Betas for experienced members only!

[TygerTyger]

I think quite simply a subsection for public betas will be your best bet. There's no fair way - or at least, fair and managable way - to determine who should and shouldn't have access to a beta. A beta subsection with a bigass THIS IS A BETA and THIS IS WHAT A BETA MEANS faq-style quick explanation at the header of every hack thread, with the mod explanation/instructions etc below it, will serve you best I reckon.

The fact of the matter is that the problem isn't the mods, or the authors, or the forum. It's the people who don't bother reading, are too inexperienced or short-tempered or lazy or all of the above. Make it clear, give them fair warning and if they still don't make an effort, they earn what they get. Sounds harsh, but that's just the nature of forums. The benefits will be there for those who want them as well.

[The Geek]

I agree with Tyger (though the discussion will be moot with a new hack DB).

The old 3.0x forum for beta's seemed to be a good 'Ye pass here at ye own peril' barrier. Sure it wasnt perfect - but it was a bit easier to identify.

It was also a cool place to go if you wanted to spend some time helping an author trouble shoot some work they are doing.

Just a thought.

[stonyarc]

Originally Posted by TygerTyger

I think quite simply a subsection for public betas will be your best bet. There's no fair way - or at least, fair and managable way - to determine who should and shouldn't have access to a beta. A beta subsection with a bigass THIS IS A BETA and THIS IS WHAT A BETA MEANS faq-style quick explanation at the header of every hack thread, with the mod explanation/instructions etc below it, will serve you best I reckon.

The fact of the matter is that the problem isn't the mods, or the authors, or the forum. It's the people who don't bother reading, are too inexperienced or short-tempered or lazy or all of the above. Make it clear, give them fair warning and if they still don't make an effort, they earn what they get. Sounds harsh, but that's just the nature of forums. The benefits will be there for those who want them as well.

Tyger is right.
Just on the googlemap I got some great responses and some nice feature suggestions from people that have bothered to read what's it about, how it works and what are the known issues (that's why it's a beta).

But some people don't read. If if it says "to fix issues xxxx download latest version". It sometimes frustrating but it's for them and for ourselves we make it. The least they could do is use the page search.

The faq seems like a good idea. Why not make a basic documentation package mandatory with just the core elements in it:

- how to install
- how to configure
- how to uninstall
- known issues
- roadmap
- version history
- tips & tricks

That should avoid the repeating questions and make it a standard additional feature for all modifications.

[Paul M]

Perhaps the first problem is to define what a "beta" version is. No disrespect to Danny, but given the number of errors that seemed to be in the first versions, they were not what I would call beta versions.

[TygerTyger]

I've always defined it thus:

Alpha: Works, sort of.
Beta: Works, mostly.
Final: Works!

Betas are testing versions after all. If they work perfectly they may as well not be betas.

[slank]

Originally Posted by Andreas

Main problem with Betas (closed or public): Almost nobody does test them and does report bugs, they only complain that there are bugs (without telling which ones).

is true alot of people don't contribut or tell of the bugs but just wnt the code cuse they can't wait.

As a programmer myself i always try to include every possible bug and deciption of when and where it appeared and how i managed to come across it, not everyone is like that though, they want a quick fix and fast.

i don't know what else to say, but i am a programmer who is deigned to test and break programs in as many ways as possible. So i am used to constantly giving the coding errors and feedback on the problem, some people just either don't care or have no clue - and then flame the coder for the problems (this is only my opinion of course).

The problem as i see it is people do not read enough

[trackpads]

Originally Posted by slank

The problem as i see it is people do not read enough

That statement is true in a lot of thing in life.

[stonyarc]

Originally Posted by slank

is true alot of people don't contribut or tell of the bugs but just wnt the code cuse they can't wait.

As a programmer myself i always try to include every possible bug and deciption of when and where it appeared and how i managed to come across it, not everyone is like that though, they want a quick fix and fast.

i don't know what else to say, but i am a programmer who is deigned to test and break programs in as many ways as possible. So i am used to constantly giving the coding errors and feedback on the problem, some people just either don't care or have no clue - and then flame the coder for the problems (this is only my opinion of course).

The problem as i see it is people do not read enough

It's even worse. It seems like you sometimes have to beg to post a link so you can see the problem for yourself.
Sometimes you only get "it doesn't work" and the link in their profile goes to somewhere exotic.

What if the beta process is more formalized:
Include a bug report if you find something in a beta
- link:
- description:
- config:

So at least you would have something to start from and it's a lot easier to add to the manual/roadmap/faq

[Borgs8472]

^ ^
/me agrees!

[Paul M]

It would be handy if vb.org had a bug tracking system linked to hacks.