Site content and legal questions

[amnesia623]

I have to break the beginning of this story down into small sentences because I' having a hard time getting it across correctly.

I started a forum and built it.
I sold the database and domain name to a user.
Since the sale, the community has split and some members started their own forum.
I have no control over either forum although I did impex that data into the new database.

The split was a nasty exchange of words and posts between the current owner, myslef, and the others. The others left the forum and started their own and now are claiming that the admin of the board they left is altering posts to 'suit his needs.'

While this is a small little community, there have been insinuations that legal action against the current board owner could be taken on the basis that some people are using their 'real names' and that altering posts will misrepresent the ideas and opinions that they are trying to express.

It won't ever get to the this point but it brought up some questions in my head of who actually is responsible for the content posted on forums.

In my mind and from everything I have read, the owner of the site is ultimately resposible for the content of the site. Also, as I understand it, the owner of the site can do what they wish with the site content. The opinion expressed in a post will always belong to the poster, but the typed content posted belongs to the site owner.

But who else can also control the content? Say I have a hosting agreement with a hosting company, do they have any say in the content of the site? Can they edit posts and such?

I know these questions are a little far-fetched, but I need to ask the obvious to help me understand.

What if a user posts a picture that portrays an illegal activity? Who's liable for the picture? Me as the admin or the person who posted the content?

Can one actually have legal action taken against them for editing a post?
Where is the line between user accountability and site owner responsibility?

Any thoughts on this would be great.

[Chris M]

The owner/admin of any forum should not (and in most cases cannot) be held accountable for any content posted by someone other than themselves; To do so would be unreasonable...

Since the person who posted neither owns nor administrates/moderates your website, they have no say in how it is run; Therefore if you choose to edit/delete posts at random, that is your choice, not theirs...

The "line" is rather invisible; If you believe you are doing right by your forum, and not giving away personal data to third parties, as far as I am concerned that is within your rights as the owner/admin of the board. If you start to divulge personal information, then you could face legal action if the person can prove that you did this intentionally, or that the information is of a sensitive nature, or the data is gathered by your site/forum and has then been re-distributed therefore violating privacy... (Again, it depends on how your site is run)

The simplest way, is to write Terms and Conditions of use, outlining what you will and can do on your own forum, and that by joining the forum, all users accept any legal or civil actions taken against them and that you and your staff are in no way responsible for the actions of others, that you and your staff have the right to edit/delete content and anything else that you could possibly want to protect yourself from...

Chris

[Marco van Herwaarden]

You are raising a lot of legal questions here. As i am not a lawyer (and law can vary among countries) i will not reply to those.

There is 1 thing i would like to add something to though:

In my mind and from everything I have read, the owner of the site is ultimately resposible for the content of the site. Also, as I understand it, the owner of the site can do what they wish with the site content. The opinion expressed in a post will always belong to the poster, but the typed content posted belongs to the site owner.

First of all this will again vary according to your local laws and your TOS.

You are however also raising something that most of us never give a second thought: How to handle content that you don't allow/want on your site.

A lot of times this is simple, someone makes for example a spam post and you delete the post. Nothing wrong with this, and you might even be forced by law to delete some content (for example if someone posted nude child pictures).

The dillema however starts if a post is partially against your rules. Deleting the whole post might not be needed or even put your members up against you. Editing the post or removing part of it however changes the opinion he wants to be posted. From a legal P.O.V. you might be wrong by editing, as you are manipulating a message that is 'copyrighted' / 'intelectual property' of the original poster.

So question is (and as i am not a lawyer i can not provide an answer) what should you do from a legal POV: Edit out unwanted parts of a post or only accept the whole message or nothing from it (ie. delete post).

[Freesteyelz]

Originally Posted by amnesia623

What if a user posts a picture that portrays an illegal activity? Who's liable for the picture? Me as the admin or the person who posted the content?

The user is liable unless the admin (or staff) was made aware of the illegal picture and did nothing about it. If the admin (or staff) did nothing then the site's owner can be held liable in the end. If the site's owner was made aware of the illegal pictures and did nothing about it then he/she will be held liable. In red are some distinctions of liability.

Originally Posted by amnesia623

Can one actually have legal action taken against them for editing a post?
Where is the line between user accountability and site owner responsibility?

It depends on the type of forum/site and the type or reasoning of edit. Specific information is needed.

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I'd like to caution about taking the TOS as law because it can always be challenged.

[amnesia623]

Is there any sort of history of any forum owner facing legal issues because of the edited content?

I know this isn't a legal based forum and don't expect to get legal advice.

If a person posts child porn, you delete it and make a note of the IP address just in case something comes of it. If a person threatens another with physical harm I would just make a note and ban the appropriate parties.

I usually have an 'open posting' policy on my board. You can post what you want as long as it's on topic and respectful to others. If a user violates this I delete the post and notify the user on why I deleted the post.

If it's a string of posts and that are breaking the TOS then I will close the thread and tell the board members to continue the conversation in a new thread if so desired. I am not a fan of editing posts because there is too much of a 'grey' area. Deleting the post is quick, easy, and avoids the 'you edited this for your convenience' aguements. It's all or nothing.

Also, what if someone asks to be removed from a board and all their posts be deleted, is there any obligation to do as such?

I'm not asking these questions to base any legal anything on, just general questions. I know that legalities are determined on physical location so I don't expect any specific answers.

[Freesteyelz]

Originally Posted by amnesia623

Also, what if someone asks to be removed from a board and all their posts be deleted, is there any obligation to do as such?

Here is where a nicely written TOS can be of great value.

Assuming the person came into the (let's say a public) forum and posted under his/her own cognizance a request for removal can be made but the forum owner is under no obligation to do so. The implied license here is that the forum owner was given the right to use the work in perpetuity. The forum owner will also have a case if other people had participated in the thread's discussion and by removing the person's posts would mess up the flow of the thread(s).

[Chris M]

Originally Posted by Freesteyelz

Here is where a nicely written TOS can be of great value.

Assuming the person came into the (let's say a public) forum and posted under his/her own cognizance a request for removal can be made but the forum owner is under no obligation to do so. The implied license here is that the forum owner was given the right to use the work in perpetuity. The forum owner will also have a case if other people had participated in the thread's discussion and by removing the person's posts would mess up the flow of the thread(s).

Just thought I'd throw a spanner in the works: If the person is from the UK, the Data Protection Act 1998 applies, and therefore if they request removal, unless you are issued a court order to retain their information you have to comply with the person's wishes or face legal action...

Chris

[Freesteyelz]

Wouldn't that be a privacy issue and not a copyright issue since the act protects how personal information is controlled?

[Chris M]

The original author has intellectual rights to the content posted, and if they ask for their posts and user data to be removed, you have to remove their posts. Not doing so could result in a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 as their details will still be attached to the post...

Chris

[Freesteyelz]

I see you've edited your post.

We're talking two different things here it seems. The forum owner can simply delete the user, removing all personal information from the posts, and issue the author as "Guest".

I understand where you're coming from but the issue again is with copyright and not privacy.