Whats with JumpDs mods! Part 2

[Zachery]

there are currently no files attached to these threads. Thus they were removed. We are talking about what to do, untill then if jumpD would like to restore the files we will move the threads back as they will follow the current rule.

[Tralala]

Originally Posted by Zachery

there are currently no files attached to these threads. Thus they were removed. We are talking about what to do, untill then if jumpD would like to restore the files we will move the threads back as they will follow the current rule.

JumpD removed his hacks because he felt insulted by some public comments made by the moderators here. He was told he was "expendable" and "replacable." Considering the immense contributions JumpD has made here, I don't blame him for having negative feelings about that.

Since then, Erwin has apologized for these comments and also posited that coders are, indeed, the lifeblood of this site. Perhaps JumpD needs to hear that before he comes back and offers up his hacks again? Yes, much of this is about pride. And why place the burden on others? I'd think a forum mod here (of all forums) would know how to keep the eye on the "bigger picture."

In the meantime, all of the existing users of these hacks are caught in the crossfire. Hundreds of folks installed these very complex hacks, and those pages have valuable information for us. Hell, I contributed to some of them.

And these weren't simple one-line template changes, either. ArticleBot and the Live Feedback System were intense pieces of code.

This ain't Congress, it's a frickin' forum, for forum mods. Enough filibustering, admit a mistake was made, and bring back the threads, please. Maybe that'll show JumpD (a very valued coder here) that there's hope for this community yet. I think there's room here to be human, to be mature, to be realistic, and flexible. Maybe that'll show a new user like me that this is a forum worth investing my time and interest in.

How long will it take for this silly "policy" to be changed, anyway? My forum and my business rely on some of the support offered up in those threads. By removing them wholesale, a mere 12 hours after the attachments were removed, without warning to current users... by golly, I can't think of a more rash and short-sighted move.

[Zachery]

I am sorry for you that JumpD misunderstood the words I personally spoke. I made several attempts to re-explain myself. Yes, Erwin apologized for me, after I had apologized myself.

I understand, however the fact remains at this time, the threads contain no modifications, as far as I know JumpD has not contacted any of the moderators asking for his threads to be re-instated so he can re attach the mods. These threads were removed from the public due to the rules we currently have in effect. Until Erwin, Stefan, Brad or Wayne make a final say I cannot re-instate the said modification threads.

I’m sorry that you disagree with our policies however; the moderators here were just following procedure that has been set in place by the staff (read admins) of this forum. We were not the ones who removed the modifications, JumpD did, he can contact any one of the moderators, or administrators, or even make a thread asking for his threads to be moved back so he re-attach said threads.

This is not the first time this has happened, Nexialys removed his attachments and the same policy was followed, I did not see any mass outrage at this. We cannot make a special exception for one user in the rules. We are awaiting an admin ruling, until this happens we (the mods) are not going to take any action.

[dwbro1]

Originally Posted by Zachery

This is not the first time this has happened, Nexialys removed his attachments and the same policy was followed, I did not see any mass outrage at this. We cannot make a special exception for one user in the rules. We are awaiting an admin ruling, until this happens we (the mods) are not going to take any action.

As a C-level executive responsible for hundreds of customer service agents and engineers, if this were my organization, some of you would no longer be employeed today.

This group of screaming "Customers" out here is YOUR customer, not JumpD's. You (Vbulletin.org) can put policies in place all day long that try and remove the responbility from you but you are the mechanism for which people receive the product. Ultimately, your actions and not the individual programmers, are what is viewed by the customers and those actions have a DIRECT impact on Jefsoft's reputation. Like it or not and hide behind different names but the actions of VB.org are the actions of Jelsoft.

Every first year, CS agent and marketing professional learns the rules:

1. Customer is always right.
2. When customer is wrong, refer to rule #1.

Folks this is not about pride or policies, just reinstate the threads without the files and close for more posting. Put an announcement in the thread stating the facts and it will be pending further review for a decision. Right now you have a real growing issue here and you need to get off your duffs and take the appropiate action, for your customers.

Originally Posted by dwbro1

As a C-level executive responsible for hundreds of customer service agents and engineers, if this were my organization, some of you would no longer be employeed today.

This group of screaming "Customers" out here is YOUR customer, not JumpD's. You (Vbulletin.org) can put policies in place all day long that try and remove the responbility from you but you are the mechanism for which people receive the product. Ultimately, your actions and not the individual programmers, are what is viewed by the customers and those actions have a DIRECT impact on Jefsoft's reputation. Like it or not and hide behind different names but the actions of VB.org are the actions of Jelsoft.

Every first year, CS agent and marketing professional learns the rules:

1. Customer is always right.
2. When customer is wrong, refer to rule #1.

Folks this is not about pride or policies, just reinstate the threads without the files and close for more posting. Put an announcement in the thread stating the facts and it will be pending further review for a decision. Right now you have a real growing issue here and you need to get off your duffs and take the appropiate action, for your customers.

I understand that you are sick of hearing about policies and delays, but it's all some of us can tell you guys.

As someone who has worked Customer Support, I've learned to follow any policy, exactly how it is stated. If a customer is unhappy with the policy, the issue is escalated to someone higher in the hierarchy of support.

This is the state where we are now, and I sincerely apologize for the wait. Action will be taken as soon as possible.

We understand there are problems with vb.org, we are trying are hardest to get things in the right direction quickly and efficiently. Things are changing, and it's these moments when changes are being discussed that everyone needs to be patient. That's all I am asking personally.

The staff here are not employed by Jelsoft, we are volunteers and are trying the best we can at the moment. Please understand this.

[kira]

But with respect, Danny, you guys are trying to have it both ways.

On the one hand, y'all keep telling us that nothing's really official at vb.org, you're all volunteers, we regular members shouldn't expect 100% professionalism or customer support, etc. etc. etc.

Yet for some reason this casual, volunteer, member-helping-member sorta place has policy regarding returning deleted threads that's so inflexible, so writ in stone, that woe be unto the moderator who violates said policy. Things are so wrapped in red tape here in vb.orgland that in order to make a simple decision like this, you guys have to run it through a special investigatory subcommittee before dispatching your findings to the admins via carrier pigeon, after which the admins consult with the Vatican and wait for a smoke signal to appear.

Folks like Scott, Wayne and Floris are extremely accessible and don't take billions of years to make easy decisions like this. All we're talking about is moving the threads back to the active forum and locking them so they don't get bumped. There's no ethical quandary, no technical nightmare here.

Seriously, dudes. It took longer for me to type this post than it should've taken an admin to say "okay, restore the threads."

[bairy]

Kira has a good point.

There's far too much of this hiding behind policy these days. It goes on all over the place, both online and offline.

Policies are generally created to serve and/or protect the community, and as such they should be flexible in their approach.

In this case, if there are certain threads that contain useful information* then a decision should be made for the overall good, and not follow a cast iron inflexible policy of "no attachment, no thread". Taking the inflexible "that's what it says, that's what goes" attitude will more likely create more harm than good, which apart from being a PITA, is contradictory to the point of why it was made to start with.

* I haven't seen the referrered-to JumpD threads but with the amount of talk about them and the fact there's been no denial of their usefullness I would imagine they live up to the hype.

I have been loosely following this whole change in methods and what caused it all, and I think that the messages currently coming from admin are much more positive and welcome, but I think one of the first barriers that needs to be broken is the cast iron approach of "what we say goes". Yes, that is the role of site staff but didn't this whole thing start because of exactly that attitude?
Also, who exactly made up these policies? Was it a discussion amongst everyone, or just the (voluntary) staff?

[FleaBag]

We need to remember though, that the mods are not to blame. As mentioned, they have to follow policy and escalate in order to review the situation. They are not responsible for the policy itself! If the vB staff in charge of this place were really so accessible would this place be on a downward spiral? I think the problem with vB at the moment is that the customer isn't being served, because they are not understood! I don't blame Jelsoft for this, because at the end they are coders and do not specialise in people interaction - but because of this I think it really is time a customer services representitive (who has experience in REAL customer service) was hired/appointed. It doesn't have to be a paid role! Just someone who has understanding of the customer, and how not to offend them! I have seen many posts here from mods in recent times on the 'high horse' - this needs to END! - Not all mods are to blame though, and I'm not specifically referring to anyone (i.e. Zach is a friend of mine). I appreciate though that vB.org isn't burning in hellfire, but it certainly isn't such a great place to be at the moment (the hacks though, are still great!).

[The Geek]

The problem is not the 'rules' but how they are enfoced.

You can shout up and down about 'no zip, no thread', yet you guys have had vBarticles up here for over 1 year and it hasnt been downloadable. Heck, it has its own freaking forum!

You cant say you havent noticed, mods have posted in the premium forum and on the thread.

what was it... 6 hours for someone who spoke out and over 1 year (still going) for someone that didnt?

I sat a couple days before pointing out the hypocrisy, however I finally caved in. I am sure there are others - its just that I remember all the hoopla last year over a 'premium modification' having its own forum but not being able to actually download it from this site. Mods were cool about the situation - giving the author the benefit of the doubt. Why is everything so different?

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....postcount=1118

Im not trying to 'grass' anyone up. I am just pointing out that the rules are flexible when it seems to suit staff but inflexible when it doesnt. I am sure if Cinq would have made a stink that he was leaving because of staff and such, his stuff would have been pulled long ago.

I think Cinqs stuff is still valubale for the hundreds of users that installed the system. Obviously its of less value now as it doesnt look like anyone has installed in a year. However people have recently installed Jumps stuff. Archive it for thier use. If he returns his hacks - reinstate them as full threads. If not, leave them archived for 6 months and then dump them.

Stop playing ego games and get this site back on track!

I might as well add to the additional inconsistencies about rule enforcement around here.

Check this sticky thread out-> https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=102739

Notice anything interesting? A lot of 3rd party vendors selling skins.
However oddly enough it can't be done for 3rd part modifications. Geez, customers seemed to appreciate the information on skins - but saying '3rd party vendor for modifications' is akin to saying you worship the lord of darkness around here.

Rules are great - if you follow them and enforce them across the board. Otherwise they come back and nibble your bum.

Enough poo stirring for now

[Brad]

This author's modifications were not removed out of spite, the moderator that did so was just following policy. This user was very vocal in the last few days, so it's easy to assume this was done out of spite, but the fact is the author was vocal so it was noticed right off and dealt with. Yes there are examples of other modifications that have lingered in the forums for awhile without begin deleted, they have ethor gone un-noticed or a grace period was given' and it was never followed up on.

You guys have asked for a 'grave yard' for these threads, and this is begin considered. But it is one of a million things that have come up in the last 5 days or so (I would say we've gotten more feedback in that short period of time, then we have gotten in the last month). Give us some time to sort this out, and get things moving on our end, that's all I ask.