Are Hack authors liable for the use of their work

[FASherman]

This thread is 'inspired' by comments made in the Super Admins can Read Private Messages hack thread by Floris.

To not polute the hack thread more, all posts on the subject of liability of the author/vb.org have been split and put in this thread.

Feel free to continue the discussion in this thread.

MarcoH64

Originally Posted by floris

NOTE:

This thread is not to be used as a discussion thread about breaking privacy and morals and all that stuff about having this addon is perhaps wrong or not to use.

We've already had that discussion and my point of view about this shall not change, nor do I use this on my own sites. If you disagree with this resource, don't use it!

As the author, you SHOULD warn people that the use of this hack without the proper disclaimers when a user signs up is considered a violation of many state and some federal laws (at least within the US).

That is simple fact, not an ethical discussion.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

You can not expect that a coder have knowledge of the laws in all countries in the world. It is up to the site owner to know his laws.

[FASherman]

Originally Posted by MarcoH64

You can not expect that a coder have knowledge of the laws in all countries in the world. It is up to the site owner to know his laws.

Courts don't see it that way. They also assign responsibility to the developer. Why do you think Microsoft is having their arse handed to them in European courts for practices that are completely legal in the US.

For HIS protection, Floris should mention that use of the hack may be considered illegal in some states and/or countries. The HE is covered and anyone who downloads it assumes the responsibility. Without that warning, he also remains liable under many laws. Not only that, this site would also be considered culpable.

You job as a moderator and his as the developer should be to protect yourselves from any legal ramifications. Don't you guys have a legal advisor? Take it to him if you don't beleive me when I tell you without these disclaimers, VB.Org and Floris would be open to a lawsuit either by the user of any site running the hack that became offended at their PM being read OR by a web admin for not being sufficiently warned after he/she is sued.

[Floris]

May I point out that the private msgs are stored plain text in the database, and phpmyadmin also discloses these messages to the people with the user/pass .. or to the user through shell > using mysql interface? Or any other UI that can read out data from a database? This is just a means to an end for the product vbulletin.

[FASherman]

Doesn't matter. That has been decided in court too. That arguement was used by mail administrators sued for reading email. The legal precedence is that the law is the only impediment necessary because regardless of how the messages are stored, it there is an action prompted by a conscious decision that results in the law being broke. It doesnt occur by accident or happenstance.

Just one last word of advice. By actively discouraging discussion about the legal ramification, you are actually making yourself the primary target of any litigation. It shows motive towards keeping the implementers of this hack in the dark concerning their legal liability.

[FASherman]

Feel free. If you're not interested in protecting your site or your developers from lawsuits, why the hell should I care? I'm not trying to convince anyone, just trying to educate the ignorant. But as is usually the case, the ignorant don't care to be educated.

Delete them all for all the good its done. And show us the value of freedom of speech in Europe all at the same time.

[Michael Morris]

Oh lookie!!

A dead horse!!!


Let's beat the snot out of it!!!!!

[Chris M]

I would have thought that Hack authors are not liable for the use of their work - If a user chooses to download it, they accept any liability related to them using it...

By creating the 'read pms' hack, it does not break any privacy laws because Floris cannot view the PMs on your site or any other site that he does not have his own hack installed on, and I would imagine that any site he does have it installed on he has a policy about being able to read people PMs...

You are talking about a conscious decision to view them - It also takes a conscious decision to download the hack, and whether you understand what it does or not, ignorance is not an excuse...

Satan

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by floris

stop using this thread to discuss all that.

So, vb.com team members now issuing commands about what can be discussed on vb.org - did I miss the takeover then ?

Seems to me this person is simply warning you (and others) to be careful, a perfectly reasonable thing to do. But as with the last case (about copyright ?) everyone connected with the site seems to go into some sort of fit when advice is given. Most bizarre reaction.

[Corriewf]

Originally Posted by hellsatan

I would have thought that Hack authors are not liable for the use of their work - If a user chooses to download it, they accept any liability related to them using it...

By creating the 'read pms' hack, it does not break any privacy laws because Floris cannot view the PMs on your site or any other site that he does not have his own hack installed on, and I would imagine that any site he does have it installed on he has a policy about being able to read people PMs...

You are talking about a conscious decision to view them - It also takes a conscious decision to download the hack, and whether you understand what it does or not, ignorance is not an excuse...

Satan

To play "devils advocate", if someone created a software that would download mp3s illegally, would that person be liable for piracy caused by their software?