Time To Speak Up?
 

Never have i tried to cause commotion or unwanted problems. However, the second a couple of people (i included) voice our opinions regarding certain situations, we get a statement that translates to "Follow the first amendment and get banned".

Ask yourself this now, do you honestly think that the staff has more support than the coders and designers who make this forum? The people who come here come here for what we do, and yet when we ask for answers, we get put down? A staff title here means nothing more than a simple "I can delete and edit posts", and yes... you've made it very clear that you can. However, no coders and designers = no need for this site = no need for a staff. So why doesn't everyone try and remember exactly what this site is for and tuck your tail in between your legs.

I once said But let me change it and add that this procrastination is leading to aggravation and possibly the site lacking elevation, and possibly soon will be needing termination if the determination and anticipation isn't put into consideration. Did i make that clear?

Some coders and i were talking over on AIM about actually leaving vb.org along with the many who have. I actually am quite active here as you know and still have some love for it and the users here, so i'm trying to hold on to what's left. However, how about some inspiration?

Wayne, i'm sorry if i offended you in my post in the other thread. However, i just think that that pm to Corrie was a bit uncalled for.

Hopefully this thread doesn't get closed and deleted. Before jumping to conclusions and saying "This thread won't cause any good", why not try and give some good input?

Inspiration, encouragement and motivation are essentiel in keeping a community active.

Thank you for agreeing.

Though I'm friends with Corrie, I'm not going to be a fanboy for either group.

The last thread was somewha tense, and obviously people still have frustrations over the pace of things. Instead of closing the thread, sending threatening PMs, deleting posts, and talking of banning, I think it would have been much better to tell everyone, on both sides, to cool down and talk it over rationally.

Were there blatant personal attacks in the last thread? I don't think so; though plenty were hinted at. Lets have a nice civlized discussion without pulling out the ban hammer and without yelling insults at staff.

Yes, Wayne, no one wants to attack the staff here. We are simply looking for updates on progress. I am unsure why we are being alienated, but I can tell you that I have not broken any rules here what so ever. I can tell you wayne, that your language isn't appreciated in your private message to me. If I am banned, I will make sure that, the pm (which has been forwarded to many on this site by now) will get to the right people at Jelsoft. Now, can the hard working people here please be met with civil respect?

Yes, please.

These changes will take time. For one thing this is a high volume site, and creating complex hacks for it is more of a challenge than you might think. For another, adding more coders and staff will help, but as any project manager can tell you there is always a ramp up time after adding new staff to a project.

Give them a break, give them some time.

And to the staff: Closing and deleting threads can sometimes just fan the flames.

wow i guess it starts from the top down with respect and not giving it... i was reading the last thread and was getting ready to reply and poof closed... i guess thats the easiest way to shut people up and keep the higher ups thinking things are going well... seems like that has been going on alot lately... i dont cause no trouble here and aint trying too either but to threating peope with a ban when there stating there own opion i dont thing is a good thing.. i mean come on there were no attacks i seen at all... just questions being asked but im sure this thread will get closed and i think that gio~logist and Corriewf are both bring up valid points..

Agreed, hambil.

They haven't even finished setting up permissions yet or finished filling the teams. There has been nothing to really report. Why announce things before they are ready? A million posts requesting more information won't get it. Not even two weeks have gone by since the announcement of the new staff structure. Certainly that is not an unreasonable amount of time to start building teams. It requires reviewing potential members, talking with them and setting things up.

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The next part is GENERAL. It isn't directed to one person in particular, just to make that clear. Those causing the problems know who they are and they will know when they read it.

The ongoing behavior on this site suggest otherwise. It seems that all some people want to do is destroy this site and vBulletin and will do everything in your power to do so. You log into chatrooms and attack Jelsoft employees for fun. You do the same to the staff here for your own whims. From now on, it will result in bans. It is stated in the rules, whether you read them or not. The staff have been very lenient but now they are backed into a corner. All this does is contribute to a negative situation which people say they want to resolve. It isn't helping. All it does it make people defensive and quite literally develop a great dislike if not hatred for the people causing the problems. No one here wants to ban people. We truly don't. However if that is what it comes to then it must. People simply can't expect their hundredth warning and a slap on the wrist.

Quite frankly, everytime people cause this crap I have to think hard on whether it would be simply easier to delete the whole site and start from scratch or simply allow commercial addons without the need for this site. However people do rely on the site for their own forums and it is a great resource. People need to stop causing problems simply to do so. It doesn't help anyone in the long run.

Really, you want the staff to be more forthcoming instead of armed to the teeth and sitting in their foxhole, then you need to extend a branch and drop the stupid schoolyard antics and petty fights. It is as simple as that. Sarcastic quips hurt and they are attacks and they should not be tolerated. Don't you remember what your parents taught you? It is probably the most important thing they taught you in your life...

TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WISH TO BE TREATED.

Want to be treated badly then treat others badly. That is how it works. Want people to accept you and treat you with respect, then do so as well. The last few weeks on this site many have not had any respect but think they deserve it in return. It isn't going to happen. You will be treated like what you are, a spoiled customer who is more trouble than worth.

This isn't the way it has to be and you know it. You want change on the forums, the start it. Want to be treated differently, then start treating others differently. Bring what you want to the table and it will spread.

As said in the other thread, no one expects Rome to be built in a day, but im sure even Rome was more outspoken about updates then this.

Wayne your a hypocrite.

Why would you treat anyone with such disregard as in your pm to me? I am sure I will be banned for posting this, but it has been forwarded to sooo many people by now that it doesn't matter....Everyone who is important will know the truth.

I am treating you with the same respect that you give me and all the staff here. Sorry but if the shoe fits. That is all I really have to say about the matter. At this point, I honestly don't care whether you like me or not or want to associate with me. Want to bring things out in the open, then so be it.

If you were truly indignant about my private message, then you would have kept it private instead of showing it proudly just to prove how persecuted you are. And the only reason your post was quoted is because the link added it for some reason and I forgot to delete it. The Private Message is about more than that one post, but your general attitude in general.

And yes, the cursing was out of line. I apologize for that. It is just very frustrating that whenever I get a little time to be with my wife, something is happening on this site that pulls me away. Now I have a pissed wife and am awaiting a very unpleasant evening.

It's difficult to know how much to share. You run the danger of 'design by committee', and I can promise you most of the people making suggestions will not be good enough to be doing so, and will only confuse the process. Then they will be angry they aren't being listened to.

The best thing the staff can probably do on a site like this is get together a timeline for major addition, and leave out the details. We'll see the details when the design is done, or the hack/change is implemented.

That's the way it has to be. As a professional coder I've been here many times. You cannot let everyone be invovled in the design, despite the fact that everyone thinks they should be and everyone thinks *their* ideas are great regardless of how much experience they actually have at site design or coding or business.

While I haven't always agreed with you Wayne (I keep it to myself), I agree with you this time. I don't expect major changes or announcements until they are ready. I also think the people who are in control should have the latitude to operate the site in their timeframe and as they see fit. Good luck to everyone...hope we all get what we are looking for ;)

I have never used profanity in any message directed at any staff here Wayne. Matter of fact I have never messaged you at all. I speak with just about every staff member here on a personal basis so im unsure what you are referring to, but I know it isn't correct.

I didn't chose to make my TRUE feelings private, you did. I chose to make them unprivate. This is the internet and as any 12 year old has been warned by momma and daddy, whatever you put out there will be spread around with, or without your knowing.


Yes, but this website's success is based off it's userbase. It was the userbase's crys that prompted changes. So after 2 or 3 weeks it has been, an update would be expected. Last we heard was that they may or may not go with a paid script and may or may not utilize people here for coding projects revolving around the site.... After a while it is hard to tell rumor from fact.


Btw, all the staff jobs have been given out for now im sure.... It's ok to speak your mind.

I love: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/customava...tar57845_0.gif just like I love the org. I would die if you closed it.

I kind of felt the same. However, i'm sure he's just looking out for both sides, hopefully.

As far as the staff is concerned, how many positions are left? All cockiness surprised, i've had several people IM me and such asking me why i'm not on the staff or saying that they're surprised i'm not. Honestly, it's not a major deal, and probably won't benefit me much. However, i have pmed the admins letting them know that i am available if they need me.

What does it take to get approved by the way? To be honest, i think that the abilities of other members surpass the ones of some of those on the staff (no offense). I personally also think that Psionic should be in the coding team as well.

Either way doesn't bother me, but i'm just curious as to what made these people get chosen that didn't make others such as Psionic?

What I see here, as a totally non-involved member, is two posters going in for repetitive baiting.

What I want to know from you two is just how do you think your personal baiting is supposed to hurry things along or help in any way, as you obviously think so.

Are you referring to me? Because i personally have no problem with anyone here.

Round N round we go. Give them some time, 2 weeks isn't gonna change awhole lot. If you havn't noticed, every other day they are getting new members on staff, which means more features will come faster then before.

I was waiting for you. Send me a pm, i have a bone to pick with you young man!

I'm in trouble. :(

No they have not. Teams are still being put together. You're information is wrong. And speaking one's mind is totally acceptable if it is done is a calm and productive, and not destructive, way. ;)

I've been waiting for you too, as you're always in these discussions hehe. The elder has arrived!

The teams still being put together is interesting, any way to nominate someone even if you're only a member?

First off, there is the time factor, as mentioned by Wayne. Barely 2 weeks and already not only clamouring for the changes but insinuating for no apparent good reason that there won't be any at all?

Statements like these (not mentioning who made them), and my own very personal, uninvolved perceptions of them (right or wrong):
That's not quite true. I've followed as an onlooker, and I've voiced some opinions myself. Maybe as said it's the unhelpful way some things are being said, not the fact that they're being said at all.

Not terribly helpful at all in this situation.

Given the last threads I have seen, this statement does not seem true, nor does it seem warranted in any way

I heavily suggest some ... reflection before posting this kind of thing.

Baiting, unnecessary insinuation

I will agree with you in one aspect, that the original post was blown way out of proportion. I have never been one to spoof up my words to make them nice and pretty, I just ask directly. I know as many for a fact that there was a meeting a week ago. I have been paying attention to the main page, nothing in a while. While many may perceive my words as negative, they actually are not. I could not be anymore direct with my intentions.

sounds like i'm missing on all the fun since I've been gone :)

There are teams leaders. You can contact them privately. However like I said previously a lot goes into the consideration of the staff chosen. Just because someone is a good coder doesn't mean they are good fit for the current team. Their public posts will be a good indication and current team mates will be allowed to express their opinion. However, not getting a team position isn't a reflection of the person either.

There are ways to contribute and get noticed so when a position opens up, your name could be in the #1 slot. Post your addons, help people, contribute tutorials are some. Being a positive force in the community overall will help you become staff as people leave or the site and teams grow.

Elder? Apparently that doesn't have a whole lot of meaning these days. In my day we listened to and learned from our elders. ;)

Yes, the contributions is a given :p I was just interested in perhaps promoting someone.

If you wouldn't forget in mid sentence what you were saying, we might learn something.

I try listening to you, but you always seem to teach me the wrong things! Oh and since you're the coding team leader, i publically nominate psionic vision for coding staff :p

I was going to go with the "Haha's", but i made to many when laughing to actually type them. That was indeed priceless.

LOL I remember when I had my first beer, too. You'll be ok in the morning. ;)

Was you telling the kid about your old biker days again? Whatever he says gio... DO NOT RIDE A MOTORCYCLE WHILE DRINING VODKA!

I'll try, but i'm kid of gullible and vulnerable due to the age different :confused:

As far as the changes being made here, i've heard some talk about the staff. However, what about the other changes?

This link directory, will it be a classifieds section?

The hack database being one of the projects for the coders team, does this mean no progress was made previously?

Whew! gotta stick my head in a bucket of cold water!
Ahhh that's better.

Energizing!

Now for anyone all fired up and ready to go to work here's a real duzy for you:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=117272

Sort this one out and not only will you make me eternally grateful ...

I believe it will take vB to a whole level of communications and new markets of opportunity.

Cheers,
Mark

Trust me, that's the last thing you want right now :)

Good Post Wayne, Good Reminder as always!.. Start with the man/woman/coder/install button clicker in the mirror, eh?

Hostility, Fear, Agression and Intolerance build walls of Suspicion that further separates 'them' from 'us', blocking any useful interaction and leaves us fuming on either side of our wall. With no progress, no resolution, just a bunch of angry geeks leaping up the wall towards each other to hurl a few more nasties over the wall at the other side.. Then a quick stop for Doritos and Mountain Dew..{leaping and yelling uses a lot of energy, dude!}

Respect, Open Active Listening, Patience, Compassion and Tolerance build bridges of Understanding that bring us all together, and we're able to work around our questions and find a central point of understanding that can make everyone work together, solve the issues, and have a kickin' bridge party afterwards..

So, what's your gut feeling? - are you a wall builder or a bridge builder?

Are you really interested in building those bridges, by waiting, asking questions politely, and using positive methods ? Or are you so hot you cant not argue, pick apart statements, fight fight fight ?

EVERYONE has good points in the discussion - i dont dispute that. It's HOW the discussion is handled that is more important. It's how people choose to present themselves and their points.. What you write here speaks volumes of who you really are. Just give it some gentle thought, and decide what do you REALLY want to spend your energy on?

And as a final note, as a site owner myself (as we all are), it is interesting to me to see a 'disagreement' develop here, and watch how it's handled, and what the outcome is. Also a good learning tool for the future.. This happens at least once at everyone's site if you wait long enough :):cool:

Why? We are all adults here, you won't hurt my feelings..... Speak your mind.

Why not speak your mind without being confrontational? For starters, you'll get farther ahead if you'd use a bit of diplomacy. Know when to use an open hand as opposed to the closed fist.