The reputation of vb.org and coders here is bashed by Mr X...

In the last weeks, i was hit by bad reputations comments coming from some of my "new" clients, because they (12 and counting) were stolen by Mr.X ...

most of the client i had lately were persons who posted their "Requests For Paid Services" ... and were answered by "Mr. X"... he answered their requests and required to be paid before the release of the result... they ALL were frustrated by this guy because he never released the codes or works requested by the clients...

and lately, i've read in one thread here that his work was commented ... he himself tried to protect himself by making a story about stupid facts... but how 12 or more people can be tricked with a stupid fact each time?!

the clients i faced were all requesting to be refund, but they are not protected here... this is one of the place where i focus on security... Paid Services have to be protected someway for some reasons:
When a client is fooled,

• the whole community of coders is reputated to be tricky.
• the risk to have complaints grow each time... do we like flames?
• i loose a client, and maybe a good contact for the future.
• vbulletin.org have a growing reputation of non-secure work...

i know that a "lot" of discussions were written about a place for commercials and services, but really, i can say that it is the slowest process ever made on the internet?!... not a single result was given actually, and the debate will come again from time to time, because a lot of coders are touched by this situation, not only me...

i'm starting my own service for vBulletin admins, and actually, 5 or 6 (i have no memory) other coders from this site here are asking to join my company so they can provide services and resources commercially... is it what will be necessary ?!.. vbulletin coders deserting the boat to go elsewhere and be respected by the clients as fair coders? (actually i refused the offers, i'm a loner!)

i'm bored to be noted as a coder from a community where there is no security for my clients... my reputation is not touched because i have a longtime name on the internet, but when i talk to some clients about going asking for paid services on vb.org, they all refuse... reputation for the site is going down, and i don't care if you did not notice a thing... people are not coming back when they are fooled usually...

[Zachariah]

most of the client i had lately were persons who posted their "Requests For Paid Services" ... and were answered by "Mr. X"... he answered their requests and required to be paid before the release of the result... they ALL were frustrated by this guy because he never released the codes or works requested by the clients...

To be honest, it does not sound like the clients have very good business sense.

If I contract a deal with someone here at vBulletin.org (or anywhere) to do something to their site.
This is a 3rd party transaction with myself and a client.
vBulletin.org has nothing to do with it. (other than hosting the request)

If I put an AD out for a "Requests For Paid Services".
- It is my job to qualify the applicants for the job.

• An agreement is drawn up, and signed and dated by both parties.
• Create if needed a NDA.
• Understanding of services, price, time frame
• There are tons of free forms in pdf, doc to fill out.

Money is easy ~
- When I have a finished product in my hand you will see money.
- It's my money, and if you want my money, you will have to do what I want.
- There are a 1000's of other hungry coders with the same talent that will give me what I want with less lip.

It's bad that people got burnt.
It happens everyday to millions of people.
- buyer beware.

If there is bad deals then people should speak out.
When they don't then others that come to deal later also get burnt.

[high]* Zachariah goes back to code[/high]

[Smoothie]

Buyer beware, not just here, but everywhere. Lesson to be learned. Members who request paid services should first get references and search here to be sure this person is honest and intends to provide said services.

Escrow accounts work well for large jobs. The coder gets paid when services are renendered. Smaller jobs, 10% down or an amount agreed upon, the rest upon completion. If it smells too good, it probably is. Walk away. Just my own experience and opinion.

There should definitely be a feedback forum here about this. This way when a user searches, he or she can see who has received positive and negative feedback. Just like on ebanned. If someone gets neg feedback, they should try to get it resolved with the buyer to the best of their ability, or else the neg feedback stands.

@Zachariah... you have a large experience on the web market, you learned... and i'm sure you are not surprised by the lack of knowledge from the clients here that are not aware of all these details...

most of the time, forum owners are completely newbies about freelancers market and how to protect themselves...

one of the thing that was done lately was to add some stickies inside the paid services forum, but it is completely useless, because nobody read the stickies... a efficient alert in red and bold on top of the "New Thread" page would give some hints to everybody... basic rules like "never pay before you see the result"... "ask for a protected transaction on paypal or escrow systems"...

we can't rate coders who do a job here... and as an example of non-interventionism, even after 5 or 6 complaints about Mr. X inside the requests for jobs, there is nothing done about him... he is an example because someone complained about him today again... but there is more of these guys that are stealing people just because we are an opened community...

maybe the only solution will be to have a commercial website for vBulletin coders... actually Jelsoft is against it... someone can act on it...

[Dream]

People that use the paid request forum should be warned about now paying the coder before he releases the code, and that should be a rule for coders that user that forum too.

If people are not reading the stickies, do you think they will read anything else? Do you honestly think it would make any significant improvements? The staff understands the problems involved with the Service Request, but throwing some blinking bolded red warnings in the newthread template will not do anything.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink the water.

Sure, vBulletin.org can implement some features to help both parties, but when it comes down to it, it will be the clients responsibility to hire a reliable source and up to the coders to deliver the products they were hired to produce.

[Staxed]

Originally Posted by Dream

People that use the paid request forum should be warned about now paying the coder before he releases the code, and that should be a rule for coders that user that forum too.

I don't agree with this at all...full payment? heck no...but there is nothing wrong with paying a coder a certain % upfront.

I'm a designer...and I require between 10% and 50% upfront (depending on the size of the job)...why do I do this? because the scamming goes both ways...3 times i've done something for someone that took over a week...once worth in the $xxxx...and i was kind hearted and said they could pay me when done...well...they never paid. Granted i didn't give them the work...but still it wasted a week of my time...so saying that the coder should never ask for something upfront is just a little too harsh...

on my side, i use a very simple technique to protect myself:

when a client require a long job to be developped - something that takes me more than 20 minutes to do - i ALWAYS make a Paypal Invoice to the client before starting the job, and require to be paid before the client receive the job... it is a secure way to be paid, as Paypal will make the reclaims if the client does not pay me... if the client refuse to pay me via paypal with an official email, sorry, no service...