vBulletins plugin system

[Markowitch]

Hi vBulletin.org

I am a technical administrator of a board that is running a phpBB2 portal system with all sort of mods and hacks installed. I am really really frustrated with phpBB2 for one reason - the lack of a plugin system. That is why I am considering vBulletin. After having read the documentation for v. 3.5.1, I saw that products (or plugins as I would call them) are easily registered and deregistered in the administration part of vBulletin and there is a strait forward api for upgrading and uninstalling plugins

I never fully figured the difference between a mod and a hack in phpbb2 and I know this is not the place ask. But, commen to them both, is that they only can be applied in phpBB2 by messing with the core system php files. This "sollution" - if you can call it that - makes it very difficult to upgrade the site when security patches are released. Further, applying new mods becomes timeconsuming. The more mods, the more work patching - it is a nightmare and a recipe for disaster and takes alot of my time!! :angry:

I hope very much that vBulletin can be extended by only using plugins and the product manager. Thus making it possible to patch the core vBulletin system files easy because they are not tainted all over by hacks.

So my question is, can every extension of vBulletin be done in the framework of the plugin system, or do I have to modify vBulletin system files if I need e.g. a portal? If the answer is negative. How can I be convinced that security patching won't become a real time consumer?

ohh btw. Here is a quote from Fritz Onion that wrote a series of articles at pluralsight about MFC.

While this methods works, it violates the open/closed principle of leaving
code open to extension but closing it to modification.

Looking forward to read your answers

[soniceffect]

From someone who has only just upgraded to 3.5.1 from the previous 3.5.0 .. Which is indeed a fix for security reasons as you have specified is half of your problem .. I can give you a basic idea ... My forum is 'hacked to high hell' all of which would have in previous versions php file edits ....

Previous versions - Estimated time to upgrade I would guess at a 2 - 3 hours, and I have a pretty good idea what I`m doin..

Current version that I upgraded from 3.5.0 to 3.5.1 along with hacks/mods ... 10 mins tops ...

If this is the reason you are thinking of upgrading to Vbulletin .. Then upgrade...

On top of this, as a former phpbb user and ibpro user, vbulletin (excuse my french) pi$$es all over them and makes them look like childrens toys... If you want power at your fingertips, excellent support from both staff and members here, plenty of mods, and the best bulletin board software, then purchase it .... Vbulletin is in my opinion, always an upgrade from any other system.

EDIT:- On the note of editing extentions .. This can also be done though the plugin system, as the plugins are simply php code that runs at a particular place within the vbulletin script, and is editable via the admin control panel.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Originally Posted by Markowitch

So my question is, can every extension of vBulletin be done in the framework of the plugin system, or do I have to modify vBulletin system files if I need e.g. a portal? If the answer is negative. How can I be convinced that security patching won't become a real time consumer?

Unfortunatly not every imaginable modification can (currently) be done with a plugin. But coders are really trying hard to keep their hacks edit free, or with only a minimum of edits.

Also new hooks (locations to attach a Plugin) are considered by Jelsoft for each new release, based on the input by the coding community.

You can have a look at our 3.5 Modification forum. You will see for eahc hack if file edits are needed or not. I think 90% go without file edits.

[Markowitch]

Originally Posted by soniceffect

Current version that I upgraded from 3.5.0 to 3.5.1 along with hacks/mods ... 10 mins tops ...

Wow, thats truly worth 160$!! When I started this forum Admin business my first priority was to get value for money. So I used phpBB, which is free - great value for money it would seem... Later on as I became more demanding I learned about total cost of ownership - which is high for a system like phpBB, because I use a lot of time on trivial tasks, that I know somehow would have been more easy to do If the system was'nt littered all over by "page edits"... Seen in that perspective 160$ is not that much if it can reduce time used on trivial tasks..

Thanks for the input

Originally Posted by MarcoH64

coders are really trying hard to keep their hacks edit free, or with only a minimum of edits.

I'm very pleased to hear that "page edits" is a benchmark for a "hack". I would prefer the word "plugin" if the extension did'nt require page edits, and reserve the word "hack" for those extensions that require page edits. Thus using the word "hack" to signal that the extension somehow violates the intentions of the extension framework.

Originally Posted by MarcoH64

Also new hooks (locations to attach a Plugin) are considered by Jelsoft for each new release, based on the input by the coding community.

Again, sweet music in my ears. The developers seem to have focus on edit free extensions - great! This is the way to go

Originally Posted by MarcoH64

You can have a look at our 3.5 Modification forum. You will see for eahc hack if file edits are needed or not. I think 90% go without file edits.

Great!! Thanks for the feedback

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Originally Posted by Markowitch

I'm very pleased to hear that "page edits" is a benchmark for a "hack". I would prefer the word "plugin" if the extension did'nt require page edits, and reserve the word "hack" for those extensions that require page edits. Thus using the word "hack" to signal that the extension somehow violates the intentions of the extension framework.

The word 'hack' is somehow historical. The Plugin system was introduced in vBulletin 3.5 (now a few months in a production version). Until version 3.5 file edits where needed for most additions/modifications. The word 'hack' became a synonym for modifcation/addition/extension, and is still the most used word to describe a modification (modification as in modify functionality, not modify files). I guess it will take a while until this word is replaced by a word that sounds a bit more friendly to new members of the community.