More staff leave vB....

[Si...]

Originally Posted by Chimpie

Well, considering I flew to Houston to visit the HostGator's offices (my host), met with their front end staff, visited a training class, met with their office staff, met with their management, and I'm not spending anything close to $10k, yeah I would.

Same! I did that last August! They even fed me too. Lol. [Think it was because they liked British people. Lol]

So vBulletin has gone under new management. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing...

Where have I seen this before?

AH! So did Microsoft. Now look, they've got a new CEO, and Windows 7 is looking at being the best OS released by Microsoft, ever.

[No. MS-DOS was good, but it isn't the best. Be realisitic before you degrade my post.]

[KTBleeding]

Originally Posted by JacquiiCooke

Others won't, but then of course those will be the ones who can never be pleased by anything

That's a terrible blanket statement.. Personally, I've been more pleased and impressed with custom coding, and even open source platforms than I have been with the vB3 series for a couple of years now. vB4 could be a different story, or it could be even more unsatisfying..

My point is, you can't suggest that vB4 will be the greatest thing in the world, and anyone who disagrees with that will never be satisfied elsewhere, because it's simply not true.. at all.

[JacquiiDesigns]

I'm suggesting that I will be quite happy with vBulletin 4 - nothing more - nothing less. And the other statement I made is true. No need for argument about it. Disagree if you like = who cares? But at the end of the day - all of this bickering, prosthelytizing & conjecturing before the product is even out the alpha-testing gate is worth absolutely nothing. So while you might think my statement is "terrible" - know it as true.

It's been said that there are two different types of people: those with money and those with none. I merely say there are two different other types of people: those with a smile and those with a perpetual frown. Nothing wrong with what I stated bluntly.

Jacquii.

[KTBleeding]

I still disagree, you are trying to state factual information based on your opinion. I'm living, breathing proof that your blanket statement was false... Anyways, I disagree even more to this:

But at the end of the day - all of this bickering, prosthelytizing & conjecturing before the product is even out the alpha-testing gate is worth absolutely nothing.

If anyone from Jelsoft said that, I would pack my bags for good. As a valid license holder, you have a right to express concern when red flags pop up. And even more so, your expressions should never be ignored and thought of as "worthless". We are, after all, what keeps vBulletin alive. I've had two licenses, and been a paying customer for over five years now.. and to be told that my opinions are worth absolutely nothing would be extremely insulting, ignorant, and narrow-minded.

And for the record, I (and I imagine several others in this thread) aren't necessarily concerned with vBulletin and future releases more so than JELSOFT, and the future of the company. Granted, everything could end up fine.. Employees do come and go.. however, losing several KEY developers all at once puts the icing on the cake.. Something fishy is going on, and as a paying customer, I don't feel it's wise to just ignore it and hope for the best.. I want answers, and I'm sure a lot of others feel the same way.

[Shelley_c]

I disagree with you totally jacquii. The thread has turned out to be against customers not being able to express their concerns (what I've been saying throughout this thread). For some unknown reason, anyone showing concern (which is well within their rights as license holders) have that right to express their concern, for a software they have shown dedication to, and developed for for so many years. This isn't even about if vbulletin is going to be a success or not, but what the future holds, The companies agenda, which is concerning a lot of customers amongst other things. we can get into the whole conjecture and debate argument, but in no way has anyone flamed (which uk stated in his earlier responses). In no way have customers scare mongered (which was also accused). it's the ability for the customer to express their concerns which a few have made valid arguments for.

Now, in a totally different thread. I was asked by the same person what my views were, though when I expressed my views in this thread regarding allowing concern people being able to express their views this was slammed as scare mongering/flaming.

You point me to one instance where I or anyone showing concerns of scare mongering and/or flaming? I must have said this a hundred times, I am not concerned I have no doubt vbulletin 4.0 will remain the no1 forum script though the debate is now allowing people to express their concerns whther it's speculating/ factual or otherwise because whether people like it or not the last update by ray morgan didn't really specify a great deal and I'm guessing that the latest updated as just increased their concerns.

The thread is becoming quite repetitive and this only happens when certain people don't agree with the subject matter which isn't speculation.

Originally Posted by Ray Morgan

By way of dev update, there are two major tasks remaining before we release the vB Forums for alpha testing:

* Finish porting the new vB4 style into templates. In terms of developer-hours, this is the largest single task of the project, and because of the natural flow of development, it happens to come at the very end.

* Pre-alpha regression testing. The alpha release is the earliest point at which a build is usable without major problems, so this round of testing is to make sure that the release doesn't just fall over as soon as it's installed.

Alpha will proceed in two phases: Forums first, then the full Suite. Beta will probably also be phased, but we are leaving ourselves the option of starting beta for Forums and Suite at the same time if it makes sense to do so.

Also, thanks to the hundreds of you who have applied to participate in beta testing, and especially for following the application instructions so closely. (For those who have tried email, voice mail, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, carrier pigeons and smoke signals, you get props for creativity, but please help me out and see my previous post.)

In answer to a few FAQs:

When will pricing and licensing be announced?

When all of the details are worked out. (I know it seems like it should be easy, but trust me on this, it's harder than it looks.) This will be near the time of the gold release.

When will that be?

As soon as possible, but my best estimate at the moment is August, hopefully early in the month. Yes, we were hoping to be able to release before the end of Q2, but while everyone has been working hard and fast, we're committed to take the time necessary to get it right before releasing. We know you expect nothing less. :-)

Hurry up! Move Faster! No, wait, take your time! Make it better!

There are currently more people working on vBulletin that at any time in the product's history, and the pace is intense. We are moving as fast as a software project of this size can move.

In parallel with the template porting describe above, we have decided to also take some extra time to beef up some aspects of the CMS, which we feel is a wise investment of time.

More to come as events unfold...

I've quote rays last update. Highlighted in red is the last area before releasing for alpha test (information that some people will find usefull) it merley says it's nearly done.

Highlighted in green is an important question customers want to know but the response given is not answered.

Highlighted in orange is information that people know already, we know what alpha testing involves. You don't have to be a genius.

If that makes people comfortable, fine then that is well within anyones right, if your an already concerned customer, I have no doubt they have just got more concerned by the lack of information.

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by KTBleeding

I still disagree, you are trying to state factual information based on your opinion. I'm living, breathing proof that your blanket statement was false... Anyways, I disagree even more to this:


If anyone from Jelsoft said that, I would pack my bags for good. As a valid license holder, you have a right to express concern when red flags pop up. And even more so, your expressions should never be ignored and thought of as "worthless". We are, after all, what keeps vBulletin alive. I've had two licenses, and been a paying customer for over five years now.. and to be told that my opinions are worth absolutely nothing would be extremely insulting, ignorant, and narrow-minded.

And for the record, I (and I imagine several others in this thread) aren't necessarily concerned with vBulletin and future releases more so than JELSOFT, and the future of the company. Granted, everything could end up fine.. Employees do come and go.. however, losing several KEY developers all at once puts the icing on the cake.. Something fishy is going on, and as a paying customer, I don't feel it's wise to just ignore it and hope for the best.. I want answers, and I'm sure a lot of others feel the same way.

Oh God - didn't mean to inspire argument. I'm not in this thread to argue - trust me - I could spend my time better getting drunk or something. But the fact remains: There are some people who would not be happy with vBulletin if 4.0 Gold was released this very moment. There would be 100 threads about "We need this feature...", "Why was this feature not added to the release...?", "I think blablabla could be better..." etc... We know this as truth because it has happened with EVERY SINGLE VBULLETIN RELEASE SINCE THE INCEPTION OF VBULLETIN. There's nothing wrong with it - it's just fact: You cannot possibly please everyone at the same time - It's a logistical impossibility. Nothing more, nothing less.

So enough of that. No need to agree or disagree - it's just a fact.

I too am a paying customer. I too understand that concept that in a business - sometimes there are people getting the sack, others who move on to other things, some just simply die and a few tender their resignations for whatever reason, perhaps boredom... It's called life. And to be absolutely blunt - if you or I do not know exactly what has gone on behind the scenes with the vBulletin personnel - then it serves no purpose for us to spontaneously combust over hypothesis. Perhaps the absense of those who have left vB/IB will better the software in the long-run? Who knows? We don't know! The acute FACT of the situation is that it absolutely serves no purpose for us to speculate over what will be, when what will be has not arrived yet ==> If you haven't heard it from the horses mouth, then it is not a raucous neigh

Sure - My commentary is blunt and unemotional, but as far as I know - vBulletin (the software) is a block of code without any emotion, so my synonymous commentary is warranted and in good company.

Now - please do not misconstrue my commentary as saying "You do not have the right to worry about the progress and future of vBulletin." That IS NOT what I'm saying. Likewise - please do not assume to tell me that I'm telling you that you should not be concerned about vBulletin things. I'm not saying that either. I'm simply saying that I will not waste my time worrying about something I have absolutely no control over. I'm advising you to also not waste your time or energy worrying over something that you cannot change. That's a fool's game.

And though I'm foolish at times - I like to think that I'm more laidback and nonchalant. So - when you see me smiling as if there's no trouble in the world, know that I am probably sipping on a beer or smoking something which should be made legal. I will NOT be worrying about whether IB seeks out Kier to lick his behind and get him back on the vB team.

At anyrate - nothing but love for my fellow vBNerds. I hope this explains my feelings about this entire thing. I am not seeking to make any enemies; I can do bad by my damn self. I am not seeking to ruffle anyone's feathers, but then again I have never been much for goose down. I'm blunt in my opinion and convinced that my statement applies to ME only and as the saying goes -- what necessarily is for the big fat golden goose may not be for all the American-made muts.

Jacquii.

ps - hopefully through all of that - I have at least inspired a smile

--------------- Added [DATE]1246073887[/DATE] at [TIME]1246073887[/TIME] ---------------

Originally Posted by Shelley_c

I disagree with you totally jacquii. The thread has turned out to be against customers not being able to express their concerns (what I've been saying throughout this thread). For some unknown reason, anyone showing concern (which is well within their rights as license holders) have that right to express their concern, for a software they have shown dedication to, and developed for for so many years. This isn't even about if vbulletin is going to be a success or not, but what the future holds, The companies agenda, which is concerning a lot of customers amongst other things. we can get into the whole conjecture and debate argument, but in no way has anyone flamed (which uk stated in his earlier responses). In no way have customers scare mongered (which was also accused). it's the ability for the customer to express their concerns which a few have made valid arguments for.

Now, in a totally different thread. I was asked by the same person what my views were, though when I expressed my views in this thread regarding allowing concern people being able to express their views this was slammed as scare mongering/flaming.

You point me to one instance where I or anyone showing concerns of scare mongering and/or flaming? I must have said this a hundred times, I am not concerned I have no doubt vbulletin 4.0 will remain the no1 forum script though the debate is now allowing people to express their concerns whther it's speculating/ factual or otherwise because whether people like it or not the last update by ray morgan didn't really specify a great deal and I'm guessing that the latest updated as just increased their concerns.

The thread is becoming quite repetitive and this only happens when certain people don't agree with the subject matter which isn't speculation.



I've quote rays last update. Highlighted in red is the last area before releasing for alpha test (information that some people will find usefull) it merley says it's nearly done.

Highlighted in green is an important question customers want to know but the response given is not answered.

Highlighted in orange is information that people know already, we know what alpha testing involves. You don't have to be a genius.

If that makes people comfortable, fine then that is well within anyones right, if your an already concerned customer, I have no doubt they have just got more concerned by the lack of information.

Hmmm - I think actually I am more like you Shelley - I can't be bothered to give a damn actually hahaha - well - unless the damn has a red wig - then I could flirt and bring the damn right on over to my side :P

Seriously though - My last post cleared it up for me I hope - I'm not saying that people shouldn't be concerned - I only mean to say that I am not too much concerned - I think Ray's post was a nice one - He basically said that things are not completely clear - so there's not any more information to add. He says that when things are clear - he'll pass on the information to the vB customer base.

I think there's a lot of cynicism in this thread: speculation & cynicism which is doing nothing but making everyone's blood pressure rise ==> I suppose it's a good thing I am already taking blood pressure medicine....

Anyway - I like to think that I am the most pessimistic optimist that has ever lived. When vBulletin is concerned - I like to think that I as an adorer of the software will not be disappointed when the 4.0 series is made golden! I like to think that I will be able to look at some of the cynics and say "See - I told ya - nothing to worry about - the version is good and all the worry was over nothing, now come and give Ms Jacquii a big fat kiss."

Don't ask me why (cause I don't know) --- but I have high hopes that what Floris said about vBulletin being the best online interactive forum application available will continue to be the gospel rather than a lie. I've invested a lot of time myself with vBulletin - so it is in my best interest to be optimistic about this thing. Otherwise I'd be a fool, a sore looser & an idiot with a very tasty cherry wheat beer in hand

Jacquii.

[KTBleeding]

Jacquii -- Perhaps we are just giving each other the wrong impression. I understand now what you mean by you can't please everyone, and I agree. There will be people (I'm one of them) who are unhappy with parts of vB no matter what version it is.. It's human nature. I misinterpreted your comments. I thought you were pretty much saying, "stop complaining.. vB is the best and you'll never be happy with something else", so I do apologize for sort of calling you out on that one.

And me, I have no intentions of arguing here either, and I am not meaning to come off as hostile.. If I got worked up over something like this, I couldn't imagine what condition my heart would be in.. I've got plenty more things to worry about.

All that being said, I am completely relaxed as well, and to be honest, all this vB drama only affects me maybe 0.1%... I'm trying to express why I feel people have a right to be concerned, and that whenever red flags pop up in a company, there is valid reason for questions. Speculating? Probably not.. but expecting answers? I don't think that's too much to ask as paying customers. I don't think people should be worried about vB4 in the slightest bit, but I do think that being worried about the status of Jelsoft is justifiable..

Also:

smoking something which should be made legal

WORD!

[Burnt]

Wow.. Some people are crazy..

Anyways I think its way to early to be concerned.. If vb4 did turn out to be shit at first why get all bent out of shape when you could still use vb3? When you see 90% of the people leave and a message saying we are closing our doors. Thats when I'd be concerned cause there would be no coming back from that. Atleast with the change of people you know they have to have some knowledge of what they are doing. If they didn't there are some really dumb people doing the hiring.

I can find more pressing news to worry about like why hookers and pot are still illegal?

[JacquiiDesigns]

haha - Didn't mean to be a thread killer... But then again - Perhaps I did LMAO

Jacquii.

[Freesteyelz]

Originally Posted by UKBusinessLive

Not sure if anyones thought of this but, perhaps they felt a time to move on was right. Nothing to do with the work or anything related?

I haven't been here for a while so I'm looking from the outside-in. The changes that are taking place are significant. Long time, key developers and support staff, do not ordinarily leave in uniform unless there is conflict of interest or other. It may be true that they decided that the time was right to spread their wings. I'm just finding everything a bit surreal at the moment.

vBulletin 3.8+ seems like a positive upgrade from 3.7 series so I think I'll go ahead with that. There's a lot of talk about 4.0 and I really don't know how it'll perform until I see it. I will not say that the changes are good or bad. I'll just wait like the rest and see.