assemble on the basis of internal information (DNA). Watches don't have internal self-descriptive hereditary information. The instructions to manufacture a watch are located outside the watch, which explains why they cannot reproduce themselves. The properties reproduction and heredity tell us how living individuals come into existence. This is not a superficial difference, but a fundamental difference.

To my surprise Paley proposed designed, self-reproducing watches (10) and concluded that his design inference was reinforced. He was right that self-reproducing watches are a more powerful design. And he was right that self-reproduction is not an 'ultimate' explanation, because self-reproduction was designed by the watchmaker and not by the watch itself. Now my point is that if self-reproducing watches are a more powerful design strategy, then creating the first form of life and let it evolve into all the million of species, is certainly a far more powerful design method. Furthermore, designing the laws of nature and creating the initial conditions of the Big Bang must be the most powerful creation method. Paley wrote his book before Darwin's Origin of Species. If he had known about natural selection, then only the religious dogma of the fixity of species (biblical 'special creation') could prevent that one species could originate from another species. And the whole point of his analogy was to prove a Designer without relying on revealed religious knowledge. (11)
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[sunzfan]

03-23-03 at 04:12 AM Boofo said this in Post #18
Ok, think about this:

The bible was supposedly written by the 12 apostles, right?

How much would you believe of a book written by 12 guys sitting around drinking wine all the time?

Don't you honestly believe there were a few "hey, let's put this in there since we don't know the real answer" or "I [high]think[/high] this is how it happened" passages?

No "offense," but this is simply the most retarded thing i've read. At least get the facts before you make stupid posts.

The bible was written by

40 Authors
Spanning appx 1600 years

NOT 12 guys drinking wine together.

And where is all of the information on Jesus from the time he was 18 until he was 33? Makes you wonder with what they left out, what they didn't put in and why.

The bible contains everything that we were meant to read. Where was moses the entire "climb" up mount sinai, do we read every single step? Of course not. Simply because we are not told of Jesus's every birthday in exact detail does not mean stuff was "left out"

I'm tired of hearing people talk about the fact there can't be a god because of world suffering and all that.

Do some people have long hair? Yes. Does that mean barbors don't exist? Of course not. Those people simply haven't gone to see a barbor. It's the same with God. People choose to go to him and others do not.

[filburt1]

Don't start insulting people or this thread will be locked and key participants banned, if you get my drift.

[Boofo]

Just because you don't agree, doesn't make it "retarded" as you put it. And your so-called facts are no more provable than anyone else's. The bible is about faith and whether you want to have faith in that. That's all it is. If you want to believe, so you can try to make sense of all the crap that happens in our lives, then go for it. That's your choice.

[sunzfan]

first, i am honored to have "drifted" into a role as a "key participant" as filburt1 said.

second, what does "and your so called facts" are no more provable than anyone else's mean?

this isn't garbled junk. it's fact (i'm not saying the contents, but the historical facts of dates written)

thoughrout non-biblical history there is writings and documentations by and about the authors of the books. flavious wrote of paul and peter for example, outside the biblical realm, in his own writings. the bible wasn't a journel entry from 12 drunks...it is an inspired compilation of 40 authors and HISTORICALLY spans 1600 years. You can debate any of it's contents to your will, but dont' debate the way the contents came about...unless you want to say they spanned 1599 years or 1601...i can live with that.

[sunzfan]

here are some images that some may want to see

1st peter