[Debate] - Religion

[sunzfan]

yes. i thougt i covered the concept of truth though. and the word "Religion" should probably be better defined. christianity is a belief in jesus christ and the bible - not a belief in a series of rules or regulations.

[Cary]

Interesting thread...

Basicly from what I've been reading so far I agree with what sunzfan has posted. Just like the war example earlier, how do you know George Washington really existed? You don't. The same applies with ANY religion - you can't be 100 percent sure any God exists under any religion... just as Erwin pointed out earlier.

As for Boofo's comment pointing out that the Bible was written by 12 drunk men, I agree with sunzfan classifying it has the most retarded statement he's ever read.... (and FWIW, he wasn't insulting anybody, Filburt. Boofo was the one with the insulting statement. All sunzfan said was that statement was retarded)

This is all I'm going to post for now... I've got to run, but you can count that I'll keep be keeping up with this thread now...

[PixelFx]

lol, thank god for vbulletin.org :P *cough* its a godsend no pun :P

as for religion, each to their own,

if god is there, and your a good person, ITS ALL GOOD, if he isn't you die, poof your gone, no more playing with vbulletin.org ...

nuff said :P

[sunzfan]

haha. if it were only that simple. don't matter if you're a good person or not. nothing we've done on this earth can ever be good enough - which is why we needed the personal attonment of Jesus Christ. So to re-word,

if God through grace, sent a perfect person, then IT'S ALL GOOD

[Boofo]

Cary, what I said was that the Bible was supposedly written by the 12 apostles (or disciples as the wife just pointed out and she also pointed out that they only wrote part of the bible, so I stand corrected on that part. My articulation is a little off at times). But in those days they drank a lot of wine and that is what I was referring to. I did not insult anyone in this thread. I just stated my beliefs. So retarded is still a wrong word to use just because I don't adhere to your beliefs.

As far as George Washinton goes, I tend to believe that a little more than translating a language that has been obsolete for so many years and has been translated in too many different ways already. Plus the bible is full of contradictions, (i.e. "Thou shall not kill" and "an eye for an eye"). And how many of you have posted on a Sunday. The 10 Commandments?

[Cary]

But in those days they drank a lot of wine and that is what I was referring to.

Okay.

I did not insult anyone in this thread. I just stated my beliefs.

Think again!

So retarded is still a wrong word to use just because I don't adhere to your beliefs.

Just making sure you understand... he didn't call you retarded - he called the statement retarded... which is only an opinion.

Plus the bible is full of contradictions, (i.e. "Thou shall not kill" and "an eye for an eye").

Usually people who say 'The Bible is full of contradictions' don't even make an effort to read the Bible at all. Do a little reading and you'll see in the Old Testament times Moses instructed the people with "An Eye for an Eye" to prevent retribution and revenge. During those times people were killing other people in revenge for other acts (of lesser value) to them.

Moses then said, ?If you must have revenge, let it be no more than what was done to you.? "Eye for an Eye" wasn't for personal revenge, but through the courts in those days.

And how many of you have posted on a Sunday. The 10 Commandments?

What has this got to do with anything?

[Boofo]

Think again!

Stating an opinion is different than insulting. Calling someone's opinions or beliefs retarded because they differ from your own, that's insulting. You need to think again.

Just making sure you understand... he didn't call you retarded - he called the statement retarded... which is only an opinion.

Read the above statement.

Usually people who say 'The Bible is full of contradictions' don't even make an effort to read the Bible at all. Do a little reading and you'll see in the Old Testament times Moses instructed the people with "An Eye for an Eye" to prevent retribution and revenge. During those times people were killing other people in revenge for other acts (of lesser value) to them.

Okay, since my wife's father is an ordained Minister in the Methodist church, I'll give you some examples I got from her, that she learned from him and from reading the Bible while growing up. If you take the King James version of the Bible and compare it to the Living Bible, there are instances over and over again where words are changed and the meaning is completely different, depending on the version. There is evidence that entire chapters and even books have been omitted from the original because they were not found until after the first publication of the Bible was printed. Another example of contradictions is slavery. In biblical times people were encourage to keep slaves, but in today's society you would be arrested for doing so.

Moses then said, ?If you must have revenge, let it be no more than what was done to you.? "Eye for an Eye" wasn't for personal revenge, but through the courts in those days.

If this was through the courts in those days, then why is anyone against the death penalty as a punishment for murder? Isn't that an eye for an eye? You took someones life so the court will take yours?

What has this got to do with anything? [/B]

One of the commandments is "You shall honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy." Working, cooking, cleaning etc. are forbidden on the Sabbath because it is a day of rest. In modern times orthodox christians do not even answer their phones or let their children watch television or play computer games on Sunday and I fail to see that posting messages on the internet is any different from that.

One final note, prove to me, if you can, that the Bible wasn't written by 12 drunks sitting around the table. You cannot prove that anymore than you can that it was written by more than forty people over many years time. People write novels in todays times that are longer than the Bible was, some in as few as 6 months, all by themselves. So it's not impossible for even one person to have written the Bible if you really want to get down to being able to prove anything. The Bible is basically a belief, if you choose to believe, then the Bible is for you, but as you get older, and you've been around a bit and you've seen people die in war, and you've caused some of those deaths yourself, you start to question God in all his infinite wisdom. If he's all so powerful, why does he allow it to happen to some people and not to others? Why, when we came back from Vietnam, was it so easy for people of the church to forgive us for what we had to do over there? If I had done the same thing here, I doubt very seriously I would have been forgiven by anybody. You explain that one.

[Cary]

Stating an opinion is different than insulting. Calling someone's opinions or beliefs retarded because they differ from your own, that's insulting. You need to think again.

umm... it was an opinion. (both yours and sunzfan's) - but if you find sunzfan's post offensive, keep in mind, whether you realize it or not, I find your post offensive.

Okay, since my wife's father is an ordained Minister in the Methodist church, I'll give you some examples I got from her, that she learned from him and from reading the Bible while growing up. If you take the King James version of the Bible and compare it to the Living Bible, there are instances over and over again where words are changed and the meaning is completely different, depending on the version. There is evidence that entire chapters and even books have been omitted from the original because they were not found until after the first publication of the Bible was printed. Another example of contradictions is slavery. In biblical times people were encourage to keep slaves, but in today's society you would be arrested for doing so.

Could you send me some examples, please?

If this was through the courts in those days, then why is anyone against the death penalty as a punishment for murder? Isn't that an eye for an eye? You took someones life so the court will take yours?

Please reread what I posted two posts above this one.

One of the commandments is "You shall honor the Sabbath day and keep it holy." Working, cooking, cleaning etc. are forbidden on the Sabbath because it is a day of rest. In modern times orthodox christians do not even answer their phones or let their children watch television or play computer games on Sunday and I fail to see that posting messages on the internet is any different from that.

The Bible emphasizes that the requirement to keep the Sabbath is no longer nessecary. When Jesus died on the Cross he saved us from our sins.

Ephesions 2:13-15

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have become near by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, he who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of enmity, through his flesh,

abolishing the law with its commandments and legal claims, that he might create in himself one new person 9 in place of the two, thus establishing peace,

Colossians 2:14-16

obliterating the bond against us, with its legal claims, which was opposed to us, he also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross;

despoiling the principalities and the powers, he made a public spectacle of them, leading them away in triumph by it. 7

Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or sabbath. 8

One final note, prove to me, if you can, that the Bible wasn't written by 12 drunks sitting around the table.

Once again, here you go offending people again...

You cannot prove that anymore than you can that it was written by more than forty people over many years time. People write novels in todays times that are longer than the Bible was, some in as few as 6 months, all by themselves. So it's not impossible for even one person to have written the Bible if you really want to get down to being able to prove anything. The Bible is basically a belief, if you choose to believe, then the Bible is for you, but as you get older, and you've been around a bit and you've seen people die in war, and you've caused some of those deaths yourself, you start to question God in all his infinite wisdom.

Once again, it all comes down to faith. You cannot prove that George Washington existed.

As for your last comments:

God doesn't make us have problems just for the heck of it. Most "bad" things which happen do so because God gives a underlying freedom to His people - we are free people, not puppets on a string. He doesn't cause bad things to happen. He loves us and grieves with us.

I've got to run at the moment, however, if you would like for me to elaborate a bit more on this later, let me know.

[Boofo]

No, I'm done. This is why I don't like to debate religion or politics. I won't in the future. Too many people think they know more than they really do about both subjects. It's all yours now.

[Cary]

Tell me about it...