Angry .Orgers

[The Geek]

Haven't been about as much lately since the whole "you are evil because you are going commercial" threads kicked off a few months ago.

I popped in today and was browsing about appalled to see the same mentality and anger toward people who decide that their time and investment should be met with something equal from the people who benefit from it.

In other words - a lot of angry .orgers with a mob mentality toward anything remotely commercial (although ironic that vB isn't lumped into this).

What is up? Sure, OK, .orgers rules: hear no commercial, see no commercial, speak no commercial - however I think its ridiculous to get all agro because someone who released something free then decides that its not worth his time continuing the process unless he gets something out of it. The funniest thing is that most agro/bullying in these situations come from people who do not contribute to .org, they are just users.

Please guys, not everyone can be devoted to code the hours of a part time job for you for free. Cut some people some slack otherwise you are going to have less and less talent here and more and more unfinished or half assed projects. It is true on many levels that you generally get what you pay for

On a similar note, it was discussed at some length ways to provide avenues for commercial and free scripts here. I'm not wanting to stir that up again - however this was awhile ago. Any further progress? I guess your priority is to upgrade to 3.5X first.

Really odd to see the 'ultimate (but only if its free) resource for vB' be on an outdated version. Kind of like going to a MS convention watching them demo on Windows 98 boxes (what kind of message does that send customers!)

Anyhooo - cant we all get along. There is a hell of a lot more in the world to get uptight about than 'hey, this guy was secretly planning on holding the world to ransom when his script came out of beta! He OWES US a final!' - many times people dont plan things that way - life somtimes just changes things.

(let the flames begin :tired: )

[Boofo]

I don't agree, but to each his own.

If we allow commercial hacks to take over, there won't be very many free ones anymore and the spirit that this site was founded on, will diminish. Once coders see others making a profit, they will decide they can too, then the free hack days will be over.

As far as time and invetsment goes, there have been a lot of great coders here that have mnade extensive hacks in the past that never gave a second thought about trying to making a buck out of it. They shared and learned here for free and felt like giving something back to the community.

Just my 3 1/2 cents worth.

[The Geek]

Well, I dont want to get into the debate over org should allow paid scripts or not since thats about as volatile as Tastes Great vs. Less Filling (and about as easy to resolve). However I will say that I think giving commercial coders a voice will actually bring more quality products to vB. You can only take free ones so far. Just like you could only do something for charity for x hours per week (even if you loved it) you still need to eat!

I also have to say that while some people learn some of their skill coding here - most do not and regardless - they are the ones that learned it. The old 'you owe us because you learned it here' is a messed up

And yes, I was one of those that spent a year producing gargantuan macks FOC because I enjoyed it - however life moves on and I had to as well (either go commercial or dont produce anymore at all). It was a hard choice - however one I am glad I made now. No, I dont think ill be buying a new mousemat anytime soon however at least those that are my customers appreciate my time as I do theirs.

Thanks

[Boofo]

True, but appreciation doesn't need to have dollar signs attached to it to mean something.

[The Geek]

You are right - then maybe vB should be released on .org for free

Boofo - You do what you do here for FOC (I assume). That benefits the community. However clearly you can not do this full time as you have real life commitments. Moderating here full time at no charge would mean that you would live in a Sony 36" television box next to I-80. I do what I can do FOC for here and that benefits the community. However for me to be able to do MORE then what I do now (and what I have done in the past) means something else must give and that something else is users paying for work that I otherwise would not have been able to produce FOC.

Anyhooo. This is quickly dwindling down the abyss of 'Good guys = hobbyist while bad guys = professionals' which is what I wanted to avoid. The ironic and altruistic idealogy gives me tummy ache.

What I was trying to say is that some Angry .orgers should chill a bit because its hurting The Ultimate Resource for vB.

Thanks

[Boofo]

As a matter of fact, I do moderate here and code almost fill-time now as my real life committments are at a stand-still at present and I don't live in a Sony Box anymore as I have moved up to a Westinghouse Refrigerator box with a lot more room.

As far as any angry vb.orgers goes, that won't go away anytime soon, I'm afraid. The issue or making money on hacks on the org is a touchy and sore subject for a lot of people, as we have both seen. There are a lot of coders out there making money from paid hacks that don't use the org to advertise or peddle their wares. I think that is the real issue in all of this. Not so much the paid hacks as using the org to get buyers for them. There has been a few bait and hook schemes going on as of late and it seems to be winding down now, which is good. Maybe now we can get back to the way things used to be and start having fun and learning and sharing again.

[The Geek]

Yea, fair enough. It is a touchy subject on both sides and while I disagree with some of the rules regarding commercial scripts here, I understand and respect the decision. I guess I just feel the need to stand up for people who are suddenly deemed to be evil because they need to actually make something from the work they do. I hate mob mentalities and empathy loss no matter where I see it.

Congrats on the move. Ive been eyeing that model for some time now!

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by The Geek

Yea, fair enough. It is a touchy subject on both sides and while I disagree with some of the rules regarding commercial scripts here, I understand and respect the decision. I guess I just feel the need to stand up for people who are suddenly deemed to be evil because they need to actually make something from the work they do. I hate mob mentalities and empathy loss no matter where I see it.

Congrats on the move. Ive been eyeing that model for some time now!

As long as debates are around, you'll always have some sort of mob mentality, it can't be avoided. That's what makes debating so interesting, I guess.

And thanks on the congrats. My job here at the org has allowed me to move up in my living conditions. See? There are perks for being on the Staff here.

[Regs]

I said this previously elsewhere - The code for vB has grown up, it would be nice if the community here did as well.

I think we are all taking this way to heavily. If a coder decides to offer hacks, wheather it's commercial or not, it is still benefiting vBulletin as a software. vB.org, however, is not the place to distribute commercial modifications; it's that simple. I don't know why this is causing so much debate. If you don't feel like a hack should cost money, then the only option is to code an equal or better modification for free.

The Geek, you are an excellant coder and I appreciate your work on vbulletin. I've used a couple of your paid modifications, and they are great tools.

The Geek should not be judged for making a decision on his code. If he feels like he should be earning money for his hard work, that's his choice.


That's just my personal opinion.