Obamatopia

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by Sticky1

He has a strange way of showing his concern for the country!

You mean he Isn't a socialist........damm and all this time I thought.......

You know, "spreading the wealth" was an unfortunate turn of phrase in that Obama has used, to my knowledge, only twice. However, his tax plan has absolutely nothing to do with socialism. His plan rolls back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy (and I'm sorry, if you make more then a quarter million dollars a year, your wealthy) and gives the tax cuts to the middle class instead. I realize that was the McCain party line for the last few weeks of the campaign, but the whole notion of him being a socialist for that very reason is just plain silly.

Hummm, so that is what makes a good president? Nice to know.

The whole package is what makes a good president. We judged the last guy on far less then that, and look where it got us.

SO - what has he done besides raise taxes...?

What taxes has Obama raised exactly? I believe I stated this already, Obama was voted in because of his judgment on all the important issues. Truthfully, that is and has always been the way we measure Presidents being that, barring a guy running for a second term, no one can claim that they have experience being President. Judgment will almost always trump experience, which is why we got Presidents like Lincoln and Kennedy.

Sheepeople voted for him because they belive this administration is the worst thing since sliced bread. How do you know? Actually you will never know whats going on at the top level of govt. There might have been a "really"good reason for the war and other items.

So why is it, when people disagree with you, they're sheep? Why is it, when people have a positive view of someone, it's only because the last guy was far worse by comparison. Look, if we were only interested in replacing Bush because anyone was better then that, the country could have gone with anyone else. Instead it went for the guy who by all accounts and by all measure of history didn't stand a chance. Doesn't that tell you something, at least, about the people's measure of the man, rather then you insulting their intelligence because they don't share your opinion?

Most people go by what they have caught from their neighbors and friends. So who says they are right? People are sheep. At least they showed there colors in this election.

We really don't know anything about this guy. His campaign silenced all the people who wanted to bring out the gray questions. The media has lost all creditability with me since all the talked about was him. Talk about lopsided! So now they want to silence free speach with the fairness doctrin.

Whats next........Spreading the wealth?

Are you really under the impression that every neighborhood in the US is a bunch of guys sitting on their front porch being cajoled into voting for the choice of the guy with the biggest personality? This is the 21st century. Most of us don't even know our neighbor's first name. We may not even know what our neighbors look like. What we go by these days is our own best judgment. Again, why malign others because they don't share your opinion?

Also, that notion that Obama's campaign silenced anyone is equally ridiculous. The reason none of these so called "grey" questions where pursued is because they where all debunked ages ago. Only the fringe groups wanted to rehash this stuff, and what credible arguments they couldn't find, they made up. (i.e Obama is an Arab, Obama is a Muslim, Obama is a Space Alien, Obama was born three tenths of a second before Hawaii became a state.) What's sad is no one criticises the media for not pursuing the questionable alliances McCain has made over the years. Granted, they were no more insidious then any of Obama's so called ties, but still, there were no massive outcries to the media to dredge those up.

[lasto]

You all want so much from one man - its a certainty that you are going to be disapointed.

Iv been told America will crumble n go down soon in comming years as Israel is going to become the next super power and will rule the world for some years b 4 they elect their fake ....... who will be around only for a short while until the real ....... will come down and wipe out the evil ones

we are all going to suffer big time until this day so wake up !

You getz me bro

[Shelley_c]

Great, we have a preacher boring us to death. You were told. who by exactly? the voice in your head?

Sorry for the bad english, I'm english. :up:

[Michael Biddle]

Originally Posted by Amran Iqbal

we are all going to suffer big time

Amen to that!

[Sticky1]

Originally Posted by KevinL

The progressive tax system has been in effect for years....there is going to be no change. Stop saying things you have no idea what you're talking about :erm:

YEA OK right.....I didn't hear him say that.......

"Stop saying things you have no idea what you're talking about :erm:[/QUOTE]"

GOOD idea!!

--------------- Added [DATE]1227580822[/DATE] at [TIME]1227580822[/TIME] ---------------

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

You know, "spreading the wealth" was an unfortunate turn of phrase in that Obama has used, to my knowledge, only twice. However, his tax plan has absolutely nothing to do with socialism. His plan rolls back the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy (and I'm sorry, if you make more then a quarter million dollars a year, your wealthy) and gives the tax cuts to the middle class instead. I realize that was the McCain party line for the last few weeks of the campaign, but the whole notion of him being a socialist for that very reason is just plain silly.



The whole package is what makes a good president. We judged the last guy on far less then that, and look where it got us.



What taxes has Obama raised exactly? I believe I stated this already, Obama was voted in because of his judgment on all the important issues. Truthfully, that is and has always been the way we measure Presidents being that, barring a guy running for a second term, no one can claim that they have experience being President. Judgment will almost always trump experience, which is why we got Presidents like Lincoln and Kennedy.


So why is it, when people disagree with you, they're sheep? Why is it, when people have a positive view of someone, it's only because the last guy was far worse by comparison. Look, if we were only interested in replacing Bush because anyone was better then that, the country could have gone with anyone else. Instead it went for the guy who by all accounts and by all measure of history didn't stand a chance. Doesn't that tell you something, at least, about the people's measure of the man, rather then you insulting their intelligence because they don't share your opinion?



Are you really under the impression that every neighborhood in the US is a bunch of guys sitting on their front porch being cajoled into voting for the choice of the guy with the biggest personality? This is the 21st century. Most of us don't even know our neighbor's first name. We may not even know what our neighbors look like. What we go by these days is our own best judgment. Again, why malign others because they don't share your opinion?

Also, that notion that Obama's campaign silenced anyone is equally ridiculous. The reason none of these so called "grey" questions where pursued is because they where all debunked ages ago. Only the fringe groups wanted to rehash this stuff, and what credible arguments they couldn't find, they made up. (i.e Obama is an Arab, Obama is a Muslim, Obama is a Space Alien, Obama was born three tenths of a second before Hawaii became a state.) What's sad is no one criticises the media for not pursuing the questionable alliances McCain has made over the years. Granted, they were no more insidious then any of Obama's so called ties, but still, there were no massive outcries to the media to dredge those up.

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand either of them. As a matter of fact, any of them!

So if the Bush tax cuts are "rolled back" those making 45k/yr will pay an extra 3k in taxes, those making 25k/yr will pay 700. in extra taxes. Now if he cuts taxes on the middle class then we will be at the same level or more then we are at now. Hummmm, can you say play on words? PS - He raised taxes on those making over 45k a few years ago in the senate.

Wealthy is over a million/yr. I guess its all where you sit in the poop. So why should the person making more than you pay more by an unequal sliding scale? Chances are he hired you. Chances are people will loose there jobs..........

There were two people that I can think of that started out this way, one in germany and one in cuba! Time will tell, we'll see, although it might be too late by then.

Sheepeople vote because they are infactuated with the person. Reagan, Swartzeneger(sp), Hogan, Obama........ Lets face it, if McCain were younger and acted like he was alive, he would have won. I don't care if you agree or disagree, people are sheep, not all, but most. They follow, they don't leed. If you really think they voted on the issues.....ok....once again, most had no idea of the issues.

Gray questions debunked my butt. Bury the questions is more like it. Your buddy pelosi wants to cut free speech as I had mentioned. Who runs the media?

I wanted to write in "NONE OF THE ABOVE". Unfortunatly, we would have needed 51% to get rid of both!!

Time will tell..!!!

[GSeybold]

I find it funny that so many people have so many opinions of either side when all we are just conduits(some easily manipulated) for opinion based rhetoric, spun as far is it can be spun, and then some.

I did not vote for either and I'm so glad about this. Although I do lean Republican, I would have voted for Obama if I didn't see Clinton coming(again) and he wasn't so green.

I also find it funny that Republicans are often called war machines yet wasn't it a Democrat who dropped not one but TWO atomic bombs on hundreds of thousands of innocent people incinerating them where they stood, leaving just their shadows on the pavement? "The Buck Stops Here." Yeah right Harry, tell that to the millions of Japanese still suffering from the consequences of a Democrat who used the worst judgment in U.S. history to date. We think Bush is bad? Good god, search Hiroshima-such an evil abuse of power. And if I remember correctly, didn't Clinton spread his war wings while in office as well? Humm and why didn't Truman step in sooner with Hitler? Are Democrates suppoed to be the better humanitarians? Bull sheet! Not at that time in our history tjat's for darn sure.

Humm.. do I feel more safe with a Democrat in office? Ah no! Do I feel safe with Republican in the white house? Ah no! Do I feel safe with an inexperienced unknown man in the whitehouse? Ah no! Were we safe with Kennedy in the white house? ah no! Cuba Missile Crisis. Where we safe with LBJ in the whitehouse? Ah no! He thought the Russian were about to attack after Kennedy was gone and ordered our troops to full alert. What would that be in our alert system today? Code whatever?

MY long point was... It doesn't matter what party is in office. What matters is time, fate, quest of power and stupid humans. <presidents that is.

So pardon me if I don't subscribe to Camelot-ish post Obama win mentality. I can't be manipulated by the media unlike most of the world.

I hope Obama does well.

P.S. My father a staunch Southern Democrat, my mother a staunch Northern Repubican. They taught me to look beyond ideology for the greater good. We haven't done this in decades. I guess we've been to busy wonder how Britney is doing, who's Paris's next BFF or who's the next top model?

[lasto]

Originally Posted by Amran Iqbal

Iv been told America will crumble n go down soon in comming years as Israel is going to become the next super power and will rule the world for some years b 4 they elect their fake ....... who will be around only for a short while until the real ....... will come down and wipe out the evil ones

we are all going to suffer big time until this day so wake up !

You getz me bro

stop dreaming.......

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by lasto

You all want so much from one man - its a certainty that you are going to be disapointed.

There's another one I don't get. What is this "so much" that everyone with an opposing view keeps saying Obama supporters want? A President who creates jobs? A president in touch with times? A President who doesn't fabricate reasons to go to war? A President who can pronounce the word nuclear?

You know, we've actually had a few decent Presidents over the course of our history. I expect Obama to do just a little bit better then they did. Wow, what a stretch.

Originally Posted by Sticky1

Don't get me wrong, I can't stand either of them. As a matter of fact, any of them!

So if the Bush tax cuts are "rolled back" those making 45k/yr will pay an extra 3k in taxes, those making 25k/yr will pay 700. in extra taxes. Now if he cuts taxes on the middle class then we will be at the same level or more then we are at now. Hummmm, can you say play on words? PS - He raised taxes on those making over 45k a few years ago in the senate.

Wealthy is over a million/yr. I guess its all where you sit in the poop. So why should the person making more than you pay more by an unequal sliding scale? Chances are he hired you. Chances are people will loose there jobs..........

Well, now if you had actually read the tax plan that was on his website for the entirety of the campaign (and still is) you would see that the Bush tax cuts would either be rolled back or allowed to expire. Either way, the plan is that those making a quarter million a year would see higher taxes. The top 5% of the country. The other 95% would see a tax cut.

Now, you can disagree with that philosophy, but Obama and his surrogates stated and restated this ad nauseum for over a year. To suggest he said or has done anything different would just be a fabrication (or not paying attention).

By the way, those taxes that Obama raised? I was wondering if you would actually site the number, and better yet the reasons. The truth is he voted to raise taxes 94 times while in the senate. But you know what, reasons matter. Some of those votes were raising taxes on millionaires to fund groups like veterans programs and Head Start. Others raised taxes on corporations of the wealthy while cutting taxes on the middle class. But predominantly, he raised taxes on the affluent and cut taxes on the middle class. Pretty much directly in line with the philosophy of his campaign tax plan. Now like I said, you can disagree with that. But to suggest he's stated anything different is beyond spin, it's a fabrication.

There were two people that I can think of that started out this way, one in germany and one in cuba! Time will tell, we'll see, although it might be too late by then.

So your comparing the guy who actively campaigned against democracy and the guy who used violence to overthrow his own government to the guy who said he believed that Americans can do anything if they put their mind to it? Honestly, you might as well compare him to Lex Luthor, they have about as much in common.

Sheepeople vote because they are infactuated with the person. Reagan, Swartzeneger(sp), Hogan, Obama........ Lets face it, if McCain were younger and acted like he was alive, he would have won. I don't care if you agree or disagree, people are sheep, not all, but most. They follow, they don't leed. If you really think they voted on the issues.....ok....once again, most had no idea of the issues.

Okay, did you just suggest that everyone is sheep because they follow? So we're all supposed to lead? You lost me here.

Gray questions debunked my butt. Bury the questions is more like it. Your buddy pelosi wants to cut free speech as I had mentioned. Who runs the media?

My buddy? <Looks for missing Pelosi Christmas card>

Okay, which issue was buried? His birth certificate? His heritage (as if it mattered)? His association with William Ayres? What? All of these have been debunked over and over again.

Originally Posted by GSeybold

So pardon me if I don't subscribe to Camelot-ish post Obama win mentality. I can't be manipulated by the media unlike most of the world.

I hope Obama does well.

Not to come of harsh here, but while I respect your right to be cautious, I resent the implication that mine or anyone's admiration of Obama was because we were manipulated by the media. If anything, the opposite was true.

I'm a stay-at-home dad and I would string all the major news networks playlists each day as I went about my day. I heard as much harsh criticism of Obama as I did positive feedback. And I don't lump opinion shows like Olbermann and O'Riley as part of the media, as so many do. Of course opinion shows are going to be biased. That's why their opinion shows. The regular news networks asked all the same questions over and over again and put Obama through the ringer. Most people only saw the little news snippets at the end of the day. And if they said anything remotely positive about Obama, suddenly the other side would scream bias.

Truth is, a non-partisan fact check group tallied up the number of times reporters had said something negative about Obama as it did about McCain. But that's a story that didn't get much coverage because the opposite of what you say is true: folks were already sold on the story that the media loved Obama that it didn't matter if the facts said otherwise.

I also resent the suggestion that because one admires the man that they think he's going to bring about Camelot. For goodness sake, are we as a nation so cynical that the idea that someone might do a good job running the country is so fableish means you got your head in the clouds? There are some sensible people out there, and every so often in our history, they get put into a position to make some real positive changes. It happens. You've got to temper your cautiousness just enough so you don't miss it when it does.

[iogames]

Man! I admired George Stephanopoulos for years! but he kissed ass from Chicago to DC all the way!