US, UK and Spain opt to use force rather than the UN route - How obese...
 

In this instance, obese = anything rather stupid:) (And any other reference to corpulent, rotund, portly etc)

I cannot believe that the corpulent George Bush has gotten into bed with the extremely rotund PM of the UK, and are going to war with Iraq against the UN, and the majority of the British people...

Whats your view?:p:D:p

Satan

I'm still amazed at that lot. [nods] War almost seems certain now which I try not to think about much of the time.

actually the english opinion has swung just in favour of the way now but to be honest, i don't really care, just pick one or the other and get it over and done with, i am ashamed of Blair tho and anyone who goes to war against un wishes deserves to be tried as a war criminal, i think thiers better places we could've gone for first like Zimbabwe for one :|

I take a quote from my recent MSN Conversation, what I typed, and my friend:)

I don't believe that any truer words were spoken;)

(I am "Chris" btw;))

:p

Satan

Your simply blind the truth my friend. France and other countries are vetoing the proposal of a second resolution because they have foreign interests. Lets face it the US won the cold war and Russia are bitter for that - i personally feel they're government is issueing their veto to be bitter towards the US and allied forces...

France have interests of their own. It was reported that france produces billions of dollars of revenue from Iraq last week so that explains why they're issueing their veto.

I don't blame the US, UK and Spain for ignoring the UN now because they are just being unfairly ignored by the countries have the power to veto. I say go for it. This issue is not going to be resolved by the UN and i fear if the UK, US and Spain leave the issue any longer then UN will stall longer and longer until the presence of the UN will be minute. I hope that the three allied countries have learnt their lessons from the League of Nations :)

- miSt

Erm...

I agree with France and Russia - This can be resolved peacefully:)

Satan

On what grounds? The fact that the only reason they are veto'ing the proposal is because they have an alterior motive?

What do you suggest then?

- miSt

I just said - Find a peaceful solution...

I hardly think that the American and British Forces going in "Guns a blazing" will help solve anything...

Besides - Don't you think that innocent people will be killed by this? I am sure that they say they wont, but tell me - Can you tell an explosion caused by a Cruise Missile hitting a supposed military target, not to harm civilians?

I think not;)

Satan

The following link sums up my opinion of the situation and view of these ignorant anti-war protestors. This is a radio clip of an interview conducted between a former Iraqi citizen and anti-war protestor. I have numerous videos and other media that portrays the same idiocy. What do they all have in common? Not a single anti-war person can explain how to resolve the situation without military action. These people who protest blindly for peace (even though they routinely get arrested for violence during peace protests) are what?s wrong with this country. With that said, here is a quote for you all to chew on:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself".

--John Stewart Mill--

Right Click > Save Target As

http://komo1000news.com/audio/kvi_aircheck_031003.mp3

I'm an avid watcher of such political shows as the O?rielly Factor and Hannity & Colmes, and hold opinions that can best be described as.. more conservative, very little liberal, but with the the current status of the war as of today after the address by President Bush, there is much that can be concluded. The UN and their influence is over, they've proven to be incompatible with just about all our decisions and needs, so they can return back home and play croquet for all that matters. France seems to be a large moral enemy to many Americans right now, with the fact that according to a poll from Foxnews.com, over 96% out of more than one million pollsters voted that they supported a U.S. boycott against France. If you listened to O'reilly today, you'd know that he quite despises many of the French policies, and will learn in greater depth why the U.S. is so opposed to them right now for declining to help us. Saying this, I wont go further into the France dilemma.

More than likely the U.S. within days are going to begin the invasion into Iraq, as many liberals and anti-war protestors have feared so for months. I personally think this conflict will be over within a month, if not less presumed by some politicians on news (1 week some say). Saddam is more than likely to fear for his life when the invasion takes place and escape the country being exiled, as the President today has asked him so. I'll shut up now since I've gone into this stuff enough on my own forum. ;)

It's good to have some political debates once in awhile on this forum though :p

Hehe...Indeed it is...

How can we solve this issue peacefully?

I believe that France and Germany had the perfect solution - Make the UN Weapon Inspectors make Iraq destroy all their weapons...

I might like to add, that who was it that sold Iraq the weapons in the first place? The US...

It seems that America's idiocy in selling Iraq weapons to fight Iran was wrong;)

Satan

Haha the UN weapons inspectors have no authority. We had to force saadam to allows inspectors in, we had to force him to declare certain things, he didn't declare many of his weapons. The inspectors can't do anything. It is only the brute force of troops that can sort this shambles of a regime out. I'd love to talk to an iraqi person about this...

- miS

Let me teach you guys something ;) The 'littleuns' and some of the 'biguns' do not understand how this will work.

Let me take you through the steps.
You guys think now since Blair and Bush have got what the want, and the majority of the people of each country are against it, they are stupid. Well sure they are stupid, but if they know it will hurt their political future, I am sure they would not start it.

Another note, Bush can't step back, due to sense of pride and dignity, same with Blair. They stepped into something, and if they backup, there never going to get voted again. Now here is how I see it will work.

1. They will attack Iraq
2. They will help rebuild Iraq, settle a full military operation there
3. Show how much Iraq has benifited from this
4. Prove to the citizens of their countries how what they did was right
5. Try so hard to do good, by helping out countries
6. Sit in hope to get voted again

Those are the steps, both what I think will happen. There is no point is bashing the leaders of the countries, they got what the wanted, we just have to see what happense. At the end of this "operation liberation of Iraq" is over, the Propoganda steps in.

Now at the moment we cannot do anything.

Bright side to this, if US wins, gas prices will go down, Iraqis will have a more peaceful and democratic land, and there will be a sense of security to many people. Even the surrounding middle-eastern countries have took a stand. (Israel).

Now what is my opinion? I got to admit my opinion is clouded by propoganda, but from past historical events, I think what I am about to say is right.

Iraqis deserve better, thousands of thousands of Iraqis die in that country due to lack of interest from the government, lack of food, clean water, now some blame America for this, because they stopped the providing of humanitical support, but wouldn't you say its the leader of the country who must look out for his people? There are many sick children from malnutrition, over 80% of the population live in poverty, they have no rights, but Sadaam supposodly says there are rights and holds "Show" elections, where he some how gets 100% of the votes. I think to get rid of this government that Sadaam has running, will mean better for the Iraqis, without a Dictatorship in that country, outer countries are able to provide support, and gain support in many ways (Resources), they can make thousands of new jobs, establish healty trading relations. With healthy trading comes, healthy living and much more plus sides. Sure U.S is interested in oil-, but you have to face historical facts, and base your opinion on them.

Also another note, no matter the size of the U.S army, I think the Iraq army has learned from the past 'mini-war', and Iraq's confidence does really seem wierd looking at the fact of U.S Army size. From this, I think the U.S and Allied forces must get the job done immediatly, before they suffer great losses.

Your warped perspective of the past is extremely disturbing. Could you please list for me what weapons the United States sold to Iraqi? I mean, you must know if you can so firmly say we did. I can make you a small list right now of previous sales and current interests involving Germany, France, and Iraqi.

Let?s start with?. hrm?. The NUCLEAR REACTOR France sold to them. You should also take a look at the raw numbers?. like how many billions of dollars Iraqi owes Russia, the endless list of military equipment France sold to them including the Mirage jet fighter, and overwhelming percentage of OIL they both DEPEND on from Iraqi.

You sir are a victim of propaganda.

You guys say we can settle this peacefully. By forcing Iraq to get rid of the WOMD? How? All they have to do (and have done so far) is keep moving them ahead of where the inspectors are at or not allow the inspectors into certain areas (which has also happened many times). I don't know about anyone else, but one Sept. 11th was already too much, we don't need another one while we sit and wait for Iraq to comply. I do believe that we should always try to settle our problems peacefully, but when that fails there is no other choice but to use force. There will be a lot more good come out of all of this than there will be bad, no matter how it goes. I'm sure if Russia and France had had their own Sept. 11th, this would all be mute right now. And think about this, who is the father of the President of the US? As the former head of the CIA, can you expect any less of him? Like it or not, the CIA knows a lot more about what is really going on than the average American does. It's easy to sit back and holler "make love not war" when there is no immediate threat to your way of life. Have that threat, and the song they sing changes very quickly.

'Nuff said. ;)

I'm all for this inevitable war. There really isn't anyway to resolve this peacefully. If there was a way to resolve this peacefully, then it would already be resolved and we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

But isn't is suspecious how Sadaam has stated that he will fight the U.S and win?

He must of learned, no leader is such an idiot, I am guessing he really has something planned that will take hundreds of thousands of lives. I just have this feeling.

Also about the weapons case, I believe there is information out there that U.S had given Iraq warheads, and other weapons to attack Iran. Many people have said this, I know I have read articles on this, but till I can be sure do not take my word on it.

Think about that. What would you do if someone bigger, badder and stronger said to you "get ready, we are going to fight"? When you have no choice and you want to hold on to what you have forcefully taken for some many years, then you get in there an scrap it out with the best of them. If he turns and runs now, he will never have another chance to hold on to the power he has over his country and he knows that. I don't know how many people remember Libya when he was our Saddam (a fly that needed to be swatted). He said the same things and acted the same way until we went over there and set him straight. he may have whined and belly-ached about America after that but he wasn't the pest he used to be then.

@dog - I don't have to prove it - It is common knowledge...

No...I am not a victim of propaganda - I am anti-war, because American and Britain have had a "guns a blazing" attitude...

I can say, that although Saddam has performed attrocities to his own people, the UN sanctions on Iraq have caused alot of deaths...

Yes - The UN does have power - Saddam just refuses to acknowledge it...

To be honest, I am entitled to my opinion - I thought this could become a debate on the rightness and wrongness of war, not personal attacks on whether someone is a victim of propaganda or not...

Whatever anyone says here today, the US and Britain are going to war, and there is nothing we can do to stop it...I don't agree with it, but at the end of the day, if that is all they feel they can do, then I guess they have done the best that they can...Personally, I feel more could have been done before military action was necessary, but I will now say that although I don't agree, I do not condemn the idea of action being taken, I just fear that it will be done wrongly, and get lots of innocent Iraqis killed...

Satan

NO WAR IN IRAK!

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2003/03/2.gif

Yup Karsten...

Meiner Meinung nach, ist George Bush bl?d:D

A mon avi, George Bush est b?te:D

^In my opinion, George Bush is stupid:D

---

In any language, it all sounds good:p:D:p

Satan

@ Hellsatan, du sprichst 3 Sprachen?
Du hast v?llig recht! :)

Ja Karsten...Ich sprache 2 Fremdsprachen...Ich will Spanisch und Italienisch lernen...:)

Danke;):p

Wie gehts?:D

Satan

I come from a strong military background as both my parents and numerous aunts/uncles are currently serving or have served in the US Air Force. Currently my little sister is in the AF.

I think war sucks. As do many of you. Who could possibly like war? But this doesn't mean it's not necessary at times. At right now, I think it's about necessary.

I am pro-peace and if it takes war to get there, then so be it. I know that sounds like an odd statement, but it seems to work quite well.

While a peaceful solution to disarming Iraq would be nice - it's already failed. France, Germany, Russia, and the others say we need to wait longer for Iraq to comply with weapon's inspectors and disarm. However, it's already been many months of non-compliance from the Iraq government. Only recently have the Iraqi's been forthright with some of their weapons. How much longer should we wait? Until it's too late?

Boofo already stated the main key in the debate - the Men in power have a lot more information than the commonman does. IE - There are probably hundreds of viable reasons to disarm Iraq immediately, including intercepted threats directly from Iraq, that we do not hear about as it's "classified" information.

I don't necessarily agree with everything the American government does. And I don't necessarily agree with the way Bush presents the issues to the public. But I do agree that a country should support their government as best they can. We live in a democracy which gives us the freedom to like or dislike our leaders. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't support the people who are working hard to keep our freedom intact and keep the global community in peace.


ETA.... Iraq has previously been unwilling to comply with requests to prove their weapons stockhold or prove that the weapons in question have been destroyed. However, Saddam has made such serious threats against us that basically tells me he has the weapons he's been lying about this whole time. If he has truly been complying with the UN Resolution, allowing inspectors to do their jobs, showing proof of disarmament/destroying weapons - then his threats have no basis.

Mindless babble.... oh that is my oppinion.
I find great comfort knowing that you are not in a position to let evil CONTINUE to waste human lives.

My view is - I can not improve on the last post made by ROSE. I will add this though: Bush was right, and the UN and the major nations against the war were all against it because of corruption.

All you people that cried about the UN not giving the go ahead for us to go to war... what do you have to say about the Oil for Food scandals?Are you just going to brush those off and continue to show your ignorance by bashing Bush?

I'm sick of France, Germany and Russia. More so now than ever with the oil for food scandals.

Its just pure ignorance

The silence is deafening.

Isnt it....