Tired of inconsistency: pls don't move my Requests if other requests are allowed here

[theflow]

This is getting very frustrating. I really wish the Mods at vB would come to the conclusion that the current information design for the hack request & release forum is just not working. It's bad usability -- mixing requests and releases in multiple places.

If you truly want all Requests to be placed here, then be consistent: either all requests go there or not. But if you're going to selectively move requests from out of this forum, please be consistent here too.

I know everyone is doing their best, and moderators are also busy developing vB software. All the more reason I would think Mods would prefer to cut down on confusion and repeat questions by addressing and fixing the current usability problems with these hack forums.

Practically everyone who joins the vB help community ends up asking many of the same questions over and over -- I'm a great example -- simply because there is not a clear system established for FAQs. The How Do I? section has an FAQ sticky thread that does nothing to index the frequently asked questions. Instead it links to **another forum** which, in itself, has no well-crafted index. It too just displays a standard thread list in default chron mode. Yet over and over and over again the same questions get asked. Same here, in the hacks area.

There's a better way to do this, and I am willing to help if the Mods will agree to improve the usability. Take this example from an FAQ I have on my site re: Cookies & Privacy. The contents of one post includes links to all relevant details. Likewise, with a little bit of cooperative effort from Mods who are totally familiar with the barrage of repeat questions and topics, I would help construct this kind of Topic-based set of links to alreday answered questions.

Case in point: posted today, 8/25/01, in this forum:

Last xx Posts On non-vB page?
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...threadid=26374

User says he searched all over for this and couldn't find it. Tubedogg replies and helpfully says "see my sig file".

A "sticky thread" FAQ which contains many of the most frequently requested hacks/features with links to their respective released hacks would be a great benefit to users -- and to Mods -- cutting down on their repeat directives. This would also free up more resource time and bandwidth to maybe work out a couple more of the new requests currently in queue, for those inclined to do so.

The system now is just terribly inefficient. Seems to me everyone would benefit from some improvements here. But in the meantime, if there is going to be anarchy in this forum, then let it be and please don't move my requests. Thank you.

[Admin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by theflow
...moderators are also busy developing vB software...

[ToraTora!]

Originally posted by theflow
This is getting very frustrating. I really wish the Mods at vB would come to the conclusion that the current information design for the hack request & release forum is just not working. It's bad usability -- mixing requests and releases in multiple places.

If you truly want all Requests to be placed here, then be consistent: either all requests go there or not. But if you're going to selectively move requests from out of this forum, please be consistent here too.

I know everyone is doing their best, and moderators are also busy developing vB software. All the more reason I would think Mods would prefer to cut down on confusion and repeat questions by addressing and fixing the current usability problems with these hack forums.

Practically everyone who joins the vB help community ends up asking many of the same questions over and over -- I'm a great example -- simply because there is not a clear system established for FAQs. The How Do I? section has an FAQ sticky thread that does nothing to index the frequently asked questions. Instead it links to **another forum** which, in itself, has no well-crafted index. It too just displays a standard thread list in default chron mode. Yet over and over and over again the same questions get asked. Same here, in the hacks area.

There's a better way to do this, and I am willing to help if the Mods will agree to improve the usability. Take this example from an FAQ I have on my site re: Cookies & Privacy. The contents of one post includes links to all relevant details. Likewise, with a little bit of cooperative effort from Mods who are totally familiar with the barrage of repeat questions and topics, I would help construct this kind of Topic-based set of links to alreday answered questions.

Case in point: posted today, 8/25/01, in this forum:

Last xx Posts On non-vB page?
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...threadid=26374

User says he searched all over for this and couldn't find it. Tubedogg replies and helpfully says "see my sig file".

A "sticky thread" FAQ which contains many of the most frequently requested hacks/features with links to their respective released hacks would be a great benefit to users -- and to Mods -- cutting down on their repeat directives. This would also free up more resource time and bandwidth to maybe work out a couple more of the new requests currently in queue, for those inclined to do so.

The system now is just terribly inefficient. Seems to me everyone would benefit from some improvements here. But in the meantime, if there is going to be anarchy in this forum, then let it be and please don't move my requests. Thank you.

lol...i just got done reading you other thread here, and than seen this one.. I have to admit, you bring up some good points, and the university analogy in the other thread, is a good example of what i see going on in here. The grass is getting trampled.

[JamesUS]

Okay. I will stop moving requests over (I actually gave up on moving them a couple of weeks back but I still move the occasional one )

We'll need to get something discussed with John and James when they return.

Sticky thread idea sounds good. but we as moderators don't raelly have time to manage it. But if you or another user wants to do it then go ahead

[theflow]

James, that sounds cool. ... The thing about the sticky thread would be to keep editing it periodically, so that it is an updated TOPIC-based listing of hack requests with links.

I'm a usability/ Info designer. I would be happy to help sift through released hacks and come up with my "take" on categorizations of hacks.

Just off top of my head, just now looking through 13 pages of released hacks, I am talking about this kind of classification scheme:

FORMATTING, LAYOUT, THREAD DISPLAY ISSUES

REPLYING/ START NEW THREAD

IMAGES, ATTACHMENTS, SIGS, AVATARS

USER STATUS, DISPLAYS, PRIVILEGES

REGISTRATION

LOGIN, COOKIES, SESSIONS, TRACKING, STATS

RATINGS, RANKINGS, KARMA, FILTRATION

ADMIN, TEMPLATES & CP MGMT

MODERATOR TOOLS

PRIVATE FORUMS

PMs, ICQ, CHATS

NON-vB PAGES, TOP 10, MOST RECENT


The initial work to sift and sort the Released Hacks would be minimal compared to the massive advantage to users -- which in turn minimizes the resource wear & tear on Mods answering same questions over and over.

The "ideal scenario" people often like to recommend is to "first try searching to see if your question has already been asked." Doesn't work. Impractical. Not real-world. Simply because users are all over the map in the way they title their threads -- thus it truly is a waste of time. The far better solution is a Moderator-edited Topically-classified FAQ. You guys know the repetitious material better than anyone.

For me -- and this opens a larger can of worms I'm sure none of you want to deal with -- the truth is: between hopping around "How do I?", "vB Code Hacks", "vB Templates", "Graphics & Styles", "Hints & Tips" -- I think, respectfully, you guys have it sliced and diced non-optimally. There is so much redundancy all over these places that it speaks for itself: The Forum categorizations should be overhauled. There are far too many disparate places to look for formatting & customizing solutions, and none of them are organized topically -- the way people think.

People aren't really looking for hacks, they're looking for solutions to questions. If you organize the frequently asked questions, the usability, efficiency & effectiveness of these help forums would improve about 500%....

My more-than-2 cents on the matter

[Wayne Luke]

You sure are happy to volunteer other's peoples time and energy to make your life easier.

My suggestion to everyone is to follow the established guidelines. If you see a post that doesn't belong here let us know and we will move it as soon as we can.

I am sorry but I get the impression that you want the moderators to be at your beck and call and provide special support to you and your desires. If you want me to be at your beck and call then you can pay me the $40 an hour to do so. Just let me know and I will let you know where you can wire the money.

You are right the system is imperfect but so are people in general. The only way to improve the system is to work with people and to gradually make things better. However you don't want that you want instant gratification and you want it before anyone has a chance to act.

I for one will continue moving requests to the appropriate forum as a see them whether you wrote them or not. This will continue until we can work to make the system better.

[theflow]

Originally posted by wluke
You sure are happy to volunteer other's peoples time and energy to make your life easier.

wluke, well I think that's harsh, but if that's your read, okay. Above, I am actually volunteering my time to help classify the hundreds of hacks releasd already, so that other users beside me can benefit from seeing what's been done. I think it's clear that searching is impractical and unrealistic for reasons stated before. If anything I am trying to contribute constructive suggestions that would reduce moderator time, not increase it. But I guess you don't see it that way. Just because I am making observations about the inefficiency in the way the various vB forums are sliced and diced doesn't make me self-centered or insensitive to the volumes of hours you guys put into helping us.

But it is possible that though I am not an engineer, and thus can't contribute to coding solutions, my expertise in Information & Usability design could be embraced rather than shunned and seen as whining. I wouldn't call that instant gratification.

I'm not looking to pick a fight -- I'm just trying to help. In this case, the help I am offering happens to fly in the face of all of the cumulative hours that have gone into information-designing the current vB Boards. It doesn't mean I am unappreciative.

[Wayne Luke]

You are mentioning at least 13 different sticky threads which would have to be locked and maintained by the moderators. To allow the general membership to post in them would result in the same problem you profess to be trying to fix. Before you know it people will be talking about cartoons or their favorite movies. This is human nature and not really anyone's fault but the topics would drift.

Then these threads will really provide no useful information. The only true way to provide the hierarchy you want would be to provide 13 new forums and require the moderators to again, test, review and study each hack that is released to the public and make sure that it is categorized properly.

Then what about the hacks that are covered by multiple categories? Are we supposed to make a copy in each forum and split the support between them so that one thread gets ignored over the other?

How much support is the staff supposed to provide for un-supported code modifications?

[theflow]

Originally posted by wluke
You are mentioning at least 13 different sticky threads which would have to be locked and maintained by the moderators. To allow the general membership to post in them would result in the same problem you profess to be trying to fix. ... Then these threads will really provide no useful information. The only true way to provide the hierarchy you want would be to provide 13 new forums and require the moderators to again, test, review and study each hack that is released to the public and make sure that it is categorized properly.

I can tell I'm ticking you off and I don't mean to, honestly. This is more what I suggest: Not 13 sticky threads (or forums) but just one sticky thread -- wherein the first post of that thread contains the list of Topic classifications (whichever ones the veterans here agree are decent classifications), with each Topic linking to a subsequent post within the very same thread.

Please just look at this example:
http://www.theflow.com/forums/showth...=&threadid=293

Edited to add: Example of a sticky thread formatted for Topic based groupings:
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showt...threadid=26522

For this contemplated vB sticky thread, each of the subsequent posts following the initial linked TABLE OF CONTENTS -- let's just take example post # 4 (perhaps "USER STATUS, DISPLAYS, PRIVILEGES") -- would contain the thread names and links for all the solutions related to that classification.

The idea would be to do one initial grueling attempt at classifying the vast bulk of released hacks, then pasting them into this one sticky thread. Yes, this requires a good amount of effort, but I would help, and I think lots of people would help.

After this first-pass Sticky thread were created, thereafter, when new hacks were released, maybe I'm very mistaken, but I don't think it would be so hard to edit the sticky thread -- let's say post #6 or whatever -- and add that new item into the body of the message.

If there were any real support behind this idea -- and I'd love to see it at least given a fighting chance -- then the Topic Classifcation # itself could become a part of a hacker's release, included in the subject line, as part of the release protocol. That would make it very easy for a Mod to make such edits easily to the Sticky thread. (I don't think this is too pollyana to be deemed impractical or absurd, and if someone didn't include the number, so what; the majority probably would.)

The result would be a growing topical index of solutions that would be pretty easy to skim & read by new users seeking answers to questions possibly already solved.

I agree that my suggestion isn't perfect either; and yes, I agree that there are certain hacks that are cross-overs. I also don't expect that such a list would be a "guarantee" that the classification of any hack release was accurate. I'm not even suggesting that my first-pass thinking on the categories is any good. What I'm ultimately suggesting is that an attempt -- even a very imperfect one -- to classify common requests and solutions, and to place those results in 1 editable superthread (like my example above) would offer a great service to users that I believe would (a) improve ability to find ready-made solutions and (b) would relieve some of the repetitive stress put upon Mods like you.

How much support is the staff supposed to provide for un-supported code modifications?

I hear that and respect it. Again, I don't think users here are looking for guarantees that all their problems will get solved -- even me, and yes, I admit I am trying to push the boundaries of what vB can do for me. I think that "caveat emptor" is the prevailing rule. We all understand that hacks are provided as a courtesy by those who write them, and that they are to be used at one's own risk. The only support I'm pleading for here is for a bunch of veterans to come together and make an initial pass at classifying the great hacks that already exist into some decent categories -- then create this one new resource. Then beyond that it's a fairly simple maintenance issue.

And you know what, if it all breaks down and proves to be a disaster and doesn't provide any further service to users, then okay, I'll pay you 5 hours @ $40/hr for your efforts in helping me try this. Maybe that's not enough money, but I'm seriously willing to pay you to help me help everyone else here. Please consider all of this in positive light.

We all want the same thing: Happy users who exploit the great vB software, and happy Mods who have less work, not more work.