Should M. Vick get to play?

[Wayne Luke]

Originally Posted by VFTB

Actually, due to bankruptcy proceedings, he doesn't have anything left. Is that his fault? Yes, but it still doesn't make it right to give money as a reason to boycott him.

I am not boycotting him because he is making money. I am boycotting him because I believe he is a violent person who doesn't feel remorse for the evil that he has caused in the world. He has done nothing to atone for his deeds and earn his right to be among the rest of us. 23 months in a Federal Country Club is not atonement.

[Caddyman]

Did you write to the NFL for Ray Lewis? or Stallworth? or the other numerous felons that play?

[VFTB]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

I am not boycotting him because he is making money. I am boycotting him because I believe he is a violent person who doesn't feel remorse for the evil that he has caused in the world. He has done nothing to atone for his deeds and earn his right to be among the rest of us. 23 months in a Federal Country Club is not atonement.

What? You were the one a page or so back saying the only way you WOULDN'T boycott is if he gave up 95% of his salary... sounds like a money issue to me, but then again, maybe I'm on crazy pills.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally Posted by Caddyman

Did you write to the NFL for Ray Lewis? or Stallworth? or the other numerous felons that play?

Hmm.. Ray Lewis. Hard to tell on this one. The D.A. got an indictment through a grand jury which is as much about passion and storytelling as it about the evidence. However he plead it down to a midemeanor obstruction of justice charge. That tells me that the D.A. didn't have the evidence to pursue the murder charge beyond a reasonable doubt. Even without that, I doubt he went to a party with the intent to kill someone in a bar-room style fight.

Stallworth, DUI-Manslaughter. Pleaded Guilty, 2 years of house arrest, 8 years probation, community service and multi-million dollar settlement to the family of the victim. He didn't flee the scene. He didn't try to cover it up. Community Service in the case of DUI often involves anti-drinking advocacy.

Michael Vick on the other hand ran an illicit dog-fighting ring and admittedly killed many animals on his property through electrocution and drowning. Many more animals would have died in the fights and training. Often small animals are used to bring the viciousness out on the fighting dogs. These includes small dogs and cats and many other animals that can't defend themselves. Often in small cages where there is no escape. He did this for profit and fun with a willful intent to destroy these animals lives.

There are big differences between the cases. Michael Vick set out from the beginning to commit a crime. He tried to hide this from police once details started to come to light. And yet, people want me to support a violent person like this. With such a display of of blatant disregard towards life, I don't see how that is possible.

--------------- Added 18 Aug 2009 at 06:48 ---------------

Originally Posted by VFTB

What? You were the one a page or so back saying the only way you WOULDN'T boycott is if he gave up 95% of his salary... sounds like a money issue to me, but then again, maybe I'm on crazy pills.

I said if he gave up 95% of his money for the advocacy against the cruelty towards animals. If he was actually atoning for his misdeeds and showed remorse than I would believe that he has changed. He can't just give up his salary just to give it up. Even with 5% of his salary for 5 years, he would be making $80,000 a year or more so it is not like he would be deprived.

[Caddyman]

I don't need you to support anyone, I just think it's funny when I see people fly of the handle if anything involves animals. I like dogs like most people, my parents bred chows for the longest time. It concerns me more when someone kills a human then kills a dog....

I think what he did was despicable, just like you do, but I guarantee there are worse offenders both known, and not known, in the NFL.

I don't support the commish's decision to reinstate him, I don't support the eagles admin for signing him, but I will support the players that have been in this town and playing for our team. It is not their fault he got signed, they have to deal with it just like the fans do.

[Princeton]

Hi Princeton... would you feel the same if he killed a child drunk driving after repeat offenses? If it was your child, mother, sister or brother?

oooh, ahh, argghhh ... Am I suppose to bite at that?

if he was to repeat this offense I would agree with you; until then if you really want change spend your time and resources in changing the laws pertaining to animal cruelty - this way it doesn't happen again

boycotting the NFL - good luck

[VFTB]

Originally Posted by Princeton

oooh, ahh, argghhh ... Am I suppose to bite at that?

if he was to repeat this offense I would agree with you; until then if you really want change spend your time and resources in changing the laws pertaining to animal cruelty - this way it doesn't happen again

boycotting the NFL - good luck

Couldn't agree more.

[heatherw610]

Originally Posted by VFTB

So in your entire life, you've never done anything that you were sorry for because you got caught? In that case, could you go ahead and give me your blessing and send me on to heaven?

You are grouping all wrongs into the same catagory. Of course I have done things I was sorry for. The difference is what wrongs I have done were NOT intentionally inflicting physical, excruciating pain, and then DEATH upon anything.

Why would you even make an exception for that? It wasnt a ONE TIME "mistake" it was his LIFESTYLE that he took pleasure in.

[imported_silkroad]

First of all, I read most of the threads, and I was surprised by the emotion in the argument, and in fact, what I found more troublesome, was the degree of bitterness and hate this topic evokes.

Second, I don't eat much meat, and am almost a vegatarian because I don't like to eat or harm any living thing, so I think I am a nice person, LOL.

Third, having said that, I have travelled to over 40 countries, and the world is not a nice place, generally speaking. There is evil, corruption, murder, sexual abuse, financial crime all committed by humans against humans.

Forth, at least in the US, there are laws. The way it works is that if your are found guilty by your peers (as Vick was) and you have a debt to society (which Vick did) and then when you serve your debt (as Vick did), it is over and done with.

Fifth, on a more controversial note, people kill cows, chickens, pigs, and many other mammals every day. It is too extreme and overly hypocritical to say, no matter how well intended, "Vick is so evil, he killed dogs.... and at the same time eat a steak or a chicken, or another animal... or to go hunting and kill deer, birds, rabbits, etc."

Sixth, so what is worse that what Vick did, in my opinon, is extremism. Extremism is when someone, for what ever reason, usually out of love for an idea, or passion for a cause, believes in their view so much, they are willing to harm or hurt others for it.

Seventh... just read this thread. It is full of extremism.... and I say to you, this extremism is just a bad, or even worse, than what Vick did, in my mind.

Last, so regardless of emotional argument, and "feelings" the fact of the matter is that Vick has paid his debt to socieity and it's over. It's time to move on. Forgive and forget. and let By Gones Be By Gones.

I don't even watch football..... and I don't eat much meat..... I never hunt... and don't even like to kill insects, except mosquitos! I love dogs, I love people. However, Vick has paid his debt to society. He is the owner of his karma.

Let it be.

[Caddyman]

right

on my site someone brought up the point of catch and release when fishing...

that is cruel and inhumane, done for sports, should it be illegal?