Paid for mods from a non-coders POV

[RacerX]

I just finished reading the thread that was closed for abusiveness about Paid Hack/Mods. There was something I either missed or do not see in there and want to make a few comments of my own.

There was a lot of heated discussion about why paid for hacks should not be allowed at vbulletin.org. One thing that was cited was because everyone would want to charge.

I am not a coder and don't even know how to install hacks... I also don't plan on learning. I am pretty good at managing online communities but due to my real-world business I don't have time to do much else. Yes, I would like to learn but there are only so many hours in the day.

Here is where I am going with this... Both I and some of my close friends that have vB's have requested in the past to get hacks either ported or designed. Hell, we have even offered money to do it, and guess what... The response was PITIFUL! I don't know if everyone just got tired of creating custom hacks & or porting vb2 hacks but the results stink.

So, what do people like us do? We're not coders... We don't have the time to learn it... We have purchased vb and are willing to pay for services that others either DO NOT WANT TO DO or are INCAPABLE OF DOING. That is fair.. And I think that is where the rub is from this end of the road.

If the free hacks are no available, then I don't get why paid for hacks shouldn't be? Usually the paid hacks are more complex and time consuming and it is fair that someone gets money for their efforts.

Please don't take this as any type of flame post. I'm not mad... I'm just want everyone to see it from my point of view where paying for a hack is a heck of a lot better than not having one at all.

We've spent over $2,000 on custom work since January of this year. That is because the work we have had done is unique. Now, I can only imagine how much cheaper it would have been if the hacks were already available and being distributed widely. We wouldn't be the only one benefitting from a high-end custom banner advertising system through every forum and a host of other features.

I hope vB command will see that if you really want vB to continue being the powerhouse that most of us know and love, you will open the doors at least a little for an area where hackers will design really nice hacks for a reasonable price to those who want them BECAUSE the bottom line here is that most of us would rather pay than to never even have the option.

Thanks

hey hey.. i can't agree more...
(ok, i would have done these hacks you required btw.. lol)

hum... ok, i see here the point of a customer, this is cool/good... i hope this will be listened!

[RacerX]

I would like to add that if we didn't have to spend as much money having custom hacks designed specifically for us (which means we have to foot the bill of a good custom coder alone) we would then have more money to BUY more vBulletin licenses and implement new communities we have on the drawing board. Sure, we can now dupe some of the hack works, though there will still need to be new hacks created for niche areas.

This is only a guess, but I think that would go for other people as well. How many vb licenses does $2k buy? Or even $1,000? We have 4 communities on the drawing board but we can't afford to roll them all out.. Not with having to buy the vbulletin licenses, skin design AND completely custom hack work.

Honestly, I think it is a safe bet that there would be a lot of good coders putting in the hours for all sorts of really nice hacks, many that haven't even been thought up yet, if there was at least a little payback for them besides prestiege. Heck, $10.00 for a good hack (just a guess if it was being sold in bulk) would make the hacker happy and give us all options.

[MindTrix]

I think it is right NOT to have payed for hacks offered here because picture how people would feel seeing a hack released, going to get it and finding out there is a charge? People have payed for the bulletin board and expect everythign else to come free, because thats just how we are.

Yet there is nothing stopping you getting payed jobs done, theres forums here for it, people advertise that they will do private jobs in their sigs and everything so am i missing the point in this thread/argument/discussion?

[filburt1]

It is a matter of human nature. You want something, but you don't want to give up anything for it.

Personally, my opinion on the matter is that it is good for the community, although not necessarily in this implementation. Many people buy vBulletin directly due to features, no matter how big or small, that can be implemented through code modifications. This financially helps Jelsoft because more licenses are sold, product popularity increases, and the effect compounds.

To take it to the extreme, if the hacks were allowed here but an insertion fee or a commision of each sale (PayPal could be a processor and automatically deposit a cut to Jelsoft and direct the rest towards the modification author), Jelsoft would not only see an increase in license sales but a higher net profit per sale.

Finally, after paying $160 or even $85 for a product, many do not hesitate to pay less than $50 to add a major new feature to it such as a photo album, webmail, arcade, personal web hosting, whatever. I just don't see the logic in Jelsoft so steadfastly determined to block official channels of extending their product when it directly benefits them.

[Ghostsuit]

I think the point is what would be wrong with a forum that explicity says the hacks contained with in are charged for.

I personally totally agree with RacerX, I'm happy to pay someone to write a hack for me because it saves me time. People should not expect everything for free. I'm also confused why a paid hack can be discussed but the actual person creating the hack can't start one thread about it. :s

50$ for major features... many clients of me have paid a lot more only to have exclusive tools, or simply a better support on features they wanted to be enhanced from the board... and they are happy because they had what they requested and more (i always give unlimited support on my job)...

and yes, Jelsoft would gain a lot if they permit to have commercial tools released here or there, because i've had many clients that bought vBulletin just because i was able to build them special tools... they would not have bought vB if i would not have done the job... even if they paid twice the price of vB for the jobs done...

and no, not everyone would have to face the price when asking for a tool... don't you know reverse auction ?!

someone ask for a job to be done, and the client select the best price offered in the lot of coders answering the auction. if i find a cool request that i can do for free, i will be happy to make it free and answer the auction with a free tool... the code would be released and i would be more popular because i release good tools that answer the requests...

that's the way to build a reputation... not only because of the count of releases, but also count of the GOOD releases... a tool like Trader Rating can become a real good way to deal with coders... any client/requester can read the trade rating of a coder and evaluate if the guy is a solid, or a cheap hacker...

--nexia

[Andreas]

Seems to be a good idea Ghostsuit and I appreciate this.
Quite often I see requests for hacks that are a bit compilcated, eg. that require a fair amount of time to be coded
As nobody catches up these requests, they re-appear as service requests.

Now if one could code a hack and release it here for a small fee eveyone could benefit:
The original requestor would have to pay less, others could also use it - and the hack author could earn more money.

KirbyDE is right (Ghostsuit too) ... i would release more hacks here if i can advertise, and they would be mostly free because i can sell some/many... if i can't advertise, i have to sell them for a higher fee because i want to gain for the job done...

a good coder is always paid 50$/hour, so why not charge for that salary?... for a specific client, a request is different, as most of the reuqests i answer will never be asked from anyother user... but if a tool can be used for many, why not release it ?!... for free ?!... how would i pay the food for my childs ??? i code all day, and most of the time i do it for clients... if i release the tools for free, i will spare 15 hours/day of my time for nothing... this is my job, so i want to be paid, and the clients know it.

also... most of the commercial/non-free tools are bringing profits for the client... a banner system, a community journal or a global information feed... if you have banners on your site, we suppose it's not only to advertise your own site.. you make profits by adding banners... so when i built my sponsored/bannered forums system, i meant it for profits... so the guys are able to pay for it, because they will be paid back.

if you want to make a small modification on a display or function, i will never see someone requesting cash for the job because PHP is free itself... but building a complete tool require time and knowledge... and these two elements are payable in all jobs... so why complain ?! job is well done, we're happy and the client too!

[RacerX]

Originally Posted by MindTrix

I think it is right NOT to have payed for hacks offered here because picture how people would feel seeing a hack released, going to get it and finding out there is a charge? People have payed for the bulletin board and expect everythign else to come free, because thats just how we are.

Yet there is nothing stopping you getting payed jobs done, theres forums here for it, people advertise that they will do private jobs in their sigs and everything so am i missing the point in this thread/argument/discussion?

You were willing to pay for a quality forum script but after that everyone should have to work to modify that for free? That doesn't sound fair to me for those that are not profiting from vBulletin amd are doing a lot of work.

I understand we all like things that are free but free only goes so far. Free often yields poor results. Free doesn't seem to be getting those of us the hacks we want and need to be successsful with our communities a lot of the time. Yes, there are a lot of forums that are plain vanilla and that is great, but there are others that want to create a fully customized community. No harm in that, is there? I don't mean for a second that all hacks should be paid for hacks... I would be happy to see some very large ones free as well, but I would also like to see the ones that are paid hacks put on a public list so we can all decide.

Actually, part of the point I am pushing is that coders not being allowed to sell hacks here does two things as far as I can see. 1) It deters more coders from creating highly custom hacks, and 2) people like myself don't know what is available, which in turn prevents more coders from doing the work because the people who would be willing to pay for them might not know they exist.