$3,500 lost in add-on development -- My advise to you
 

I'm going to start off with a simple truth. And that truth is I am not going to name the developer. Why? Because I do not want to go back and forth into a "he said, she said" type argument or intentionally cause drama.

And I'll even close with that thought with my own self admittance that my last comments to this developer was not tasteful or professional, but rather "heat of the moment talk" after learning that they were keeping my money without any return.


So the point of this thread?

My advise to everyone is go with your gut instinct. No matter how recommend someone else or accomplished someone here may seem, go with your gut instinct. This is something I did not do and in the end, I hold myself to blame for not listening to that little voice in my head, which told me maybe this developer is not the right person for the job.

The person in question has burned or disappointed others. There was a large project they had suggest they were going to complete, but never did. But before this action they were highly recommended and a lot of people referred this person to me.

But my own gut instinct told me they seemed "short" with people. By that I mean shot worded and maybe short tempered (quick to anger). Not exactly a "people person".

I dismissed this as a persona trate and figured that I could overlook this as they seemed to be very good with code. And so long as the job was done, I would be happy.

$3,500 later and I regret to inform you all that at this time there will be no alternative Arcade as noted about 1 year ago when I hired this individual.

So again, my advise to everyone is trust your gut. Do not just accept recommendations or praise from other. No matter how well recognized the individual.

Sorry to hear but I count at least 3 free working arcades out there - ibpro, v3, dbtech... how many more did you need? :p

A lot for a arcade when there a working ones out there that i am sure for a small fee could of been changed to what you wanted coded

I dont think the number of working arcades was really the point of this.

Im a little curious however as to how anyone would manage to pay $3,500 and have nothing at all.

Is that what you are telling us ? that you got nothing at all ? I would never, in a million years, part with that amount of money in one go.

I would be paying in installments, only as installments of working code were passed back to me. Anyone who would not agree to that, would not be doing work for me.

It was installments and the working prototype was kept on their end. As development and progress continued so did payments. This was over the course of a year. However one day development stopped and so did communication.:(

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The development was not for vBulletin, but rather another development. Never the less, the advise applies universally regardless of the platform.

If there was a long term relationship with a developer, they'd be sending me what they had finished. I wouldn't pay more than a deposit 20%~ without getting some working code. Esp not over the course of a year.

I certainly can empathize with your situation, up to the point of making a public statement without including more facts. Deals go wrong and you certainly dished out enough money to feel wronged, but is it a tort? Was he delicit?

Not that it is ideal, but another programmer could pick up where he left off given enough incentive. Sounds to me like you need to find the right programmer and cut him in on the resale of the product or something of that nature. Have a legal third party write out the contract, even though it might never be affordable to enforce it. You never know where a business venture will take you.

Anyway, I wish you good luck and I hope you can work out some alliance with the developer. A little bit of his time working with a new programmer can save you a ton of money. It is well worth to agree to disagree and have a path beyond the dispute for the sake of the product.

Sincerely

I was not just shelling out money in good faith. I wouldn't be that foolish.

The was a working prototype to which I could and did actually touch, see, and use. And as the work progressed so did the payments.

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To answer a few questions I have received in both here, else where, and in private....

I will not intentionally name the developer or point to hints. Partly because as my advise suggest, I did not follow my own gut instinct and so I feel I have partly, thought by a minority, myself to blame. I should have followed my own gut instinct and listened to that little voice in my head.

However, for those of you who are seeking a developer and do not want to mistakenly pick this individual, as not to completely leave you out in the dark with no life line....

I can make a suggestion and say that Chris Deeming and cclaerhout are wonderful developers. Here on vBulletin BirdOPrey5 is also someone I would recommend. If you need help, I would suggest them. You can tell them I said so. :)

Yes, there was a working prototype to which I could touch ("feel"), see, and use. As work continued on the developer's end, so did the payments. So no, I didn't just shell out funds on "good faith", but actual work which I slowly saw take shape.

The alternative arcade had many planned features. This included

• Support for standard v16 and v32 type games
• Support for multi-player games
• Self installing games
• Rating gating
• Top score
• Leader board
• Comments on scores
• Responsive design
• Support for html5 mobile web friendly games
• User permissions / group settings
• Integration with the "spam cleaner"
• Game Campaigns
• Steam Integration
• Comments / reviews on game

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and Im sure you realise this now, but .....
I would not pay anything until I had the code, not a remote working system I can simply see, but code "in my hand", that I can install myself and test.

It was agreed upon that I would not obtain a copy until the work was finished and I had paid everything that was due.

To my knowledge, this is standard for most developement. You don't recieve anything until the work is completed and you've paid for the final agreed upon price.

If I'm expected to pay upfront, I expect to get something in return, not only see something. Especially since I would want to see the code in order to judge code quality. If I decide at any given point that I am not satisfied or want to discontinue the project, I have the code that has been produced until that time, and the coder has the money for what he coded until that moment.

I had seen some of the code, but not the whole package. Given 1 or 2 key files as "examples" of what was going into the whole package. Nothing that could be used by it's self mind you, but enough to see that things were being worked on and that the code was sound.

The developers stance was he was protecting himself from me just taking the work and running. My stance for paying him in installments was along the same lines.

To everything there is 2 sides of a coin. At the time I understood where it seemed he was coming from.

I know it kinda makes me sound like a smartass, and I apologize for it, but how would that arrangement protect anyone but the coder? You pay installments up front and get nothing (substanial) in return. How would it be against the interest of the coder if you got your hands on the unfinished versions? He coded them so far, and you pay him for the work he has done so far. If you take that code, you have already payed for it. He has the money, you have the code. In your model, he has the money, and you have nothing.

Because the agreed upon price was greater.

Which comes first the chicken or the egg.... The product or the payment.

From his arguement, I can see someone being worried if they gave the customer X package & not getting paid for it. Just as I can see it from where I stand now, paying and not getting X package.

Somewhere, someone has to go first. In either case that individual runs the risk of being scammed.

I'm sorry to hear you got burned.

That principle might hold for a tiny project, but not for $3,500, no way should you ever have agreed to that. :(

The project should have agreed milestones, each representing working features, and payments made and code exchanged for each installment. Indeed, for a project that size I would probably insist on code being checked into something like a shared svn repositry. If either breaks the agreement, you have what you have paid for so far, and they have been paid for the work they have done so far.

Unfortunately, none of this helps you, but hopefully others will learn from it.

This is the first time I ever opt-in to to go hire someone online (beyond just small task under $20). Live and learn.

I am sorry to hear that, I hope you can work something out with him to get the process going again.

I'm "decent" now but considering the fact I grew up fairly poor and had to fight my way to the top... $3,500 is quite a bit of money.

Honestly if it were me I'd be pursuing any avenue of action I could, if you didn't sign an NDA then now is the time to start talking, I'd do enough talking to earn $3,500 that's for sure, social media is awesome hint hint.

How someone can assume they are simply keeping the money for time spent is beyond me... sure we've all had that one seemingly insane client but even then we have no right you simply refund and go about your business, this should have been the case with you they should have refunded your money or in the least considering time spent on the project refunded at least I repeat at least 85-90% of it if not all.

^ The thing is, years ago working for a company I would have said full refund, now owning my own and knowing time involved in modifications I can see how they may assume it's ok to keep the money but ALL of it? No sir some type of refund is certainly due, that's APPARENT imo and keeping it all would be wrong plain and simple.

As far as I understand the pricetag was significantly higher, and the 3500 bucks were part payment. So depending on the amount of work done the coders may even be entitled to the money. But then they need to hand over the code. Either the code, and it has to show the hours, or the money.

Ahh I see, after making coffee and returning to the thread to sip on it... now I see LOL and yes agreed on code being handed over. Entitled to the money perhaps, why I mentioned a 85-90% refund, just an iffy situation to be stuck in imo and I hate it for him.

Edit: Time for more coffee!

I grew poor. I'm talking dirt poor. As a child, I was the kid who's sneakers looked more like sandles, with my toes sticking out of them. I worried about things most people I know, didn't even think about & maybe never will.

I'm far better off today, but I still have that mind set. There is part of me that will always see the value of a dollar as greater than its true worth.

So when I spend money online or anywhere, but mostly online because its a digital goods or services which I can't phsyically hold or touch. And so a part of me still feels as though I'm getting nothing, even when I do get something....

$1 = $1,000 In my head.

I've got that strong mind set that every penny needs to be held onto and saved or justified.

Even though today, I can obviously afford to do the things that I do.

I still am very thifty on most things. I have taken my history and learn from it and so I know how to manage well. For example, I've learned how to get phone service for $50 for the whole year, thus not needing to pay a monthly bill. Just because I have that mind set.

The developer who has scammed me.... He's going to get his. Trust me on this.

You and most others in this world, until it loses reserve currency status. :D