Can't they even have the decency?

[TeaTree]

Right,

I am starting to get a little peeved.This has nothing to do with vb.org staff, apart from the user Chris M.

Recently, i've had a couple of problems.One was that I needed some support on a mod from a member who shall remain nameless.I PM'd that user, and after 3 days I did not get a reply, even though the user had been on numerous times. So, I PM'd the user again and got a reply that said that they do not have time to help others with support for their hacks. Okay, I was a little peeved off but I took it-What annoyed me more then not getting the support I requested, but just being blatantly ignored until i had to send another PM. Anyway, I was going to ignore this matter until the day before yesterday

I had a general question about vbulletin.org which involved releasing one of my modifications, so I decided to PM Chris M, who I thought was a staff member that enjoyed helping others. Obviously again I was wrong, as I have not had a reply since then even though again this user is always on and has been on frequently since.

The point I am trying to put accross here is how can people learn without getting support from someone that can give it? I'm sure that they've had to have some help in their time, so why not help the next upcomimg members?

Now, there is all these threads from coders and staff how vbulletin.org is failing, and most are directed at the administrators. Really, I feel that it is the actual coders and moderators that are starting to make it fall down hill! All it would have taken was 2 minutes of their time for a simple reply, instead I just got ignored which I find very very rude, I wouldn't even have minded if they just sent a reply saying they do not have enough time anymore to be of assistance! So, before people start giving this bullshit having a go at admin's, they should take a look at themselves. Treat people like you'd like to be treated.

Now, This is definetly not everyone. Some generally want to help vbulletin.org get better. Xenon as an admin has definetly helped me in the past, as has Paul M as a coder.These are great people who deserve to be listened to, as well as many others. Some just need to buck up their ideas and let the staff do their jobs

Please let me just say again how this is not everyone-Some give all they have got to vbulletin.org and to them I am truly grateful-

Thanks

[Boofo]

I would like to apologize for what happened. We are working to correct things like this from happening in the future. And you are right, we all were at the beginning stage at one time. It's just that some of us don't like to remember that.

If you have any coding questions or any other questions for that matter, feel free to contact me either here on the site or in PM, and I will do whatever I can to help you.

[hambil]

I think I've mentioned this before, as have possibly others, but I think NeighHorse09's problem underscores some technical issues with the site, not just 'attitude problems'.

It is difficult to find support questions. I got so tired of sifting through threads that my tactic now is to search for posts with 0 replies and those are the only ones I answer.

I hope that the coder staff and the support staff can work together to improve this. I am willing to donate my time and skills to help develop or just contribute to the design of a better support system.

I want to help people, but it's actually harder than you might think due to volume of requests and lack of structure.

Also, out of curiosity, did the hack you asked for support on have the 'supported' box checked?

[ericgtr]

Aside from personal differences here, this can and will happen with some modifications. Sometimes people give up on them for one reason or another, the best we can hope is that they alert us of it by unchecking the supported box. As mentioned, there are a lot of requests for support.

However, I don't believe it's necessarily a moderators job to support other people's modifications and IMO that's expecting way more from them than their normal duties. I realize there have been some management issues going on here lately but they have takent their share of licks from everyone in this forum lately and most of the replies over the last week have been bending over backwards for the community.

All the threads that have been started in this forum have remained open for the bashing of staff. I can see the frustration a lot of the members (and staff) feel on this site but a lot of other sites would be closing them up and running much tighter moderation.

Straying back to the original comments made here, I can sympathize (and have been there myself) but there are always going to be instances where support completely drops for something where others don't want to pick it up. It's frustrating and unfortunate but will always happen.

[MPDev]

In general, I would prefer that users ask for support in the thread which the mod is stored; why? you might ask. Well, others can then benefit from the help, others may have an answer and the user could get a faster answer and I really don't consider "support" on a free modification to be one-on-one kind of thing. Waiting for a reply from me for a question which has already been addressed or can be addressed by the community faster only increases the chances that you will be disappointed.

2 minutes for every PM can add up if every user felt that their question needed to be handled by PMs.

Why not just ask your question in the thread?

[noppid]

Originally Posted by MPDev

In general, I would prefer that users ask for support in the thread which the mod is stored; why? you might ask. Well, others can then benefit from the help, others may have an answer and the user could get a faster answer and I really don't consider "support" on a free modification to be one-on-one kind of thing. Waiting for a reply from me for a question which has already been addressed or can be addressed by the community faster only increases the chances that you will be disappointed.

2 minutes for every PM can add up if every user felt that their question needed to be handled by PMs.

Why not just ask your question in the thread?

A PM for support is selfish. It wastes time and it contributes nothing to the thread. If we answer and later someone else has the same problem, "We" have to do the support again.

There is no argument someone looking for help can use to justify trying to get free support personally that should reflect badly on a coder.

This thread is one of the reasons why the coders around here feel unappreciated. People whining because they didn't get free personal attention.

The spirit of the org is supposed to be, here's a starting point, run with it. NOT, coders are here for you to use as free labor as you learn to code or build a business.

The org is not the only place to learn to code. Stop putting that on these folks shoulders like it is and you are entitled. There are no guarantees here either, never will be. Not for support, not for quality.

Can any of you get the idea that charity begins at home?

[hambil]

Originally Posted by noppid

A PM for support is selfish. It wastes time and it contributes nothing to the thread. If we answer and later someone else has the same problem, "We" have to do the support again.?

Nobody has ever pm'd me for support on one of my mods. If they did I would politely ask them to post in the hack thread so others can benifit from the solution. I would not just ignore them.

I get an email whenever someone pm's me, or posts in one of my threads, and unless I'm away from my computer I usually respond immediately - even if just to say "I can't get to this right now but I will look into it when I have some time."

[Paul M]

I get a number of PM'about support, I generally reply asking the person to post in the thread as it's much more sensible to do all support questions where everyone can see them.

[Ntfu2]

Originally Posted by noppid

A PM for support is selfish. It wastes time and it contributes nothing to the thread. If we answer and later someone else has the same problem, "We" have to do the support again.

There is no argument someone looking for help can use to justify trying to get free support personally that should reflect badly on a coder.

This thread is one of the reasons why the coders around here feel unappreciated. People whining because they didn't get free personal attention.

The spirit of the org is supposed to be, here's a starting point, run with it. NOT, coders are here for you to use as free labor as you learn to code or build a business.

The org is not the only place to learn to code. Stop putting that on these folks shoulders like it is and you are entitled. There are no guarantees here either, never will be. Not for support, not for quality.

Can any of you get the idea that charity begins at home?

Originally Posted by MPdev

In general, I would prefer that users ask for support in the thread which the mod is stored; why? you might ask. Well, others can then benefit from the help, others may have an answer and the user could get a faster answer and I really don't consider "support" on a free modification to be one-on-one kind of thing. Waiting for a reply from me for a question which has already been addressed or can be addressed by the community faster only increases the chances that you will be disappointed.

2 minutes for every PM can add up if every user felt that their question needed to be handled by PMs.

Why not just ask your question in the thread?

What these guys said

and

Alot, of coders refuse to answer support PMs, getting all mad and stuff because someone wouldnt have a nice 1 on 1 support session with you for something that is probably user error to begin with is assine.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by hambil

Nobody has ever pm'd me for support on one of my mods. If they did I would politely ask them to post in the hack thread so others can benifit from the solution. I would not just ignore them.

I get an email whenever someone pm's me, or posts in one of my threads, and unless I'm away from my computer I usually respond immediately - even if just to say "I can't get to this right now but I will look into it when I have some time."

Wait till your have 5 or more in your box every visit and get back to me. I can appreciate your point of view now, I was once that way too. But I do have other responsibilities.

My ability to hang out and support every request I get has decreased propotionatly to how my responsibilities have grown. I got in this business for a reason. When I started I had more free time. Now my time is spent making sure I have an income primarilly. I have to eat ya know. Seed money only goes so far and then your have to actually succeed.

I dunno if you can call what I have success, but it pays the bills. That's got to be my priority now and thus, sometimes there just isn't time to help. Then it gets to be overwhelming. It happenes here on a regular cycle. Some of the names are historical.

I may not seem like it to most, but it's a sign of their success that they had to move on. I saw someone say so eloquently in another thread, please be sure to thank them and wish them well as they exit. That's a good idea IMO.

I hope you have that or get it. I'm sure trying my best.

Here's a thought for those that are here and will come here. Embarace the code, not the coder. Surely you should appreciate the coder, however the code is why you are here, face it.

Get involved in the code. Answer the questions about the hack you can,save the coder 5 minutes. Learn the hack. read the instructions, read um again. Test the features, even if it's one you think you won't use. Post in the hack thread, thank the author. Click install. Now do it all again.

Most of the problems here lie in the sense of entitlement that this is the place to come for finished products. That may be the case in some instances, but it's not what the org is.

The org is, IMO, a place for ideas. A place to learn. These things occur by participation and desire.

This place has turned into a glorified free downloads site for vBulletin owners. When there is no participation other then a few folks that can make the time to provide help and publish hacks, thing can stagnate. It's not fair to make demands on them though or you wind up with ticked off coders.

Things have to open up more in the free hack world too. I'm guilty of this, but I regconize that the attitude we own a hack and are the only coder stiffles development. To post a hack here it should be open source and branches allowed. In fact branches should be encouraged with the original work referenced.

Until an open source feel is created, development ideas and implemented ideas will continue to be guided by a select few and there will be no incentive for others to learn to code if they can't use the existing code base to learn from by example.

So, what do we have here, a showcase for egotistical coders or a basis for ideas coded for vBulletin enhancement that are free to take and run with in the name of community development?