Stop closing threads
 

this thread here did not get out of hand and i was watchin it very closely.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthrea...=126417&page=4

Shutting threads without a valid excuse just gets peoples backs up.
End of day they posted in the lounge and just cause a mod deems its not suitable dont mean it should be shut.The thread in question raised a few questions and in shutting the thread what you are saying (vb.org) is that if u pay for a hack and something goes wrong then dont come posting on here cause u wont be allowed to post good/bad comments because we dont condone the hiring of hackers.
Basically you on your own.But the person who ripped you off is free to offer his services to other members.

If thats the case then maybe vb.org needs to rethink its strategy on the

Service Requests
For the request of paid service providers like programmers, designers or webmasters. This forum is only for PAID REQUESTS and NOT for OFFERS

If people hire someone from a site then surely they are entitled to make a comment or even a thread.This lets everyone know what is going on and can stop other people from hiring or passing on money to these people.
Also the guy who started the thread does have a valid point and i agree with him posting here as proberly do many others.
He was ripped off simple as and wants a few questions answered so is vb.org gonna re-open the thread in question ????

Also i may seem a bit strong on my views above as vb.org is a good site but play fair and let everyone have a say.

No - the thread will not be opened. The thread turned into a blantant attack on the person in question, and stopped being a general thread. Everything going on in that thread basically could have been handled in private.

vBulletin.org is NOT responsible for the transaction that take place from Service Request. We have a set of guidelines that should be followed when completely a service request.

We are looking to implement a system to help users give some sort of feedback after a transaction takes place...

and they where well within their rights to complain.Maybe private is a good idea but as was mentioned the guy would not reply to emails so what else where they to do.
If you are not prepared to let people whinge on your board if people rip them off then maybe you should consider removing the paid for services till you get something into place.
Guidelines are ok if they work but if you get ripped off then your basically saying dont come back here telling us cause we simply dont want to know.

Can u clarify this point ??

Members are allowed to state if they had trouble with someone. The thread in question got out of hand. Handling and discussing 3rd party transaction with the vendor should be done in private and outside of vbulletin.org.

I have to say, if this hack or hacks was posted before as paid requests (not sure if it was) on this site. I totally agree with lasto, the thread should have been left open.

The guy was not contacting them back via emails or anything. Otherwise they would have dealt wth it in private with him. They came here I'm guessing because it was a paid hack request on this forum originally, and did this as a last resort to get somewhere.

Got to say, I do think in this case the decision to close that thread was wrong. I thought most of the people in that thread were keeping there cool quite well and not letting it turn into flames from what I read. Which is quite good seeing as were talking about cash being involved here. Maybe a mod should have posted saying lets keep things cool or something, rather than just posting what he did, then closing the thread.

thing is threads get closed when things start getting out of hand.Which it clearly was`nt.Some people wanted answers but all you done now is basically cut off their only hope off getting a reply to their questions.Because now the guy can totally ignore his Emails/PMS or even Messengers and they left hanging high.

Serious something needs to be done.A platform (section) should be made available for members or even VBCoders to report in a thread if

a - a coder does not deliver the code
b - person who hired the coder refuses to pay.

Everyone said what they had too. The person in question replied, and asked those with concerns to email him. I don't see what more could be done?

The thread was turning into a soap opera....The original discussion of the thread was to discuss when a Commercial Mod author is idle for a period time. Not "It's been x hours, you owe me y, I want it by z."

As I said earlier, we are discussing plans to implement a solution to satisfy the clients and the coders.

yep but discussing it aint actually helping - maybe it will do in the long run but at moment it aint.

How many coders do you think have been ripped ?
How many Customers do you think have been ripped off ?

Surely if its for a vbulletin board then they should be allowed to discuss freely and without fear of threads being closed.
Well my personal view is,I dont think that thread was finished and should of been left to run its course.

The transactions that the complaints where about in that thread where mostly made outside of vB.org.

Even keeping that in mind, we let the thread open for all to have their say, left it open for the person who the complaints where against to answer. After that it was nothing more then individual people 'discussing' their transactions with the coder in public. This had nothing to do anymore with warning other members and did not serve a general cause anymore. Since the discussion about the individual transactions is something between the coder and their customer (and has nothing to do with vb.org) the thread was closed.

Please keep in mind that the thread was not deleted, and it is still there for anyone to read who wants to have information about the business practises of those mentioned in that thread.

So what is the lounge forum for then?

I'll give my 2 cents worth.

I was keeping tabs on the thread and to me the parties involved were making progress. There was no arguing or flaming of any kind and the members involved kept a level head.

Now, all you've done is fuelled the fire when there was no fire and now you've got to deal with this thread which is going to last another 20+ pages with needless comments and thus going nowhere and resolving nothing.

IMO, you made a bad judgment on this one. Think about it, The thread could have been set as an example of how to resolve this kind of problem, and to show that these kind of occurances can be resolved without a staff member coming in with sarcasm and stating that it was all a drama.

With regards to copyright, I'm sure you rely on members to submit sites that are breaking vbulletin copyright laws thus cracking down on those who break it. My point being, it's not that the person has to do this but they do it off their own back out of good nature and (because the thread in question) was civil as was the people involved I'm sure you could have done the same.

Sometimes a little common sense goes a long way, and a little descretion. :down:

Freedom of speech!

Freedom of speech doesn't apply here.

Anyway, site policies are only as good as they are enforced. I have no investment in the thread in question so I won't question why it was closed. I do think, however, that the reasons given in this thread (by the two Admins) are a bit inconsistent. It does send the message to the community that not everyone in management is on the same page.

Just an observation... :)

I guess not for this type of topic. But yet its strange other topics that go way off and do have fighting in the thread can still be left open and warnings given. You need to change some rules on that or basiclly stick to your guns. I dont feel that this topic in question was getting out of hand esp. since it was all in the lounge where its suppose to be aloud. Sometimes it seems they just get power happy and close a thread other times when the thread needs to be closed cause it is truely pointless a warning is given and the thread remains open. Perfect example is this thread right here https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=126976 where a warning was given today. Truely that thread has no point at all besides promoting a site. At least this thread made others aware of his actions and may have warned others too. But all in all things seem to have there own rules around this site and are made by the day (i.e) topxstats had a exploit thread was never closed yet ecdownloads had a exploit and the thread was closed???. Hope things change for the better cause it has been looking ruff for a few months on this site.

that's easy as cake gio is a 15 year old kid .You should not do anything that involves money with a person under the legal age.In here where i live a person under legal age cannot

• run a commercial website
• own a credit card
• do online transactions (eg sending or receiving money)
• (manny others)

don't get me wrong here.I have a deep respect for the coding talents of those young coders.When you need a custom hack and you are willing to pay it's creation you should be VERRY CAREFULL while choosing a coder


those stuff i posted above strongly depends on the contry where you live in (laws do differ from country to country)

To those people that payed him and did not get what they payed for you should all go together two persons are stronger then 1...

yep he is under age and even in the uk he would be breaking the law.How has he got a paypal account as they linked to a bank account? So maybe stating age somewhere should be a priorty even though they can lie - but if they do then the onus is on them.

Also i dont like the way the service requests has to be done in pm - its like taking it away from the board.All replies etc should be done in the service request thread - that way u know who hs replied and if u get pms and they not replied with offer then dont accept.Least this way u have a copy of the transaction.

Pms are ok for quick messeges but when money involved it different.
Someone on here offered to do one of my requests for $200 yet i got the same request filled and another hack done for $35 off another coder from this board.

I have no interests in that thread at all, but i have read this thread and Marco saying this "and has nothing to do with vb.org"
Has made me speak up, the description for that section states below....
Sit back in your lazy-boy recliner and chat away. This forum intends to host any kind of chat except vbulletin and hacking issues!

To me that states that you can basically discuss what you want as long as its nothing to do with vbulletin, or have i read it wrong?

It would be great to know what coders you can trust and shouldnt trust, I usually go on the coders title should i want anything doing, But a thread like that helps members big time. Although taking it as far it was taken was perhaps a bit much, but it did pay off as the coder came forward, but then the members get cut off in the prime, they posted here casue the coder would not respond, they get a response andthe thread gets closed, Tis like taking candy away from a child lol......

As I said before, we are working on this. However, we can not have biased towards the Client or towards the Coder on whichever way we implement it. A fair equillibrium must be used...

A fair equillibrium can only be reached if there is input from both sides.
Using the PM system to do deals surely is not a fair way - it should all be set in stone for both sides to view.

You lot are good at hacks so obviously you would`nt want just anyone viewing your services so why get a hack like this

usera wants a hack making

userb and userc reply to his service request but usera thinks userc price is better and links with him.

Once he linked the thread in question can only then be read by mods/admins
once usera and userc hav done their business both must click a link to close the thread and consider the deal done.

I think your spot on there Lats, the bit I highlighted in red above. I could not agree more with that statement.

If a user wants to request something, then they should create a thread in the service request forum. There should be some custom input fields placed to organize the information coming from the user. Then create a user friendly template that will display the information to the coders.

Only certain coders should be allowed to reply to these threads. You would have to create some conditions. Maybe something like postcount+installcount+coders title = The coder has proven that he/she is trusted enough to atleast bid on the job. When there is solid proof that someone was ripped off, then vb.org can disable there access to that area.

You can't just grant anyone to bid on these. Coders should have to show that they deserve this access. Might sound harsh at glance, but if a coder has to work alittle to get access, then they might take there job alittle more serious and clients will feel alittle more safer. Theres nothing worst then a programmer ripping off customers. That just makes it harder for real legit coders to work with clients. Most of the time it's the coders fault for these things. They say there going to do something, they get some money up front and then bail. vBulletin.org as an offical JelSoft site should show some concern in this area. That could be just a way for JelSoft to find more developers when they need them.

As a rather new member and vb 3.6 first time owner I chose this company because of your support and the members that help and hack. I for one would love to see how things of this nature trun out. I have paid for 3 mods from people i did not know but i did a search and looked at their past post. Had I known they had a bad rap I would have moved on, But when a thread is closed and I/we dont see the outcome then it leaves people in the dark. So at the end of the day what have you caused?? Did it really help to close the thread or like another has posted, just cause another thread to open with usless complaints, that will fall on deaf ears as it was set in stone by one and marble by another??
I love my vbull, and enjoy finding new mods and reading this stuff so I want you to know I do like your site, but would agree to keep it fair and work together.

As far as I can see, the details of a transaction have no place on a public forum, how much someone agrees to pay for a hack is not the business of anyone else, nor are payment details, email addresses or all the other private details that make up the discussions between a requestor and coder - PM's (or e-mail) are the correct way to do this.

The choice of whether or not the price should be shown should be made by the customer. A tickbox apon creating a thread. Then the coder will see if the bids are public or not and make the choice of bidding or not.

quite easy done, in fact no different from "if you want to display you age in posts" in vbulletin. So there is a work-around for that.

would`nt be public - as doign it my way once the person links with the coder by way of a tickbox etc the thread would then be hidden to everyone except mods/admins.

so who`s gonna read it then ?

you lucky, someone offered to do ready done script integration into vB for $1000-2000 without even knowing the amount of work involved.

:D

I know this isnt a freelance site however on most sites coders bid for work etc, I personally deal with quotes in private however I just wanted to point out that it is not the standard practise.

:D


are you nuts ?

he sure is, man you think $1000 is the norm or cheap for a vBulletin script, man your either on drugs or pissed.

and since when is it the norm to deal only via PM only. get out of here you don't have a clue what your waffling on about

It doesn't matter what offers are what. Everyones prices are diffrent depending on the job. I've done $5000 jobs and I've done $50 jobs. What matters is a system that is more user friendly to deal both the coder and the customer.

The process that we go through here just doesn't make much sense to me. If your going to host the ability to have members contact each other for paid jobs, then it would make more sense to develop a simple system to control how it should be done. vBulletin.org is in the position to help both the customer and the coders, but they fail to see a positive outcome on such a system.

I always wonder why it's done via PM. You always here something like "We don't want to have anything to do with the sales". Either way your still providing a way for customers to hire someone on your sever. Whether it be pushing it via PM or via a custom thread system.

Oi .. all that singing is making u fuzzy wuzzy :) Please, read what was typed ;) I was stating that on most freelance sites they bid in public

to add to the $1000-2000 quote was for scripts that had already been written and which I already own .. for their integration with vB .. so it is an even better quote

with that said, it would be great to have a system put into place that could benefit both coder and purchaser

I say lock the threads, that is what vbullein.org is getting known for........any content that doesn't agree with a person's moral's, are then locked and/or moved.......

I have to agree, in a "LOUNGE", the coversation should be able to go to just about anything without being closed.....but it isn't my site, so LOCK em down....

LOL @ hotwheels

Personally I don't agree with locking/closing/splitting threads at all. I feel that there are ways to bring a thread back on topic, without getting people all riled up because their post was deleted or the thread was split. And they DO get riled up, not just here, but other sites too.

:eek:

seriously, you can check my site...........People can say what they want, how ever they want too......I have rant rooms, b.s. rooms, etc.....I even have a talker bot that use's profanity.

I have found that more people like having a bit of freedom when it come's to talking/chatting on the internet. Life is way to serious to close thread's because it may be harmful content.....

Now, i am not saying that people should talk shit in a new thread here, when a mod doesn't work like it should, but in a lounge, they should be able to talk away about just about anything, within reason of race, color, religion, etc.....

But it has been really bad over here lately and i really like it here......thread's are closed by mod's or moved, because of a moderator's personal belief's or feeling's.....which to me, isn't right.....Some of the moderator's, need to get a little thicker skin and understand that people are ALL different and believe in different way's. Which also mean's, people tend to express themselve's differently......

As i stated earliery though, it isn't my site, so LOCKEM down.....I just feel lucky that we still have a few coder's left that are willing to share their work with us.....I know i have tried to work with these php code's and it's not easy, so i have a great appreciation on this site for that talent.

hotwheels

I like your attitude and agree with you. The problem I feel is this site unfortunately when it comes to things like this is split down the middle and always will be. Because on one side of the coin you have coders and the other side none coders. Which is a problem when it comes to agreeing on something. But I do agree with the part about some mods should leave there personal beliefs at home when moderating here, and try to have a much more open view about situations without letting there own self beliefs sway there comments. At the end of the day all we want is more protection for the person buying the hack (end user). And if that means the hack threads should be made public to make others more aware when things go wrong as a warning to others to see and read.

Thats the way it should be.

Whenever a member of staff get's it wrong they are right. I once read a topic "community helping the community" in the announcements when things started getting hectic in the feedback area what ever happened to that philosphy? when did that stop? was this a way of trying to control your members? Obviously people can't go to the staff, they just don't want to know so they try to handle it themselves which is exactly what they were doing.

Like I said before when the staff get it wrong they are right. In all honesty, you'll always shoot yourself in the foot and you can't say it wasn't deserved.

Anything for an easy life only this time a new thread which is catching the attention of everyone which wasn't needed which results in staff members hovering over the thread 24/7 (which is dan at the time of typing). :)

Just my 2 cents again. ;)

edit: Excuse my bad english, I'm english.

well said........I had a conversation here a few months ago with a person that wasn't happy with certain type's of conversation here and felt that it should be set up like vbulletin.com, to where you only talk about vbulletin.com and nothing else. The person also said, that since this site is based around vbulletin, hence you can't get code without having a vb license, this site should be run as a code site only.......
So i recon, that is where this management team is going to have to make the decision, is this a community, or is it a coding site only. If it is a community, then certain members of the management team need to grow some thicker skin and let people have a discussion, even if it seems to get heated. Or, get rid of the lounge area, and a few other section's, and inform the member's that this site is code related only, and that ALL discussion's should be about coding and nothing else.
Right now, it is kind of frustrating. Alot of the great coder's are gone, not saying that we still don't have great coder's, but alot of them that donated for free to this site, are gone and they are truly missed by me. To make things worse, i have no idea where they took their talents to.

I wish i knew what the answer was to make this site a better place to be, but i just don't. I have tryed to say openly what i have felt a few of the problem's are/were, but nothing has changed in the way thread's are handled. I personally have had thread's here closed to, or thread's that i was a part of, like this one will probably be......

I totally agree with you on this bashy, if you buy a lemon for a car. Just about anyone on this site would want their car fixed and if it wasn't fixed, they would go out of their way to share this information with family, friends and the internet......Nothing really piss's me off more as a person, then people having to buy something that turns out to be garbage and not being able to share the information, openly about the garbage that was purchased. Which is really to bad that they are getting rid of post's like that here, people should have the right to that information. Shoot, even vbulletin.com send's you here to look for outside hacks.......This site should take the good with the bad, when it come's to people's money and buying hacks here....
Right now, i have a mod installed called talkerbot,which i truly enjoy. The coder that has put the hack together has done a wonderful job. Only thing left to do with this mod is update the learn hack, here and people can teach their bot to talk how ever they would like too. The person that has redone the mod, has the learn code set up, but, it is only available to him (which is fine), but if you want your bot to learn, you have to go to his personal website to teach your bot and wait for the site owner to update his personal database, before you can give your bot new information, which is really a pain in the butt....but at this point, you are basically held hostage (i know that's a strong word because i use the hack for free), it would just be nice to be able to do this on your own database and not have to upload all of the other user's learned thoughts too....... and i truly suck at php coding, i have been trying to fix the above code to work, but i just can't do it and that is part of what i miss about how it used to be here........everyone was helping everyone and there wasn't all of this hate and discontent about talking about wanting code or purchasing code and having threads locked because it was thought to be to personal of an issue to talk about, just like in the example i just shared.
Anyways, have a great day all........

well said m8 if the thread had`nt been locked i would of got bored with it anyway but cause it was cut off in mid conversation i never found out what happened and im a nosey sort of guy :)