Angry .Orgers

[Zachery]

Originally Posted by plubius

ok, I understand some of your points, but I do not understand the problem.

You have released some hacks. They are good hacks, I agree. However, if you are having all these problems, you can always igonore those that you did not create. Am I the only one that has "igonore user"?



I think you are wrong.

Nothing wrong with telling people that if they really want help there is a surchage esp when you are a busy person.

[plubius]

It was not eactly that i was addressing, Zachery. i think it is odd that we have vbulletin people here. Lord knows it cost us out the wazoo to buy a vbulletin, and now we have them here helping others to charge us more.

[Wayne Luke]

Originally Posted by plubius

It was not eactly that i was addressing, Zachery. i think it is odd that we have vbulletin people here. Lord knows it cost us out the wazoo to buy a vbulletin, and now we have them here helping others to charge us more.

Each hour that the add-on developers spend on this forum costs them money. Their bills are not free. Maybe you live in an utopian society where you do not need to pay for clothing, housing, food, water, medical, school and other basic needs. However, most of us do not. We have to balance philantrophic issues such as supporting this site and making it available at no cost with other real world issues such as those listed above.

This is not about being greedy. It is how the real world works and not everything in life is free. I am sorry that some people continue to refuse to see this but that is the way it is. Either use the channels provided here for free and respect the add-on authors wishes or expect to pay money for what you want. This is the same economy that has been in effect on this planet for the last 10,000 years and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

I see expecting everything on the Internet to be free and for others to slave to your satisfaction as the ultimate expression of greed.

By the way, anyone who approaches me outside of normal vBulletin support channels (support system, vBulletin.com forums, and telephone support) usually gets the same PM from me. I don't need work to intrude on my other interests in life and my family 24 hours a day. As far as having vBulletin staff here, this site is owned and operated by Jelsoft as a community venture. It is maintained by volunteers but all the bills are paid by your license fees.

[The Geek]

Plubis, sorry if you feel I was saying all orgers are ogres. That wasn't my intention and I apologize if anyone got that impression.

I can relate to your position (someone who relies on .org for free board modification) and one day you may be able to relate to some others that can become frustrated at times when you release a lot of work and support it here. Its not so simple to 'turn your back' on a hack and to not support it anymore.

Regardless - it wasn't even the intention of this thread. The intention was to try to get you guys to love the guys that CAN donate their time here FOC and not trash the ones that cant anymore.

Love thy coders.

[eXtremeTim]

Originally Posted by The Geek

Haven't been about as much lately since the whole "you are evil because you are going commercial" threads kicked off a few months ago.

I popped in today and was browsing about appalled to see the same mentality and anger toward people who decide that their time and investment should be met with something equal from the people who benefit from it.

In other words - a lot of angry .orgers with a mob mentality toward anything remotely commercial (although ironic that vB isn't lumped into this).

What is up? Sure, OK, .orgers rules: hear no commercial, see no commercial, speak no commercial - however I think its ridiculous to get all agro because someone who released something free then decides that its not worth his time continuing the process unless he gets something out of it. The funniest thing is that most agro/bullying in these situations come from people who do not contribute to .org, they are just users.

Please guys, not everyone can be devoted to code the hours of a part time job for you for free. Cut some people some slack otherwise you are going to have less and less talent here and more and more unfinished or half assed projects. It is true on many levels that you generally get what you pay for

On a similar note, it was discussed at some length ways to provide avenues for commercial and free scripts here. I'm not wanting to stir that up again - however this was awhile ago. Any further progress? I guess your priority is to upgrade to 3.5X first.

Really odd to see the 'ultimate (but only if its free) resource for vB' be on an outdated version. Kind of like going to a MS convention watching them demo on Windows 98 boxes (what kind of message does that send customers!)

Anyhooo - cant we all get along. There is a hell of a lot more in the world to get uptight about than 'hey, this guy was secretly planning on holding the world to ransom when his script came out of beta! He OWES US a final!' - many times people dont plan things that way - life somtimes just changes things.

(let the flames begin :tired: )

I am going to have to fully agree. I will always have some free hacks but my time is very valuable now. I cant go around releasing everything im working on for free. I am working on some comercial grade products now plus my last product is one that will save people in certain situations money and was never even intended to release.

I come up with certain works for my site that I never intend to release and then will sell becuase the demand is there for them. I mean if I were to release all my stuff that we never ment to be released for free then everybodies site would look like mine.

I work hard and am working on a wave of new high quality products some that I havent even released any details on anywhere yet. Is it so wrong that I spend hundreds of hours coding to make sites profitable for people and to be expected to release a script that will give you the power of ebay for free. I think not.

[webspider]

<my 2 cents>Both sides have valid points. As a VB user though I'd prefer to have a good reference for non and commercial hacks. So why not at least have a forum of links to commercial products. I have bought a hack from the Geek and I'm really happy with it. I can't say the same for some of the free hacks but hey you get what you pay for. </my 2 cents>

[eXtremeTim]

Originally Posted by amykhar

I have no problem with people changing their minds about hacks being paid after releasing them for free. The level of support required here can be overwhelming. I have tried checking the beta box, unchecking the supported box, putting things in my sig line and explaining about time limitations till I'm blue in the face. I'm still nagged daily on the board and via PM for added features and help when users foul things up. Heck, they even bug me to support hacks I didn't write and don't even use!

Amy

I got thro that to amy. I have people that come to my site and see changes I have made to a hack and start driving me nuts for it. Like even your hack is brought up lol. They ask me how the hell did I make my spiders show up on my portal lol.

I mean they even come and bug me at my not scripting related site.

[totenmaske]

Originally Posted by webspider

<my 2 cents>Both sides have valid points. As a VB user though I'd prefer to have a good reference for non and commercial hacks. So why not at least have a forum of links to commercial products. I have bought a hack from the Geek and I'm really happy with it. I can't say the same for some of the free hacks but hey you get what you pay for. </my 2 cents>

vBorg is awesome, unfortunately I fall into the category of an untalented user (can't code worth a d*mn) but respect those that can and don't mind compensating someone else to do what I cannot. That said I think that vBorg should maintain true to it's orginal purpose...free mods/hacks. However, a resource listing all paid hacks/paid coders would be an asset as well.

Now where did the guy with the Vodka go...I brought my shot glass along!

[plubius]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

Each hour that the add-on developers spend on this forum costs them money. Their bills are not free. Maybe you live in an utopian society where you do not need to pay for clothing, housing, food, water, medical, school and other basic needs. However, most of us do not. We have to balance philantrophic issues such as supporting this site and making it available at no cost with other real world issues such as those listed above.

This is not about being greedy. It is how the real world works and not everything in life is free. I am sorry that some people continue to refuse to see this but that is the way it is. Either use the channels provided here for free and respect the add-on authors wishes or expect to pay money for what you want. This is the same economy that has been in effect on this planet for the last 10,000 years and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

I see expecting everything on the Internet to be free and for others to slave to your satisfaction as the ultimate expression of greed.

By the way, anyone who approaches me outside of normal vBulletin support channels (support system, vBulletin.com forums, and telephone support) usually gets the same PM from me. I don't need work to intrude on my other interests in life and my family 24 hours a day. As far as having vBulletin staff here, this site is owned and operated by Jelsoft as a community venture. It is maintained by volunteers but all the bills are paid by your license fees.

I love it how these peeps try to lecture to you about "real life woes and problems."

You know nothing about me, mate, and I do not need your descriptions.

Save your lectures for the annointed. Oh and to be sure that I would never approach you outside normal vbulletin support channels. Maybe my lawyer if he is available, but not me.

Originally Posted by totenmaske

vBorg is awesome, unfortunately I fall into the category of an untalented user (can't code worth a d*mn) but respect those that can and don't mind compensating someone else to do what I cannot. That said I think that vBorg should maintain true to it's orginal purpose...free mods/hacks. However, a resource listing all paid hacks/paid coders would be an asset as well.

Now where did the guy with the Vodka go...I brought my shot glass along!

Right here, mate. Bottoms up.

[Hanif]

Simple economics, a penny for my thoughts

Every developer has some costs that are incurred, for many of us we pay bills, licences and broadband space. Many of us who are board administrators throw in a unreasonable number of hours in maintaining our site. For some the reward is simply the interaction and the pride and joy that comes from maintaining and running a site for free. For others they make a modest income from their site.

Yet lets be honest if your site was really popular and brought in people from far and wide, then how can you balance your life, your family and your job. It really is difficult, from my brief time on the board, I see that no one over here has retired, we are all either working and supporting ourselves and our families.

Even large sites like Yahoo, MSN, MySpace and others have a team of paid staff running their sites. By making money from advertising and other sponsorships they can afford to pay developers to enhance their site in order to draw in more traffic.

And same goes over here, if you want people to come to your site, aside from content alone, there must be ways of bringing in further customers. Maybe some customers simply want a banner on your forum, advertising others of their organisation, how are you going to cater for this?

Now you can craft a hack yourself, or, if like me save time and buy a script. It's as simple as that. For example, in your professional capacity in terms of employment what would you see as your charge out rate??? Maybe for some the hourly rate for their knowledge and experience to others is $50 an hour. Yet if you had to code a script like Geeks how long would it take you?? 10 hours? 15 hours??? Thus basic maths would turn out to be 10(hours) * $50(ones charge out rate) = $500(cost to code script). Thats if you know how to code!!!

Now, can that time be better spent by saving yourself the coding time and buying a script for less than $20? That way I know I am using the time more effectively and can use it elsewhere, above all, I know that by paying the developer s/he too can provide some justification that ok that the hours I spent coding this script I can support my family, pay the bills and so forth.

I am in no way saying I am not appreciative of the quality of free scripts offered here. I am eternally grateful for that. Yet you have to have a balance in life and I think for vb.org to grow we need to understand and appreciate that not everyone can throw in free scripts. Every coder has different demands placed on him/her in terms of life and the economic circumstances they are in.

vBulletin to me is without a shadow of doubt the best forum software out there, and to provide a quality product/service one can only carry this out for so long.

Until someone changes the law of economics or say, we introduce the barter system of trading I can't see why we should not allow commercial developers to advertise their products.

Kindest regards,

Hanif