Is circumcision ethical?

[ForceHSS]

Faith is believing in something you can't see, but someday I know I will be in heaven and I do feel sad for all who wont be but that is their decision. I am done posting in here if any, here really want to know about the Lord feel free to pm me.

Many have said to me how can you believe in something you cant see I say to them you cant see the wind but you feel it well I feel the spirit of God

[LostInCyberLand]

Maybe I should start up a thread about the dangers of intolerance, as that essentially is why MC is allowed to continue. Every time with you religious people I am polite and respect your opinions and try and see your point of view, yet you always reply in a way that is rude and completely dismisses my point of view. You don't even try and see it from my point of view. That is why I will never see you or your religions as having any legitimacy. I'm tired of being tolerant of intolerance.

As if to add insult to injury I just found this article by an Indonesian paper, that talks about MC as if it is a legitimate cure, I didn't realize Indonesia was doing the same thing to the poor people of their occupied Papua province. Having this happen so close to Australia, and have it happen to some of the most vulnerable men in the world really makes me realize how inhumane this practice is. All they are doing is taking advantage of the most vulnerable in our society to make a quick buck. If you want an example of what happens when you let these religious people rule Indonesia is a classic textbook case.

Also note the Clintons foundation is also supporting this. I thought the Clintons would know better than this. What upsets me most is how the article describes what is a barbaric stone age process so clinically and without any emotion, and passes it off as a legitimate medical practice. I thought people were smarter than this, obviously I was wrong.

The Papua AIDS Eradication Commission (KPAD) began to distribute 1,800 PrePex circumcision devices to residents on Monday in four regions in a bid to reduce the risk of HIV infections in the province.

The device, made of elastic rings and placed on male genitals for seven days before it is released, has been considered practical and easy to use and can provide a non-surgical, medical means to achieve adult male circumcision.

Papua KPAD secretary Constant Karma said that the 1,800 PrePex units, which were donated by the US-based Clinton Foundation through the Clinton Health Access Initiative (CHAI), would be distributed to Jayapura, Jayawijaya, Paniai and Manokwari, starting Monday.

“This is only the first stage. For the second phase, we will receive another 10 million PrePex units [from the foundation],” Karma said on Monday on the sidelines of a free circumcision service held to introduce PrePex use at the regional administration-run hospital RSUD Dok II Jayapura.

The hospital, according to Karma, would open such a service until Friday.

In 2007, the World Health Organization and UNAIDS argued that circumcised men could reduce the risk of HIV infection by approximately 60 percent in high-risk areas.

The spread of HIV infections in Papua is alarming, according to the Papua KPAD. HIV in Papua is mainly transmitted through unsafe sexual intercourse.

Unlike regular circumcision surgery, PrePex-assisted circumcision is much easier to perform. After the male genitalia is cleaned and measured, anesthesia cream is applied on the tip of it to get rid of a tingling sensation.

Then the PrePex, which is a set of two rings, one black and one white, is inserted onto the genitals according to the respective size.The white ring is put inside the genital skin while the black one is put around the outer skin. The rings will clamp the skin, stopping the flow of blood, nerves and nutrition to the skin that will be cut off.

“As the flow of the blood, nerves and nutrition stops, the skin will automatically feel nothing so that no pain will be felt and no blood will come out,” said Suwardi, one of the hospital doctors who assisted in Monday’s circumcision service.

After the rings are attached, patients could engage in normal activities and then return to the hospital a week later to have the dead skin cut off and the rings released, said Karma, who was also among the patients.

Reynold Suwae, a 16-year-old local student completing senior high school in Malang, East Java, was also among the patients.

“I happened to be on vacation. I am interested to join the KPAD circumcision program because it involves no pain and no blood coming out. The circumcision doesn’t disturb my vacation,” Reynold said.

source http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2....D7zPmDsh.dpuf

Here is an example of how the MC argument usually goes on TV, juxtaposed against the facts. Medical professionals will make blanket statements and use emotion instead of reason when approaching this topic; just like the religious people do. If Doctors are even perpetuating these lies then you know something is wrong. Anyone who supports MC has a hidden interest, be it money, from the surgical procedure or devices used to facilitate MC, selling of the foreskin, or to promote their religious views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Lm396q8KA

--------------- Added [DATE]1436019418[/DATE] at [TIME]1436019418[/TIME] ---------------

Also remember this only came to my attention because of the case happening with the 4 year old boy in the US called Chase. You can find out more about him here and the 'phony phimosis' argument used to justify his MC:

http://www.phillyvoice.com/mother-re...-circumcision/

It seems everything to do with MC comes from a lack of proper education of the parents when dealing with these things, especially when dealing with how to care for a infants penis and that you do not retract the skin, that is something you let the boy do once he is able to and once the foreskin separates from the penis. I only hope this thread may help future parents come to a more informed choice.

If your still on the fence about MC, these pictures show the risks involved, and please be aware the link contains graphic surgical images, some showing how infection has caused a lot of the skin around the babies abdomen to be removed. Also note in the surgical video, no anaesthesia is used, as the baby gets more agitated once the surgery begins:

http://www.drmomma.org/2010/05/the-p...cumcision.html

Anyway the only reason I became aware of this issue was because I saw it on the news with the court case about the mother who went to jail because she didn't want her boy circumcised, and if anyone ends up finding out what happens to Chase please update us here.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by ForceHSS

Read the bible its the word of God

So basically your just taking someones word for it.

Of course, if you want to believe in angels, demons, heaven, hell and other such made up stuff, thats your choice - I, however, do not.

It does make for some good entertaining TV shows now and then (like Supernatural).

[ForceHSS]

Paul I know what you and many here think I know God, Jesus, heaven etc etc is real so it does not matter what anyone says but when all here are long dead then you will be thinking back on this and wishing you listened to what I was telling you ask now for salvation before its to late

[LostInCyberLand]

Sorry. I shouldn't have been so abrasive and disrespectful in my arguments. I respect your belief and your religion. I just want everyone to be happy and for no more people to needlessly get hurt because of unnecessary surgical procedures. That's all.

I'm not sure if death is such a certainty anymore, they have discovered how to reverse the ageing process, it's only a matter of time before that is somehow implemented in a way that can allow our bodies to stay young forever. Trials for Niagen are happening right now.

I never allow my opinions to be set in stone, so I guess I am different and find it difficult to understand it when people do through religion. No harm meant. I will just follow the Florida MC story on my own.

[BirdOPrey5]

Originally Posted by LostInCyberLand

Sorry. I shouldn't have been so abrasive and disrespectful in my arguments. I respect your belief and your religion. I just want everyone to be happy and for no more people to needlessly get hurt because of unnecessary surgical procedures. That's all.

I'm not sure if death is such a certainty anymore, they have discovered how to reverse the ageing process, it's only a matter of time before that is somehow implemented in a way that can allow our bodies to stay young forever. Trials for Niagen are happening right now.

I never allow my opinions to be set in stone, so I guess I am different and find it difficult to understand it when people do through religion. No harm meant. I will just follow the Florida MC story on my own.

I would bet big money that the aging process is ever truly halted. We may live longer, mayne to 150, but not beyond that.

How awful life would become if we did manage to stop aging. The world would be overrun, all resources wasted... the young would have no chance. That would be the true end to the human race.

[ForceHSS]

We will never pass 120 as we can never go against the will of God
Genesis Ch 6 v 3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

James Ch 4 v 14
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

[MarkFL]

Originally Posted by ForceHSS

We will never pass 120 as we can never go against the will of God...

Jeanne Calment of France lived to the age of 122 years, 164 days. Others will eventually join the verified list of people who live past the 120 year mark...it's only a matter of time and certain statistical laws.

[BirdOPrey5]

Originally Posted by ForceHSS

We will never pass 120 as we can never go against the will of God
Genesis Ch 6 v 3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

James Ch 4 v 14
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

According to the bible isn't pi exactly 3.0?

Also, didn't some early people mentioned live to like 600 years old?

So maybe God just estimates or maybe the biblical definition of a year doesn't match ours?

[shimei]

Originally Posted by ForceHSS

We will never pass 120 as we can never go against the will of God
Genesis Ch 6 v 3
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Genesis 6:3 does not cap the age limit to 120 years. Genesis 6:3 is God?s declaration that the flood would occur 120 years from His pronouncement. Humanity's days being ended is a reference to humanity itself being destroyed in the flood. Genesis 6:3 is a prediction of the timetable for the flood.