vBorgforge? (a novel)

[The Geek]

The preamble ramble

Er, not sure if this has been suggested or not - hopefully Im an insane genius that can cackle relentlessly at my own creativity (most likely not)

However... I was on a roll posting here tonight and I thought I would continue with something that I have been meandering on for awhile... (tack it down to the sheer boredom of a hotel room).

The point in a round about way

There are loads of projects that would benefit the community as a whole if there was a way that you could set up a system where a group could own and develop a project.

Right now, Joe develops a mack... releases it... and spends his time supporting it. Jane wants to help, so she makes a post and attaches a bit o code in hopes that it may be folded into the current or future release however Joe is a pretty busy fella and doesnt have the time to check and integrate and release so Janes contribution gets buried.
Meanwhile Frank is insipred by Joes work and creates something based on Joes work - but ads a new twist or new level of functionality to ol Joes stuff even though Joe led the way, Janes work becomes irrelavant, joe journeys to sumatra looking for freaky monkeys and the project dies leaving Frank wondering if he would upset Joes grandma if he released his new twist on the old code.

Phew.

This is a bit drawn out isnt it?

The Climax

In a nutshell, I think it would be scrumdiddlyumchious to have each mack be manageable by a group. If joe buggers off, then another member in the group can always apoint someone else to take his place and keep it alive.

The mack can have its own page outlining the functionality, the releases, progress reports, etc... and of course amazingly enough - a discussion thread.
All previous versions could potentially be accessible for stability purposes (including release notes etc...) and a kind of cvs system that would allow multiple people to work on it.

yayayaya - whatever. Im sure the admin and mods eyes have rolled back to ensure that their frontal lobe is still intact ("Does this nut realize the work that would be required to introduce/maintain a system like this?"... yes. Wouldnt it be easier to do with a system like this!). I bet my lotto ticket that something like this could really really work well.

Why? (the introspective bit)

For one, I really hold back on realeasing new code and putting forth code proposals as it inevitably leads to an amazing amount of time that is spent riding solo helping people use it, implimenting fixes, implimenting new features, drinking beer, and writing installer, readme's, etc... Which inevitably leads to new or existing projects dieing on the grapevine and the developer getting frustrated as users get frustrated.

Ultimatly a mack comes down to the 1 person that releases it. Ownership, rights, responsability, etc... which only serves to hinder its development and thus the potential heights that the mack could reach (including the attractiveness that vB gets from an active development community).

What I am proposing wont make Elton John grow his hair back... however it could make a big difference in the evolution of the world (well, as far as vB macks are concerned anyway)

Ill stop now before your snoring gets much louder.

Proglogue and authors note

Excuse the typist as he just on a roll with typing his thoughts as they come to him.

[Colin F]

While not exactly what you described above, I am working on something that should help out with this a bit... well ok, I should be working, I actually never get to it

[tamarian]

I like it :up: I personally release my code as GPL, so there are no cioyright/license restrictions from getting others involved in the projects.

But I can't see this being done on vb.org. There are lots of hacks needed to enable this on vbulletin (CVS, various permissions, etc.)

Can't this be done on an existing forge-type site, like sourceforge.net itself?

[The Geek]

Originally Posted by Colin F

While not exactly what you described above, I am working on something that should help out with this a bit... well ok, I should be working, I actually never get to it

aha! Exactly the reason why something like this needs to be created!
With a system like this - others could pitch in to bring the concept to life!

Tamarian - Im in the same boat, I practically beg others to get involved in helping out with projects... but no one ever really takes the bait as the system isnt really designed for it. With the system as it is, a person is left with a finite number of projects they can continute too/with as the time it takes to see even the smallest project to a decent conclusion is far too much. A grouped system would allow teams that were great on support to support the mack, those good at installers/readme to focus on those elements and finally those that are great at founding a project to do what they do best... found!
I disagree that it should be done on another site - if it benefits the community, it should be done here (actually - must is a better word).

[tamarian]

Originally Posted by The Geek

I disagree that it should be done on another site - if it benefits the community, it should be done here (actually - must is a better word).

That would kill the project, or delay it for a looong time

How do you see a vbulletin board, even a heavily hacked one like vb.org supporting multiple developemnt teams? I mean providing the needed tools such as CSV, authentication of team permissions for each project?

Otherwise, you'd be stuck with the a single thread, single author with the sole responsibility for uploading and updating. To commit changes from others, you'd have to sort emails and PM's to incorporate such contributions. And if you're on vacation or elsewhere, the project is stuck, and you can't deligate anything even if you want to....

[Colin F]

Originally Posted by tamarian

aha! Exactly the reason why something like this needs to be created!

touch?

[The Geek]

Originally Posted by tamarian

That would kill the project, or delay it for a looong time

How do you see a vbulletin board, even a heavily hacked one like vb.org supporting multiple developemnt teams? I mean providing the needed tools such as CSV, authentication of team permissions for each project?

Otherwise, you'd be stuck with the a single thread, single author with the sole responsibility for uploading and updating. To commit changes from others, you'd have to sort emails and PM's to incorporate such contributions. And if you're on vacation or elsewhere, the project is stuck, and you can't deligate anything even if you want to....

I honestly dont think it would be so difficult.

Whoever starts the project (by clicking the handy undeveloped 'new project' button) could add devlopers, add releases (along with the developers), and all it would need is three exta tables (in theory).
1- Project
Project id
start date
Last update
title
synopsis
text
latest version
threadid

2. Developers
userid
projectid
versionid
role

3. Roles
id
title

4. Project versions
projectid
versionid
isstable
developers

5 projectpackages
id
projectid
versionid
stateid
text

allrightallright. Its not exactly 3 tables AND there would be more I am sure (with refined and additional fields)... however I am sure you get the point.

I think it would take as long to get the project going here as it would anywhere else and be of stonger benefit here.
Hell, why not open auditions for a dev team to create it? There is enough talent floating around these parts to entice something that wouldnt take too long to bring to fruition AND end up being the beta team for the project.

(as you can see - the hotel room is getting to me)

[tamarian]

Originally Posted by The Geek

allrightallright. Its not exactly 3 tables AND there would be more I am sure (with refined and additional fields)... however I am sure you get the point.

Tell you what, ask Erwin and Xenon directly: 1) if they are willing to support this developemnt on vb.org and 2) if yes, when would they provide it.

I'd suspect a no, or no commitment, due to several reasons, most of them valid . If it's a yes (unlikely, IMHO), then the time would most likely be after 3.5 gold, and after all vb.org existing and planned hacks are back in place on 3.5. I personally think 3.5 gold is several months away.

In any case, I like the idea, no matter where it's placed. If you can have it up and running soon, you'd have lots of people jump in. If it drags on, I don't think anyone will rememebr

[The Geek]

I know what you mean.

Regardless, it could prove to be a useful mack for many sites that do dev and/or software work - therefore making it a 'not too shab of an idea' to work on regardless of vb.org's willingness to back it.

hmmmm. Food for thought

[tamarian]

Originally Posted by The Geek

I know what you mean.

Regardless, it could prove to be a useful mack for many sites that do dev and/or software work - therefore making it a 'not too shab of an idea' to work on regardless of vb.org's willingness to back it.

hmmmm. Food for thought

Yes, if could be useful to many sites, and they can integrate the effort into their own forums.

I think CVS is an integral part. We could easily integrate subversion or any of the popular online cvs tools into vB (provided the source tree is for the hack files, not vB files, for copyright/license reasons). Next is group permissions: This could use the built in group leader and join requets, plus a hack to allow group members mod rights over the groups thread in the specific forums (similiar to vb.org premium forums), to update the hack, attached files, edit documentation threads etc. Then the rest is for the role/permission implementation.

OR, use an existing online forge tool