The Arcive of Official vBulletin Modifications Site.It is not a VB3 engine, just a parsed copy! |
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#1
08-09-2007, 03:45 AM
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Admin and Mods Not Treating their Members Correctly
This is Not A Rant But a Point I would like to make , Moderators Feal free to delete this thread if it violates any rules My intent is not to cause trouble just to express my self among other Admins / Mods .
For a start , Im Fairly new to Owning a site but have been admin for a few years . And a member for over 5 years , Ive seen all sides of the Web Forum World . Any Site with out a privacy Policy thats not Stock I would not Trust , Ive had My own and a ton of my friends email address get end up with a spam company , I know this to be 100% Fact Pm Me and i will go into detail for you , Upon this discovery We all found the site had no privacy policy and we were at our own risk , To be a Good Admin You should ensure your members that there private information is Safe and you wont share it , This is not an option for you , W/O a Privacy Policy you can lose alot of your Google ads, Auction Ad's ect By not holding up your end of the deal . Miserable Users Mod - I know this is Pauls mod , I respect Paul A Lot and dont mean to take anything away from his great mods ect,,, However this Is Just Flat out Wrong Think about it Someone wants to view your site and you make it a PITA for them on purpose , If you dont want them there ban there IP address and Grow Up a little , I found my Friends on the Miserable User Group as he was complaing about speed and stuff , I investigated and There it was , (This was on another site) The Admin of this other site was showing on forum leaders the miserable user group , Once the word got out then back around to the members there was a Mass Exidios of members from that forum , Its Corrupt And An Abuse of The Privlage of Being an Admin in the first place . Read PM's Is just Flat Out Wrong in so many ways and is a major Abuse of powers , As Admin we should hold our selves to a higher standard Of Good Morals and portray the same for our members . Im Disappointed That many Admin Resort to these Tactics , And I run my forum a lot different than most as my rules are ... Quote:
Treat Your Members Like adults and with respect and you will get it in return , Setting Auto Subscribe to default to all threads they post in and using the re-occurring Subscription Setting are Also Wrong Be sneaking and intruding on your members privacy by reading there Pm's ,Selling there Personal Information and Throwing them in a user Group where the Site Bucks them at every turn ... And You will get yours in the end My .02 Dont take it personal DM 
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#2
08-09-2007, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
 - it's not exactly mine, just the latest versions are released by me. MU was initially written for vb2 by someone called Zzed over four years ago. It was adapted for vb3 by someone else (Kirafire), and then ported to 3.5 & 3.6 by myself. You may not agree with it (you are entitled to your view  ). However, if you look at the install stats for it then you seem to be in a minority. It is second only to "Who has visited Today" in both my 3.5 & 3.6 releases. 
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#3
08-09-2007, 03:09 PM
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Thanks for not deleting my post
and i hear ya about installs just goes to show you how corrupt society is Today and how no One has Standards Anymore DM
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#4
08-09-2007, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
There are vaild reasons for using both of these modifications. The MU hack is good for stopping spam bots and trolls. The read PM hack can be helpful in cases where members are abusing each other via the PM system. It's important that we don't label modifications like this as "unethical" imho.
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#5
08-09-2007, 04:12 PM
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If thats the Reasons for your Mods then Tell the members you have them
If your not using them for anything but good then you have nothing to fear DM
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#6
08-09-2007, 10:35 PM
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Explaining the technical details of my sites back-end is of no use. Half of them won't understand what I'm talking about and the rest won't care or will start spreading FUD ("OMFG admins can read my PMs!").
Besides if they read the TOS they would already know that private messages aren't truely "private". It's just like their e-mail, IM convos, and just about anything else they use the internet for, nothing is truely private and there is someone a long the chain that can see and read anything you do. As for the MU hack we don't use it but have something similar. How it works is no bodies business but my own. It's my cheap form of security...they aren't working on the source code for it so there is no point in passing it around.  Aside from all that why do you even care? If you don't like the staff team at a forum then leave it for a better one. That's the great thing about the internet...so many places to go.
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#7
08-13-2007, 10:28 AM
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Thanks For Asking Why i Care ,
Not Addressed to You or Anyone in particular AND IF IM OVER THE LINE JUST DELETE THE THREAD I WONT BRING THIS OR ANYOTHER DEBATE EVER AGAIN I STAND TOO MUCH TO LOSE IN TROUBLE HERE ........ Im a member of my Site First and Owner Admin Second , Ive been Craped on on many forums , Been banned from more than 5 and pushed and proded my fair share by admin , Some read my PM's Thats none of there buisness Then denied it and Lied about it in the open . Others placed my friends in the miserable users just because they were friends of Mine They didnt do any thing wrong Heres the thing rather you want to admit it or not , End Users Make "Your" site a home away from home , They settle in and have a since of security Gain alot of friends ect.... Then one Day you Ban them for what ever reason Do you Know How it Feals ? You Ever Been Pushed Around ? Hated On For what ever reason ? Are you So high and mighty as Admin that you dont really care what people on "your" site think Because your raking in the $$$$ ......There $$$ and Spending it on things other than what there paying to support Theres alot of Curuptness on Online Communities Money Hungry Admin who could care less about there members other than Donations ,,,, Asking for donations for things that are free FOR THE SITE then spending the money on pizza and shoes insted . IMO Admin have a responsibillity for there Members , Respect Them, Treat Them like adults Spying and Pulling Sneaky Tricks on the members is Just Flat WRONG .IMO My Opinion Dont Much Count on this issue , But there is some serious Moral issues on some Bulletin Boards That Angers me , True Colors Do Shine Threw and sticking a disclaimer amoung a policy is just more ways to say ... Ohhh You didnt know we read PM's ..., Well its right here No Accountabillity , Getting out of things on technicallites My Board is Strait Up , My Members Privacy Is Top Proity They can Feal Safe on my board and not worry about me just banning them because i want to , Reading there pms or MUin them for the hell of it , 100% of all Paid subscitions and Donations Go back into the site Dont think good Morals and treating people Right Works .... 100 paid Subscribers in less than 5 mths and We have collected a total of $1154.72 since June 27th 2007 100% of these funds Are used for the server fees and sponsored search Ads Ect... all Site related There Supporting the site not the fat guy on the coutch I guess As i strolled into OwnerShip My outlook was alot diffrent then most ... I Didn t just pick a topic that i thought would make the most money I picked a topic Im Passonate About And Enjoy talking with others about that topic I have a Job i work in a factory 12 Hour Days swing shift I dont need my Members Paying my Bills , My Goal is to build a community That I would be Proud to be a member of ,,, Not one that makes me Rich If Thats Wrong then I dont want to be Right Sincerly DM
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#8
08-13-2007, 03:44 PM
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Firstly, what's wrong about being a full-time admin? You then have a lot more time to improve your forums and that's good for your members and for the forums. And I don't think using money from the advertisements (or even from donations) for yourself is a bad thing, you have also put a lot of work there, which would cost if you did it for somebody else.
About MU now... A site is a privately owned area, and you should have the right to throw away members that you don't like there, as you would do with your house. A ban isn't always an acceptable solution, you can't ban somebody because you simply don't want him/her in your forums! Also, he might have friends that you would like in your forums, so banning him would result in them leaving as well. So MU could be of use in that situation. It's not about ethics, its about simple logic. Disclaimer: I am not a full-time admin (although I would like to be) and I don't have the MU hack (although sometimes I'm tempted to install it but I always say to myself "Try to bare this, and install it on a worse situation").
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#9
08-13-2007, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Erm, you shouldn't just disregard all sites with different privacy policies than stock, as that would take away the services of most major websites such as Google, Yahoo, eBay, Youtube, etc or those of Microsoft products (LOL). But agreed that those who send spam or sell personal information are in the wrong, and should preferably be taken care of with legal action or the like. And I personally don't give away member's personal information, and I don't suppose any vBulletin official sites would either. Frankly, the reason the Miserable Users mod exists is to annoy a troll until they leave. You want them to keep re registering under different names and IPs, and more bans having to be issued? No, it shuts them up basically. Besides, if anyone don't like it, there's always Tachy Goes to Coventry (puts trolls on global ignore to all other members and stops any of their posts or PMs being seen or read). I personally feel that the second one is even better, as instead of trying to use Capital Punishment online, I belief forced solipsism will shut up a jerk. Heck, I even wish the second option was possible in real life, cutting all human contact or living contact to criminals to make them feel like the only being in the universe and taking away all that would bring enjoyment. And that seems to work online quite well. Besides, do you think Miserable Users is the only version of this in existance? There are tons of mods for all forum software that are based around the same troll punishment concepts. As for Reading PMs, it has legitimate uses. And non legitimate ones. No one says reading PMs for fun is a fair or honest idea, and in fact very much like spying on people's private lives. However, there are uses. For example, illegal activities in PMs. Many don't report the PMs because they like to take part for the promised benefits, and if you didn't take action, couldn't you be kind of in trouble legally? And PM spammers/flamers. PM spammers or advertisers use PMs to draw people to competing sites. Would you rather want an empty forum where everyone has left to go to a competing site? And flaming. I recently caught someone who sent a PM with like hundreds of personal attacks and insults, with profanity to someone they disliked on the forum. That goes un noticed without stuff like this. Yes, reporting PMs is also useful, and I also use this personally, and think it should be default. To add and conclude, this has legit uses and basically just does what was possible for ages in all forum software for many years by reading the database. Heck, XMB even had the option in by default ages ago. Auto subscriptions I never even knew some people used. Seems dishonest to me. As for your rules Quote:
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I wonder how you would respond to these then: Admin Log in as User https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=122989 Show latest PMs on forum home Auto post as user (automatic posting from fake accounts or something) https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=155086 Mass create fake members (create 1000s with predefined fake e-mails in a few minutes) https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=154637 Fake community stats (make it look like 1000s online at once and millions of registered users) https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=117933
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#10
08-13-2007, 06:26 PM
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Just a footnote, I run 2 R\C sites, which means typicly there are alot of younger folks on there as it is usually a young hobby. I had a porn spammer come on and start sending PM's with porn links in them. If it werent for PM workbench (version for 3.6.8 PLEASE!!!) I wouldnt have known for a while. I use the hack only for good. If I see a member join the site and within an hour is PMing alot of people, I find out why.
Morality is in the hands of the Admin, and for the most part this authority is not abused, however there are some sites where it is. For those who use their site in a bad way, there's karma. For the rest of us, these are useful tools.
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