Uh oh, i hope this isn't right

[Replicant]

Originally Posted by WeeeBen

How hard are these hooks? I'm guessing hooks are something to hook features onto?
If that's what's killing vb5 then why wouldn't that be the first thing they fix?

It would have to be something they want before they think about adding it.

Personally, I run VB5 and I like it. The bugs I encountered were dealt with and I have buggy features turned off until they get them working correctly.

I have a couple mods that I wrote that work just fine. When upgrade time comes, it'll be more work for me without the hook system but I don't have a problem with that. I only have one forum to worry about so it isn't a big deal to me.

[ozzy47]

Some things you can not do with a mod without editing core files. The hooks system was intended to stop that.

Turning off features that are buggy is just silly, the bugs should be fixed. But instead they add new features to the core, rather than fixing what is there.

[Viruseater]

yeah no doubt. for the most part you can do whatever you want anyway I mean please, these aren't zend encoded files. PHP is PHP

To Weeben, you use hooks to tap into the functionality of a program.

A hook is an option in a library were the user code can link a function to change the behavior of the library. but the library function doesn't need to run along side the users code or of the library.

There' also "API" mentioned here. an API does things by sending a request in and getting a response, hooks skip that step.

But I remember back in the day we used to have to edit core files for styles. it wasn't until a later point that styles were broken out. I might be remembering UBB but i'm pretty sure vbulletin worked this way too back in the day.

Back then to do any mods you edit core files. T he problem with it is you have to document the heck out of everything because when you upgrade you write over those system files you edited and lose your mod. I mean you should document everything anyway, but... well yeah.

There's also the chance I'm not exlaining it right, but you get the idea

--------------- Added [DATE]1421590420[/DATE] at [TIME]1421590420[/TIME] ---------------

Originally Posted by Replicant

It would have to be something they want before they think about adding it.

Personally, I run VB5 and I like it. The bugs I encountered were dealt with and I have buggy features turned off until they get them working correctly.

I have a couple mods that I wrote that work just fine. When upgrade time comes, it'll be more work for me without the hook system but I don't have a problem with that. I only have one forum to worry about so it isn't a big deal to me.

I'm sure I'll be fine. i'm going to lose some tings I already know, but things change. i'm pretty sure we'll survive on the forum

the big difference for me is that I'm migrating a full blown CMS written on a different platform and bringing it into vb to use as a main site and a forum. So i'm a bit stressed how that will all play out. but once done it will be so nice to not run two completely different platforms for one website.

[Replicant]

Originally Posted by ozzy47

Some things you can not do with a mod without editing core files. The hooks system was intended to stop that.

I did edit my core files and it would have been nice to have a hooks system. I'm not arguing the point, I want hooks too, but we're not going to see them materialize and I'm not going to hassle with a downgrade to VB4, so I might as well learn to live with it.

Originally Posted by ozzy47

Turning off features that are buggy is just silly, the bugs should be fixed. But instead they add new features to the core, rather than fixing what is there.

Again, I agree the bugs should be fixed before adding new features, but leaving buggy features on would be silly.

Originally Posted by Viruseater

I'm sure I'll be fine. i'm going to lose some tings I already know, but things change. i'm pretty sure we'll survive on the forum

I hope your migration goes as smooth as possible. I don't envy you at all.

[ozzy47]

I mean proof is in the stats, as far as how the development community has taken to vB5.

vB4 was released as Gold in December of 2009. In December of 2011, two years after it's release, these were the stats. (source, https://web.archive.org/web/20111226...play.php?f=198 and https://web.archive.org/web/20111225...play.php?f=212)

vBulletin 4.x Add-ons: 1359
vBulletin 4.x Template Modifications: 473
vBulletin 4.x Styles: 313

Now lets look at vB5, two years after it's release.

vBulletin 5.x Products & Extensions: 53
vBulletin 5.x Template Modifications: 21
vBulletin 5.x Styles: 21

Also two years after vB5 is released, the market share of vB5 installs is only at 1.4% of all vBulletin instillation's, which shows, even the member base using vBulletin don't like the direction it went in. (source, https://tools.digitalpoint.com/cookie-search)

Not to mention that many users/coders have moved away from vBulletin to other platforms.

[cellarius]

Just read the threads here and in the licensed customers feedback forum on vb.com. It is by no means just the hook system. vB5, after 2 years out (so much for it being "new"...) still misses tons of features vB had before (and the features present more often than not are badly designed, half-assed implementations). it is notorious for being a ressource hog and still painingly slow, and I won't even get started on code quality.

And I'm someone who never ever thought of abandoning vB.

[Brandon Sheley]

Originally Posted by Viruseater

Recently I decided to upgrade one to vb5 connect with the mobile suite.

First mistake

I didn't do a ton of research

See first mistake :up:

[Viruseater]

I've been using vbulletin for 14 years and never had a problem. it's been out for 2 years. I don't think it's a stretch under 99.99% of cases to not do that much looking.

plus it's not like i've even started yet. i just got it

--------------- Added [DATE]1421606962[/DATE] at [TIME]1421606962[/TIME] ---------------

Originally Posted by cellarius

Just read the threads here and in the licensed customers feedback forum on vb.com. It is by no means just the hook system. vB5, after 2 years out (so much for it being "new"...) still misses tons of features vB had before (and the features present more often than not are badly designed, half-assed implementations). it is notorious for being a ressource hog and still painingly slow, and I won't even get started on code quality.

And I'm someone who never ever thought of abandoning vB.

So waht's the deal? i didn't even realize they sold?!?!? so the development roadmap changed? I swear I thought everyone was excited for 5? Then again I never migrate early like that, i always let everyone else do the bug working, and usually dont upgrade till there are 2 minor prs. but 2 YEARS LOL

seriously though, it bums me out. This is one platform that I always bragged about. How the code seemed clean (not pristine but it sure was better than a lot of stuff) and how flexible it got. The swing from 2 to 3 was huge. Then 3 to 4 well, Iam thinking I waited over a year for that one. 2 this time.

This souinds really familiar. i've been a project manager for 26 years, and dealing with vendors when things fall apart like this it is almost always one of two things.

1. company went broke
2. development heads leave and standards/procedures change

sigh. oh well, I'm sure I'll still enjoy working with it, just not as much as before. I always got exc cited when it was time to upgrad a major PR

I WILL say, the only negative thing that comes to mind, it didn't please me that I paid for 4 then in a 2 year span had to pay even more than that purchase, even after considering the 'upgrade' value. I did it based on my faith of the past decade and a half. I'm concerned a bit now. That part bugged me about the upgrade. I get a better discount with just a referal at lots of places. 11% discount for a current customer? wow. i remember thinking "Well, it IS vb, so they're banking on their reputation i'm sure' but i haven't been in the loop for several years. things certainly have changed.

[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Replicant

Personally, I run VB5 and I like it..

When a crap sandwich is all we know, we might think that crap sandwich is pretty good.

There isn't any amount of selling, pitching, testifying, or anything else that is going to convince people who know what a good sandwich is, into buying the crap sandwich.

There's also not any amount of fixing, redesigning, repairing or putting lipstick on that pig, that is going to make it NOT still be a crap sandwich. Because at its core is, crap.

And that's the memo.

[Replicant]

Originally Posted by Max Taxable

When a crap sandwich is all we know, we might think that crap sandwich is pretty good.

There isn't any amount of selling, pitching, testifying, or anything else that is going to convince people who know what a good sandwich is, into buying the crap sandwich.

There's also not any amount of fixing, redesigning, repairing or putting lipstick on that pig, that is going to make it NOT still be a crap sandwich. Because at its core is, crap.

And that's the memo.

Ah man, now I'm hungry.