vbulletin has gotten so quiet

[Logician]

You may find Amy's comment harsh but we should all see the facts in it.

Everybody should understand that hackers are the core of this community. They share their work here without any commercial intentions and we, site management, do our best to encourage them keep doing so.

But hackers are not Jelsoft employee, they are not here to support you or they don't see you as "paid customers" who have right to "demand" things. As a matter of fact they are just helping you by sharing a hack here and except a few "wow nice hack!" or "thanks a lot!" they have literally no benefit of doing so. Many hackers does not even share their hacks because they don't want to spend time writing installation manuals or even the hack thread itself. Some stopped sharing hacks because someone came into their thread and said "the hack sucks" or "User A has a better version" and the hacker started asking himself "why am I spending my time for such people".

So yes, this community is a leech community. This is the characteristic of this community and we can not change it. Our best bet is to understand this characteristic well and behave accordingly to not to kill this community. Everybody has a responsibility in this mission. Hackers should be more easy going, understanding and helpful as much as they can. We appreciate and respect them, moreover we need them. Non-hackers should be more appreciative and undemanding. The site management should find the best balance between these 2 groups and encourage hackers as much as they can to convince them keep sharing their hacks.

But whatever we all do, all should accept that this community will never become a sitepoint. The characteristic of the sites are way different.

[Floris]

Originally Posted by Logician

You may find Amy's comment harsh but we should all see the facts in it.

Everybody should understand that hackers are the core of this community. They share their work here without any commercial intentions and we, site management, do our best to encourage them keep doing so.

But hackers are not Jelsoft employee, they are not here to support you or they don't see you as "paid customers" who have right to "demand" things. As a matter of fact they are just helping you by sharing a hack here and except a few "wow nice hack!" or "thanks a lot!" they have literally no benefit of doing so. Many hackers does not even share their hacks because they don't want to spend time writing installation manuals or even the hack thread itself. Some stopped sharing hacks because someone came into their thread and said "the hack sucks" or "User A has a better version" and the hacker started asking himself "why am I spending my time for such people".

So yes, this community is a leech community. This is the characteristic of this community and we can not change it. Our best bet is to understand this characteristic well and behave accordingly to not to kill this community. Everybody has a responsibility in this mission. Hackers should be more easy going, understanding and helpful as much as they can. We appreciate and respect them, moreover we need them. Non-hackers should be more appreciative and undemanding. The site management should find the best balance between these 2 groups and encourage hackers as much as they can to convince them keep sharing their hacks.

But whatever we all do, all should accept that this community will never become a sitepoint. The characteristic of the sites are way different.

It wasn't a leech community when I first joined

[amykhar]

O.k. I'll be the first to admit that I was blunt and probably hurt some feelings. I also understand that this site is going the way Jelsoft wants it to go - free addons for their customers and somebody dreaming up new features for future versions.

The comment was that this community is quiet. My response was that it's because the core members who used to hang out and socialize are basically gone - with their hacks - because the site isn't FOR them anymore.

Watch the who's online at this place sometimes. You don't see people reading the coding information. You don't see many of them looking to chat with other vbulletin owners. They come, grab the code, and leave.

Now, I'm not saying non-coders aren't welcome here and I agree that a great way to learn to code is to study things done by others and then to modify that code slightly. I am not whining about new coders. Bring em on.

Boofo was one once. Rose was. I was. I learned a hell of a lot from reading Wayne Luke's work and Logician's stuff and even chen's.

The key to making this community work is to CONTRIBUTE. If you can't code, help in other ways. Sinecure couldn't code for beans but he helped others with templates, graphics and other things that he knew.

If you want this to be a community, make it one. Quit whining that coders aren't nice to you and that people haven't ported the hacks that you want. Figure out what YOU can do personally to make VB.org better, and do it.

Amy

[13th_Disciple]

much better post, amy.. and a post i believe everyone here can understand and deal with..

however template talk ain't allowed here.. which is one of the reasons i also think this site has gotten less action.. not that vbt has gotten more, or less, but having everything so spread out is a royal pain in the caboose.. that also deters from any feeling of community and also only goes to further the leech mentality..

now about the hacks and providers.. i try to answer folks if they are looking for something, i try and do my part my maybe commenting when someone asks what should be in a good whatever kind of hack.. and so do a majority of the "regulars" here.. but you can't just expect folks to contribute even so much as a thought if they see that some of the hack providers are not only asses, but not willing to update their own stuff, lend a hand if it gets screwy, so on and so on.. now that's not to say they are responsible for anyones own personal install.. but common decency goes a very long way..

err.. much more to say.. now i have to attend to a virus that has just shown up.. good day..

[sabret00the]

Amy it's not that anyone misunderstood your post, and you done a nice job of repeating yourself, but the last paragrah wasn't needed and ruined an otherwise good post, the funny thing is that it's mostly the non-coders who stuck around here where as the coders seem to have left. i mean you left yourself when vB3 was in beta stating in one of your post you had started vB3 coding yet you've come back and not released (which is totally upto you and no ones saying you had to but taking that into consideration, i fail to see your contributions, other than 'whining' about the posts being made here) 8/10 people i see posting in the lounge on a regular basis help when they can coder or non-coder.

and if your reference about 'whining' about hacks not being released, was directed at something i made, then being that this is a lounge for admins to chit-chat and it was posted her, i fail to see where the whining was in context, sometimes people just like to talk about stuff, i know i do hence the nature the forums i run.

* sabret00the thinks girls just wanna have fun:ermm:

[Velocd]

There is no reason to persist the petty insults in this discussion. Keep it appropriate, constructive criticism per se.

[sabret00the]

my apologies, i really didn't mean to insult anyone, hence me adding the last line in a bid to lighten up the subject matter.

i'd also like to add that respect amy and all the active participants of this community past and present despite any disagreements i've had, many are able to code to a level i can only dream of and eveything i've learn't in regards to coding, i've done so with the help of this site.

[Logician]

Originally Posted by floris

It wasn't a leech community when I first joined

Then what was it Floris?

In this community there is always 2 group of people: Hackers who release hacks, non-hackers who downloads them. Or non-hackers who asks helps and hackers who provides help. This was so in the first day this site is built. It is so now. And it will be so in the future.

I don't use the word "leech community" in a bad form. It shouldn't need to have a bad meaning. It is just the characteristic of this board that is it. My personal forum is a law site and it is a leech community either. There are a group of lawmen and people who join board to get free advice from lawyers and judges. So my own board is also a leech community. Being a leech community itself is not bad, some forums just have to be so. But it becomes bad if we deny it or not understand it well, because then we can not provide solutions to make the site better.

My point was that due to the characteristic of this site, it is not fair to compare here with sitepoint.

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by sabret00the

my apologies, i really didn't mean to insult anyone, hence me adding the last line in a bid to lighten up the subject matter.

i'd also like to add that respect amy and all the active participants of this community past and present despite any disagreements i've had, many are able to code to a level i can only dream of and eveything i've learn't in regards to coding, i've done so with the help of this site.

And you are a hell of a template modder, my friend. One of the best as far as I am concerned.

[Erwin]

And you are not so bad youself, Mr Boofo sir.