The Bible, Quran, Jesus and Mohammed thread.

[UKBusinessLive]

Originally Posted by nexialys

actually i think that a lot of people in the world are using religion as a reason to fight. in the origin, there was no religion but guys were always fighting -- for a female or a territory, etc... now they want the same, but for different reason, some cast told them they needed a reason to fight -- so they told "god" needed them to fight... good reason?

I agree 100%, Here in the UK the fighting in Northern Ireland has now stopped, This was also due to religon, but it went on for so long i think that folk didn't really know what they were fighting for in the end.

Glad that its stopped now after 100 of years and thousands of deaths, Finally people saw that dying for your religion is a lost cause in this day and age.

I think everyone has a right to believe what they want, but shouldn't use this as an excuse to kill others.

[Taragon]

Reading between the lines I also find it sad religion, which should be a spiritual thing, a thing to get closer to the gods (without dying I mean), is always being brought up as an easy excuse for fighting.

I guess it's always for the same reason though: money (land).

Therefore I also think we can't really blame the people who are actually are trying to find their spiritual path, which often happens.

there is no religion where it is written to fight for it... BUT, people always compare... my car is faster than yours, your computer is uglier than mine... my god is mightier than yours...so i will prove it to you... (mine said that if i die i will go to heaven... yours not, so i kill you and you go nowhere, cheap)

[lasto]

Originally Posted by iogames

religion? nah...

although it seems truth we use as another excuse to kill each other...

when the church had power they abused it beyond belief.They excuted millions who did not belief in their faith - just glad the church does not have the same power today.
The church where responsible for witchcraft executions even though we all know there is no such thing as a witch.

[ovacsports]

I will try to explain this to the best of my ability, as I am not a Jewish, Christian, or islamic scholar by any means.

Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all VERY closely related, and have more in common than any other Religion out there. They all believe in 1 God. And they All believe in the same God.

If you speak english, you say God.

If you speak Hebrew, you say Jehovah.

If you speak Arabic, you say Allah.

All of these languages are refering to the same God, Allah, or Jehovah.

The first book to teach about the practice of 1 God was the Torah. That is the same book today that Jewish people read for guidence and knowledge. The Torah is also the same book that Prophet Jesus recieved his knowledge and taught his lectures from. The Old Testament contains much of the Torah and a little more. The Torah is basically the 5 books of Prophet Moses all put into 1 book.

The next common book would be the Bible. The Bible is a mix of what happened before Prophet Jesus (the Torah), and the accounts of what happened during and after Prophet Jesus.

Then finally, we have the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a mix of the Torah, the Bible, and what happened during the life of Prophet Muhammad.

ALL of these books teach and preach the practice of 1 God! The difference in them is who to consider a Prophet or not. Example - if you are Christian, you do not recognize Muhammad as a Prophet, and if you are Jewish, you do not recognize Jesus or Muhammad as respective Prophets.

The Torah and Bible are accounts that have been wrote down by people who had heard or been told the miraculous stories of the Prophets. Many stories were told over time by several different people (books), but only people who were deemed to have describe the events the most accurate were made into the respective books, the Torah and Bible.

The Qur'an is unique in that it was wrote during the time of Prophet Muhammads teachings... not after. In the final year of Prophet Muhammads life, he rehearsed the whole Qur'an twice to the Angel Gabriel for accuracy to make sure that it was the final word of what was supposed to be written.

The Qur'an has not been changed or altered since. Not a single word.

As a Muslim, I believe that the first Prophet was Adam from the Garden of Eden, and the last Prophet was Muhammad. Just to compare, here are some of the Prophets mentioned in the Qur'an, that are also mentioned in the Bible.

Prophet Adam
Prophet Noah
Prophet Abraham
Prophet Jacob
Prophet Job
Prophet Moses
Prophet David
Prophet Elijah
Prophet John the Babtist
Prophet Jesus

Now, or couse, if you read the Qur'an, these names will be in Arabic, because again, the Qur'an has NOT been changed. Back then there were no Hebrew or Arabic names of Adam, Noah, Abraham, etc... these are the English translations.

Take Jesus for example. In true Hebrew and Arabic, there is no "J" sound. Jesus was actually not his name. Just like the pictures we see of him today are not infact what he looked like. He was an Arab man, who more than likely had very dark olive skin and black hair.

Getting back on track... Jesus is the english name. Make no mistake about it, He was not called Jesus back then. In Hebrew Jesus was called Yeshua. In Arabic his name is Isa or sometimes called Esa. And in Aramaic you would say Eashoa'.

Thats right... during the time that Jesus actually lived, people called him Eashoa... NOT Jesus. Again, there was no J sound in any of these languages.

In the Qur'an, you will not see the name Jesus once, but you will see the name Isa several times... because again, the Qur'an has never been changed from its original form.

Why was the Bible changed? Why do Christians call him Jesus rather than his real name? I dont have the answer to that... maybe because it sounds better... just like how the picture of him with brown hair, fair skin, and blue eyes looks better.

How does a Muslim view Prophet Isa (Jesus)?

There is no question that He was an incredible man.... one of the greatest to ever life. He is a prophet, sent from Allah (God). He lived a great life and lead an example for all people to follow. Jesus however, was NOT God. I do not pray to Jesus, I pray to God. There is only 1 God, and to compare anybody to God is a sin.

There is where Muslims and Christians differ. I do not pray to Jesus, Muhammad, Noah, or anyother Prophet... I pray directly to God. In Islam, nobody stands between you and God.

In Islam... do we believe that everybody else is going to Hell?

First of all, one of the biggest sins in Islam is to judge others. God made us all, so if you are Judging somebody (who God made), then you are questioning Gods authority! But the Qur'an says that anybody who believes in the "People of the Book" (Prophets) in some form will be Judged much better than somebody who rejected them.

I could literally write all day about this... but I hope that I have answered some of your questions. Feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks.

ok, everything's been said. we can close the thread now... ROFL!!!

btw, good reading, but it was written with a book in mind... where is your heart in this?.. you believe in what, ovacsports ??

[GSeybold]

Thanks Ovacs! Great overview.

I'm on Chapter one of the guides.... I'm not particulary religious so I need a guide for the guide LOL but coming along. Fascinating stuff. You know, if they are all so closely related, why so much hatred, fighting and killing (of all three religions, past and present) I guess that's is the million dollar question eh? When will it end?

Thanks again!

Gabby

[UKBusinessLive]

Much of the Bible is historical fact, proved time after time by archaeology and new archaeological techniques. Some parts of the Old Testament are hebrew folklaw - including Genesis - but intermixed with that folklaw are real truths. As an example, the story of Adam and eve is very true, whether or not Adam and eve existed! 'Adam' means 'man' and 'Eve' means 'from Man' - so Adam and eve can repreent Humanity. The truth at the heart of the Adam and Eve story is that mankind was once in relatioship with God, but that mankind rebelled because he thought he knew best - and the result is the mess we have today. So although some Bible stories may be thought of as myths, they hide great truths abou the human soul.

Some parts of the Old testament are historical - especially the book of Exodus, and t Two books of Kings etc. Some are prophetic - Isaiah, Jeremiah etc - books that are written by men close to God, telling the people about God and warning them when they rebel against God. Some books are Literature - Job for instance. Again, whether or not Job actually existed as a historical person is not important, but the profound truths behind why there is suffering and the part God plays in the fallen world are extremely relevant to modern society.

The new testament books - the gospels and Acts, are historical and have been verified and checked more than any other ancient literature. And they have been verified by modern archaeology. Most of the rest of the New testament is taken up with letters written to the early churches by Paul and other writers. So being factual or otherwise is again irrelevant; they contain wonderful words of guidance and encouragement (and sometimes chastisement!) that is still as fresh and relevant today as when they were written 2000 years ago. Finally The revelation of John - the last book of the Bible is written in apocalyptic style - as a record of a vision he had. The book tells what he saw as his vision of the end of the world and the last judgement. It cannot be 'proved' as fact as it hasn't yet happened... but then it can't be proved as fiction either. Not is it easy to understand. Even the simplest part - the number of the 'beast' as 666, has had whole books written about it.

Therefore, one cannot say the Bible is Fact, period, or Fiction, period. It depends upon the part and exactly what you mean by fact or fiction. However, what you can say is that all the writers were inspired by God in their writings, and, quite frankly, nothing has ever come close as a blueprint for human guidance, comfort, revolution, God's revelation of himself, and, ultimately salvation.

Facts requires proof
While beliefs can stand by faith alone, facts needs proofs. There's no proof outside the bible and the fraudulent later interpolation in the writings of Josephus that proves that Jesus ever walked on earth.

Now why don't those early books ever mention the dinosaurs?? Stone age man and the evolution of man, We have proof that we evole from apes, where does that leave adam and eve ??

Whilst reglion is "Nice" and give us something to ponder about, can it really be true and if not why are we hell bent in using it as an excuse to kill our fellow man ???

[Taragon]

Thanks, that was quite interesting to read really

Originally Posted by lasto

when the church had power they abused it beyond belief.They executed millions who did not belief in their faith - just glad the church does not have the same power today.
The church where responsible for witchcraft executions even though we all know there is no such thing as a witch.

True, a couple of inquisitors from that time wrote a lovely book about it called Hexenhammer. However, those from that time who worshiped mother nature also weren?t always that friendly.

About witchcraft itself, it?s actually one of the fastest growing religions in the USA these days, even though the name has been changed, and it has gathered loads of groupies

[ovacsports]

Originally Posted by UKBusinessLive

Now why don't those early books ever mention the dinosaurs?? Stone age man and the evolution of man, We have proof that we evole from apes, where does that leave adam and eve

Actually... the Qur'an covers this. What is most incredible, is that the Qur'an was wrote LONG before this theory could be understood.