Sarkozy: Burkha is not welcome in France!

[UKBusinessLive]

Wow thanks

You've explained what i wanted to know and a great reply -Thanks

So there are different "levels" in the Muslim religion, The less strict Muslims and the more Stricter Muslims. So the More westernised Mulsims will be the less stricter sect, but still muslims never the less.

I suppose the majority of those that move to a predominately Catholic/Christian Country would be the muslims that wear western clothes and want to have equal rights for men and women.

I would Imagine that the muslims that have moved to western countries have done so because they were persecuted in their homeland for whatever reason.

I'm all for any religion living their life as they should but if they chose to remove themselves from that enviroment, is it fair to expect the host country to make special allowances and provisions for them??

I mean i like to drink in moderation of course, but if i go on holiday to Saudi Arabia, would it be fair of me to expect the Saudi Government to make an exception in my case??

Thanks again and i hope my questions are taken in the gist which they are intended

Thanks buddy

[Sayid]

As I said,

Drink is forbidden .It is not easy one like smoking. So, it is against to the Islamic rule which is at the same time , Saudi Arabia's rules .

You may see people who smoke in the street. But drink is never allowed.

you will ask why ?

Because drink in Islam is called "mother of rotters" which means that the human loses his mind temporally and this may lead him to kill others or himself or his children , do fornicate ..etc.

Yes there are people here who abscond drinks . and unfortunately, we listen some soul-destroying histories about their murders and so on..

Thanks for your reading and respecting others' arguments

[Tauhid]

Originally Posted by Sayid

Third

Tauhid's

Are you really Muslim ?



This is basic in Islam even non Muslims know that Hijab is a must.

I think [not sure] you can read Arabic

see this :

http://www.khayma.com/ftat/SH/adelah.HTM

In conclusion, I and all people who can mind will disagree with such rule ..

Sayid

I am quite stunned to see you doubt that I am a Muslim or not. My name on this forum is Tauhid which also means "Allah is one", what makes you think that I would sign up in a account just to diss my own religion. I can read Arabic, I finished reading the Koran around 3 times during my childhood. However, I do not understand the meaning of Arabic words.

http://www.mideastweb.org/Middle-Eas...edia/burqa.htm

Read that above article, Burkhas are not mandatory for all Muslims, burkhas are labelled as mandatory in certain countries where the women should wear it once they are outside of their house and close to the public eye. I know this because I was taught in this belief all my life and I am more than sure that the Imams and around 6 Islamic Teachers who taught me all these years are not mistaken.

Lastly, dont take it otherwise but you are showing your lack of knowledge when comparing the Hijab with the Burkha. Hijab is only used to cover the face of a woman whereas Burkhas are used to cover the complete body of the woman. As I said, muslim clerics's family members always wear Burkhas or Hijabs when they are outside of their homes, at least in my country. Why I know Burkhas are not mandatory? Because more than half the Muslim Population around the world (Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Indonesia) all have no mandatory clothing for Muslim Women to wear Hijab/Burkhas. They have their own traditional clothing such as Salwar Kameez and Saree. Burkhas are originated from the Arabic Nations.

Anyways, let wikipedia do all the talking, I quote from the following link:

Many Muslims believe that the Islamic holy book, the Qur'an, and the collected traditions of the life of Muhammed, or hadith, require both men and women to dress and behave modestly in public. However, this requirement, called hijab, has been interpreted in many different ways by Islamic scholars (ulema) and Muslim communities (see Women and Islam); the burqa is not specifically mentioned in the Quran.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa

We all can find a lot more about Women in Islam and the dresscodes in the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_Islam

[UKBusinessLive]

Thanks Tauhid, for your respnse

Did you know about the different levels of Muslims??, The reason i'm asking is that i've been watching the problem in Iran lately and for quite a strict country, even with their own religious police, There dosn't seem to be many women wearing Burkha's, Yes a scarf over their head, but with the full face showing.

Even the CNN reporters wear the same out of respect.

But, In the demonstrations held outside the Iranian Embassy in London, You see Iranian Women the dressed the same as Western women.

I guess only a small percentage of the more Stricter sect must make women wear these Burkhas, and as its been stated these originated from from Saudi Arabia, where the woman are no way treated as equal.

Thanks

[Sayid]

I do not understand the meaning of Arabic words.

Then you acknowledge that you do not understand Arabic words !

And you have to know that Burkhas and Hijab are translated from Arabic language that you do not understand its words !!

So I understand Arabic and sorry about that question. do not misunderstand me .

I mean Islamic definition of Hijab which is covering the whole body

And my advice to you to get your religion rubrics from authoritative sites. Not from that pathetic article

[Tauhid]

Originally Posted by UKBusinessLive

Thanks Tauhid, for your respnse

Did you know about the different levels of Muslims??, The reason i'm asking is that i've been watching the problem in Iran lately and for quite a strict country, even with their own religious police, There dosn't seem to be many women wearing Burkha's, Yes a scarf over their head, but with the full face showing.

Even the CNN reporters wear the same out of respect.

But, In the demonstrations held outside the Iranian Embassy in London, You see Iranian Women the dressed the same as Western women.

I guess only a small percentage of the more Stricter sect must make women wear these Burkhas, and as its been stated these originated from from Saudi Arabia, where the woman are no way treated as equal.

Thanks

Alright, I dont mean to sound racist at any extent but here is what my analysis on Iran and its westernized citizens is. When the King Shah was at power, Iran was way too modernized and westernized, people use to have fancy clothing and a lavish lifestyle mainly due to the fact that the US was a strong ally for Iran at that time. The business relations between Iran and the US was unimaginable and frankly unbelievable as a result, the strict Muslim clerics in Iran were waiting for a revolution and a sudden outburst upon the Shah's departure from Iran and Imam Khomeini's arrival seemed to be the right thing to happen. Iran came back in track, became the same strict country it is today.

Its compulsory to cover the women with Burkhas/Hijab in Iran, but most of the rebels and protesters and pro-Mousavi citizens are quite westernized. They dont like the strict lifestyle, the isolation from the Western World, they want to be a modern country where there is a freedom of choice and rights. A revolution to overthrow the current Supreme Leader of Iran is in the sight of hapennings mainly because too much frustration and hatred has grown up on the current Persian citizens. We can only wait and see what happens, Iran always had this vibe of the Western Lifestyle as a result many of them oppose to wear Hijab/Burkhas but since its compulsory, they at least need to show that they wear it. In Khomeini's days, it was much more strict and such freedom and such outburst by the Citizens in Iran was not possible, it was way too tough back then.

Persians mainly in US & Canada are a lot more freedom based, they do what they want and they have their own choice of wearing whatever they want. I know many persians here in Toronto and I have seen many girls who wear the Hijab just because they want to and I have seen many who wear more western attires than most Americans/Canadians do.

[UKBusinessLive]

Originally Posted by Tauhid

Alright, I dont mean to Sound racist .

Hi Tauhid, and thanks for your Reply.

Don't worry buddy your not sounding racist, just giving an honest answer to a question that was asked. I think if people in the world would just sit and talk openly there would not be most of the conflicts, that there are in the world today.

I agree with what you say Tauhid, When the Shah was in Iran, people we're more relaxed and i guess had more freedom, They were still muslims as the shah was as well.

However I remember a more stricter, Harder form of muslims took over during the revolution, with the coming of the Imam Khomeini.

But who wanted that?? was it all the people, did they just decide we want to be governed more stricter??

Now whilst its fine to let a country practice whatever religion it wants, why would these stricter muslims want to go to a western country (Which goes completely against their religion) and expect everyone to change for them?

if they need to leave their country for whater reason, war, famine etc, there are plenty of other muslim countries for them to go to.

Some guy mentioned jews earlier, I can't imagine them moving the whole family to iran, or Saudi Arabia, if they tried what do you think would happen??

Respect to You

**********EDIT*******************

I Just wanted to thank everyone taking part in this debate, We've got some great movements on the polls, and a lot of guys, shedding some light on what most would say is a difficult subject.

So Thanks for that

Gerry

[Tauhid]

However I remember a more stricter, Harder form of muslims took over during the revolution, with the coming of the Imam Khomeini.

But who wanted that?? was it all the people, did they just decide we want to be governed more stricter??

Ok first and foremost, if Iranians did not want the Shah to be ousted and the new regime of Imam Khomeini to begin, then this revolution would not take place. After all, everything is done in each country by the will of the majority people. Iran does follow a strict Islamic Democracy where governing and rules and the constituion is quite strict. They are sexist at times when you can imagine such strict rules imposed only on the women. Many places in Iran, the current President has imposed polygamy as legal as well. The fact is, women are portrayed quite badly in Iran even though 65% of the undergraduate students are women, thus meaning more and more women are more educated. Take Mousavi's wife for instance, people exclaimed her as the next "Michelle Obama", however unlike Mrs. Obama, she has achieved a lot of things in Iran for a woman.

Now whilst its fine to let a country practice whatever religion it wants, why would these stricter muslims want to go to a western country (Which goes completely against their religion) and expect everyone to change for them?

if they need to leave their country for whater reason, war, famine etc, there are plenty of other muslim countries for them to go to.

Some guy mentioned jews earlier, I can't imagine them moving the whole family to iran, or Saudi Arabia, if they tried what do you think would happen??

Alright, France was not as strict as it is trying to become at this moment by imposing such laws on Muslim women. If the bill does pass and the burqa is banned permanently, then I am pretty sure France will be internationally portrayed as a danger zone for Muslims all around the world. Burqas are not demeaning but suppose you are a pious Muslim and you refuse to take off the Burqa in front of the public, how do you think you can show yourself up on a job interview, Western Countries will not hire them for any reason. Most women wearing Burqas are either housewives or unemployed or employed only in their own countries, not another western country. Its sort of an isolation from the community itself.

Why do people migrate to better civilized countries? Because of money, security, safety and a peaceful life. They understand the circumstances of such laws being imposed upon at one point of a time. They know a lot of freedom will be lost and some freedom wll be gained upon your migration to a foreign country and knowingly, they migrate to other countries still for the better reasons.

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Originally Posted by Sayid

Then you acknowledge that you do not understand Arabic words !

And you have to know that Burkhas and Hijab are translated from Arabic language that you do not understand its words !!

So I understand Arabic and sorry about that question. do not misunderstand me .

I mean Islamic definition of Hijab which is covering the whole body

And my advice to you to get your religion rubrics from authoritative sites. Not from that pathetic article

I am sorry but you clearly lack true content and valid sources of what you are trying to portray. If you are saying wikipedia posseses false information, then you should take it up with them. I know for a fact and I will not allow you to tell the whole world that "Burqas are compulsory for all Muslim Women". Women have the freedom of choice to wear them in all Muslim Countries except few selective Arab countries who require you to wear hijab/burqa at all times while you are outside. I should also point out that a women's awareness of not showing off her beauty to other individuals is totally upon a woman's character. Just wearing a Burqa/Hijab does not indicate the fact you are a devoted Muslim. Its your faith that counts the most no matter what religion you follow.

[home9000]

Tauhid your information is wrong so if you are real Muslim you have to restudy again

[Tauhid]

Originally Posted by home9000

Tauhid your information is wrong so if you are real Muslim you have to restudy again

Care to elaborate, please bring valid proof to the table for discussion. After all gaining knowledge from discussing things and understanding such matters is always the best way to learn things in life. I can bring couple of hundreds of links from various trusted websites stating that Burqa is not compulsory for all Muslim women all over the world. I believe the arabic meaning for compulsory is "Farz" whereas the similar meaning for "recommended but not compulsory" is "Sunnat".

Now this argument about Burqa being compulsory will go on in all discussion boards, some will agree and some will disagree, but since this topic is not about the Burqa being compulsory, so I would stop here on defending what I know and what I believe. We all wont think alike at the same time, we will all have a different perception and a different level of study on whats right and whats wrong, but blatantly stating that my view/education regarding the "Burqa" is wrong without exact valid proof is quite stupid. I will give you a certain part of a content from a trustworthy website which does clearly state what Quran says about the Hijab/Burqa.

What does Quran say about the Burqa?

First of all, it depends on which Islamic scholar you ask. They are all in disagreement as to what extend Quran advocates this. However, the Quran does urge men and women to dress and behave modestly in society. The Quran does not specifically mention the Burqa or tells women to wear such extremely confining clothes. The Ulema or the Scholars do agree that the Quran says women should not wear extremely revealing clothes. Modern day muslims base their authority regarding the Burqa on the Hadith or collected traditions of life in the days of Muhammad the prophet. But a noteworthy objection is that Hadith describes 7th century Arabian life, which should not be imposed on modern day Muslims world wide. Muslim communities also argue that women are to dress modestly but should not be forced or punished to wear a Burqa. This is why many Muslim communities have different preferences regarding the application of the Burqa.

Source: http://relijournal.com/islam/the-burqa-facts-issues/

And for the rest who are joining in today to see this article, take your time to read the article in the following link that had a lot to do about the French President's decision on banning the Hijab/Burqa in France.

http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/06/24/76922.html