I could not agree with you more my friend. The almost total arrogance of only one or two of these people really does cast an unneeded shadow here. I am like you, I work hard all week, and spend the vast majority of my spare time caring for my site/community FOR FUN! I enjoy experimenting with mods and themes but normally need some assistance. If I am going to get abused for asking for help then why bother?
I bother because I love vB.:ermm:

p.s. ... :tired:I too have been added to this persons 'ignore list' -- and am glad!:tired:

Psi is a good guy, just a little stressed out lately it would seem.

I disagree. To get to advanced or master, many people need to have installed your work. If the hacks were poor then people would soon realise and either not install, or uninstall, them.

Yes, because your post here:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=106604

Is really helping things. Pot, meet kettle. It took me about 2 minutes longer than it did for you to be rude to him to answer his question and move on.

I'm one of the lowlies that can stumble thru someone else's work and find where I screwed up the install but can't code my way to "hello world".
I appreciate the help I have received from the knowledgable coders here, always freely given, usually with an astonishing level of patience on their part. It has brought me to a level where I can at least look at code and grasp its function.
Its true there can be a certain level of ego and arrogance on the part of the coders, but in my experience, this is true of most anyone knowledgable in their field dealing with someone unknowledgable.
Noobs are to be expected at a tweak/hack/help site such as this, and tolerance and patience on the part of the helpers should be SOP.
The other side of the coin of course is that a certain amount of effort on the part of those seeking help should also be expected, along with the realization that those helping are volunteers, giving their time and knowledge freely.

It is the staff's responsibility to keep things in balance here. Coders need to be able to police their own release threads. The search here is monstrously bloated, and really needs an overhaul. The hack db I keep hearing about is a wonderful idea, will help organize things here immensely.
IMHO, stricter rules need to be in place and rigorously enforced regarding flaming, improper post placement, and laziness with regards to selfhelp.

I have learned so much here, usually by simply reading what has been previously posted. I'd hate to see such a valuable resource as this deteriorate into a leet newb bashing flame pit.

If someone is not using the search function and posting in the wrong forum there is nothing i can do for them. Everybody in here are nearly forum administrators and we all know that in our own boards we want users to post in related forums or use the search function. Why shall it be different in here ?

Anyway you can continue on your own problems and please don't expect me to join with you.

The main problem is mentioned couple of times in here. People donot act right in vBulletin.org because they think that they need to get help from any other person but first of all they need to help themself by using board features.

I learned a lot about php and coding here at vBulletin.org and if in anyway i can help anyone i always try to help them if it is within my knowledge. If someone is breaking the rules or if someone is not using the forum features i deny to help them because that kind of people has no respect to any other person.

well for example uShop. -Full of super globals which are a huge security issue amongst other *sloppy* coding- has alot of installs. Alot of *Popular* hacks are attrociously coded. So installs doesnt correlate to quality.

That's just your personal view, others may not agree with it.

I never said installs directly related to quality, but it's a factor - and you need a bit more than 1 hack to get Advanced/Master, even if it has 1000 installs.

It's my personal view obviously! I wouldn't post it if it wasn't. However, it is not *just* my personal view as other people have similar views. The titles are Misleading. Maybe they should be *Popular Coder* Rather than master coder which implies improved coding skills which is *usually* not the case.

Alot of un technical users assume that Master Coder's addons are better coded because of their alleged master coding status. I have seen many Master Coder's addons with sloppy code throughout.

And clearly, in my case, more than 30 installs to be a Coder. ;)

[high]* Guest210212002 kicks stuff, bites his thumb at Paul and his superior coding skills and actually useful mods[/high]

LOL - "Popular Coder". :banana: I'm not sure some of the staff (or members) would quite go with that as an alternative ;) :dead:

I think there should be a title " God Like " and when you click on that persons profile a mp3 plays the sexy voice from ut 2k4 " MMm GOD LIKE!".....

I'm surprised this thread is still going..lmao+

since it is, I'll put in my 2 cents,, unless I already did *thinks for a sec* well if so, I'll toss my 4 cents..lol

I've been here almost one year, and I'm not going to say I didn't know anything about coding when I got here, but I sure know a lot more now then when I started.
People have to realize that this site is rather large, and the search function is a great tool, I've ran into problems where I wasn't searching the correct terms for what I was looking for, but all in all I've had a pleasant time here and been pleased with what has been offered to me for FREE :)

just want to say thank you to all the coders and member that have helped me out, and to those that are complaining about this system. I think maybe you should take a week away from your boards, get some fresh air, and enjoy your life.\

Most comunities that are built with the help of others on this site are for fun, and a hobby. I think some of your are taking things to personally and trying to make things harder on yourself then they really need to be. :)

P.S. if your not happy with the search fuction on this site, just go to some larger sites 1,000,000 plus member and try searching for a spasific phrase or item there, after that you may apperciate what you can find here..

:)

I'm guessing it has to do with your join date, since I got my coder title with 1 hack and 5 or 10 installs. The advanced title must have some crazy requirements though, since Mr.ZeroPage (IBPro Arcade author) is still a coder with 600+ installs.

I really don't mind answering the same questions over and over again. I don't spend alot of time in the request forum, but I often will check it out to see if any users have posted any nice ideas worth putting my time into.

If the user is requesting a hack that has already been created, I will link them to it or let the user know the name of the coder who released it. I do this because I most of the time know which user released said hack. Most users will find either or, just as helpfull. I havn't really ran into a user who was mad because I didn't post an exact link/location to what they are looking for.

I personally am still learning PHP everyday. :) Don't let the titles fool anyone, they don't really mean much to me. The only advantage I see is that if you ask for help, you tend to get a quicker responds (Just my experiance). I have seen plenty of rude threads/post and just ignore them. I don't have much time argueing with people in threads.

I expect people to post the same question/request all the time. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it completely. If a member ask a question that I know, and I allready know someone has asked this before; I'll answer it anyways. Makes me feel better. Those threads are consider an easy post count while still countributing to the community. :p

I think everyone just needs to lighten up some. Where all here to do the same thing. Install Hacks / Code Hacks, and most importantly, learn! :)

I think the problem is because vb.com does not support more hacks, they need to back the coders more and support them more to make the overall product better.

I dont think they support hacks at all, because if you ever install one, they wont support you if you have installed any hacks on your site.

I'm sure vb.com could provide some staff to pursue some of the great hacks that were made for 3.0.x and redo them for 3.5.x That would make the community happy, as it has been several months and there are still some really important hacks being delayed.

this is a matter that has angered lots of members from this community.

I think the problem is because vb.com does not support more hacks, they need to back the coders more and support them more to make the overall product better.

I dont think they support hacks at all, because if you ever install one, they wont support you if you have installed any hacks on your site.

I'm sure vb.com could provide some staff to pursue some of the great hacks that were made for 3.0.x and redo them for 3.5.x That would make the community happy, as it has been several months and there are still some really important hacks being delayed.

this is a matter that has angered lots of members from this community.

I've actually been a member here since August of 2004, I just got a new license, and stopped being the admin of my old-license's site, and wanted to associate any hacks/etc that I release with a more suitable name. :)

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=105453

That's me. ;)

So Ed from Orlando is Chris from Boston ????

is it just me, or did hornstar1337 say the same thing twice ?...hehe

Well, Ed from Orlando ran Club3G with me, and is now the guy in charge of that license, thus the Club3G account on here is associated with him, not me. When I ran Club3G, I used it, but now that I don't, here I am!

[high]* Guest210212002 is confusing himself[/high]

It's just you.

It's just you.

I was probably just trying to make the point stick more ^^

This is perhaps very wrong. I am a admin on my place. And i started scratsh, and i couldent nothing. Everyone have to start somewhere. vBulletin has members from all over the world. And some of us speaks very bad english. (writes). Pls bee more pation, dont forget that you gues also have been a newbee. ;)
But i agree that if the aurtor writes, no support. Then it is, no support.
I have asked about the most stupid question during the time i have been a meber here. But luckely, i have got very good help.

Ok, I know I'm bumping again, but I need to add another $0.02 to this thread (it's starting to get expensive now!!!!)

Now considering this user has his/her homepage set to www.vietvbb.com you'd be expecting them to have an understanding of vB seeing as their site appears to be distributing mods translated into what appears to be Vietanmese (sp?) and is quite heavily modded.

Now look at this thread.........https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthrea...773#post897773

It just baffles belief.

Not only is it a new thread for a hack related question, but the answer to the question is not lost in the middle of the thread, but is on the first page!

* peterska2 starts adding instructions to my new releases saying that difficulties may arise if you cannot read, follow instructions, or work vB


And BTW, I knew offically jack all when I started using vB. I still ask stupid questions every now and then, but I ensure I ask them in the right places and search first. I'm still learning, and still make errors. But then again, as things progress there is new stuff to learn, so I don't think anyone can honestly say that they truely know every single thing about vB, php, mySQL, and HTML

anyone know where I can get a dry martini and a donkey named Sally, please?

great I know exactly where that is .. Chruchtown, Mallow in Cork Eire and strangely enogh about 1mile away from where my folks stay :lick:

small world

and it just goes to show how helpful the forums are

i want to say thanks for posting this thread.

i gained a lot of advice and information that i will use to improve my searching tecniques and my vb ettiquette. i have been trying to help others but sometimes i get lost in the forums and get confused on which edits for which hacks/mods. but i do try to help.

i dont know how many times i have read and read a 68-100 page thread trying to find my answer only to realize i either forgot what i was looking for or so many people posted that i still didn't understand what had been posted. i do not claim to be great at understanding the language. i know html roughly...but i follow directions well if posted appropriately. i also learn by trial and error. if something says this is the main forum...i know that either my code paste will go there or somewhere else. i know what to look for in templates when they state paste anywhere. if i don't get it the first time i will try a different spot. but eventually i will get it where i want it or know where i don't want it.


i do believe that most of the coders here are very fair ( at least from the forums i have seen and the hacks i have installed). heck andrewd just came to my forum and fixed a problem for me on his own time. i mean heck that is above and beyond what i expected. i thought for sure i would get the response i did something wrong or put this here and do this and upload that. which i would have been extremely happy with in itself.

i will say that i am not really happy with the fact that someone releases a hack/mod on here in a free forum...then leaves something out and redirects you to their personal forum and wants to charge you in order to finish the install. that i don't see as being fair or right. maybe it is but obviously i haven't or won't install that mod. i just think that is a tease.

but in all honesty... this thread has brought a lot of insight of these forums to me. it has reclarified somethings that i can do personally to help others who may not understand as much or little as i do. i am not always right and i always say oops my bad here is what you were looking for or here is the right thing you need to do. i take responsibility for what i post.

in essence thanks for bringing this to light. i myself will try to help and point things out to others if i can.

i just want to say that i have googled searches and lwt me tell you from my experience...vb.org has the best support even if it is rude at times...eventually you have someone that will be helpful to your post even if it is 3 pages later. i might suggest that people use the thread tools and subscribe to the thread they posted in. i have 17 subscriptions and every time a post goes up i am notified. if i posted a question then i go back and read the recent posts in hopes that someone has given me advice. just a suggestion.

agreed ... we just hope it continues

Wow, after reading this thread, I'm not sure what to think.

I'm a programmer, but not a php programmer. I can usually figure out the basics of what a php program is doing, and can sometimes modify it a little, but not much beyond that.

I've been a mod at vb boards for a few years, but that still leaves me clueless on actually being the owner/admin of a board.

I bought vb because I'd heard how great it was. Only after the purchase, did I realize that it was VERY complex, and difficult to deal with. Trying to figure out even where a template was located was a huge learning curve (and I'm still in the learning curve).

The title of vbulletin.org says "The Ultimate VBulletin Resource". It doesn't say, "only for hack support".

I was under the impression that this was a place to come to get help with vbulletin of any kind. Apparently, I was mistaken. From the responses here, I should only be here if I want help with a hack, and I should go back to the official site for everything else. If true, perhaps that should be made much more clear.

I'm on forums all the time, and generally, they are there for "free support", with possibly a paid section when needed. The basic premise of most support-type forums is for users to help each other. And yes, that includes many newbies who are either clueless about forum etiquette in general, or clueless about almost anything.

Being a mod for many years, I know it's annoying when people don't ask questions intelligently, or don't search first, etc. But that's just the way it is. It's a fact of forum life.

I've searched many times here, and rarely find the answer I'm looking for. Or if I do, it usually took me an hour or so to do so. In the meantime, I may be panicking because something is broken.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, after reading this thread, I'm not sure how I feel. Part of me feels put off, as though I shouldn't expect much help here. Part of me feels sympathetic to those who offer their help to newbies time and again. Part of me feels put down because I "dared" to become a vbulletin admin without having prior experience.

Don't know what else to say. I'll certainly be very cautious before asking for help here in the future.

don't be cautious lol ask for help when needed and where needed. what's the worst that can happen? you get ignored or you get told off right? no big deal to me! i just shrug it off and continue searching and hoping someone can help me eventually. vb.com has great support also for hack problems if you state it the right way. give them your error instead of telling them what you did and let them sort it out or tell you what the error is. then when you come here and post you know what you are looking for! at least that is what i have done in the past...then again its only dealt with sql errors that i have so maybe i am wrong in saying that.

I run a very large forum, and it would be silly of me to blame 'problems' on users who are new to the forum. On large boards, it's often hard to see where certain posts should go.

That's where SITE STAFF come into play. A large board should have mods who regularly and POLITELY police their forums. Ie: Moving threads to more appropriate forums, posting links to threads that will answer a question that has already been asked.

Animosity towards newbies is not only silly, it's a good way to kill a forum. Plus is demonstrates a lack of professionalism, imo.

Volunteer to be a moderator
Create a post with 'quick links' to frequently asked questions, and ask the current mods to make it a sticky
Stop visiting this site
Create your own community and see if you can do it 'better'

Not as annoying, as whining posts like ^that^.

While I agree that there are problems here...they aren't the ones you've voiced.

As with any site, as it grows, the site owners need to re-evaluate how the site is navigated, and how to serve it's members - which NOW fall into two subsets: Old Timers and Newbies.

One way around this is 'FAQ Quick link' threads which are stickies at the top of each forum. This solved a LOT of our problems at my board.

When a newbie comes in, and asks a question that has been asked a billion times, a mod can just say: check here (with a link to the quick links)

Another solution is to re-evaluate the board structure

Lastly...a good set of mods who are patient, vigilant, polite, and don't get their panties in a wad over people not using search.

Me? I can deal with all of the 'problems' if I could just get 3 or 4 master coders to call on when I need mods created and installed. Seriously: If you're good, reliable, PM me. I pay fair rates via paypal, and always have a ton of stuff to be done.

And less than a mile from where I was born and dragged up.. :D

Liscarrol ???

:D

######################

some good points pcoskat

often people forget how easy it is to simply be courteous

New users however could also take a few tips and search first and if they not successful mention in their post that they have tried and would now like assistance. In the same way people being helped could also be a little more thankful so that it encourages a better community spirit of 'help'

C

i agree myself...whats that the golden rule lmfao.......but very true. treat others the way you want to be treated cuz one day you might find yourself in need of their assistance.

I don't think that's needed, especially since it's just to soothe the 'old timer' souls...

Most newbies aren't posting a question that's been asked before out of spite.

That's why it's silly for members to repond with venom or post 'shouts' in their sigs.

If it's THAT much of a problem, start a Newbie Forum (that's what I did at my site.)

In it, we have TONS of stickies with info on how to navigate the site, links to FAQ's, and site manners.

It STILL doesn't stop the newbie FAQ's, but now the mods and other members can just respond with 'see this post'.

^This^ post is a perfect example of 'unfriendly' - not to mention, it also demonstrates a gross understanding of why/how some people acquire vB licenses...AND what it takes to be a so-called 'success'.

A good CEO(admin) doesn't handle everything in their company, nor do they need to know how to do it. Among other things, they need to know where the smart, proficient, and courteous experts are.

I run a farily large forum, and I don't know how to upload files - nor do I plan on learning. My focus is on the content and overall experience for the end user.

While some people who have responded to this thread call themselves master coders, their level of business savvy and maturity is lacking.

Come to think of it, what would be GREAT is if someone would launch a site for vB professionals...

It would have:

- A directory of professional mod coders for hire*
- A directory of professional skin coders for hire*
- A directory of professional admin help (for things like back ups, and optimization)*
- A directory of professional skin designers*
- A well-orgzanized directory of mods/add-ons

I'd start it myself, but I don't know enough professionals in these areas. That said, I'd be a frequent customer...I ALWAYS need service providers.

*No, I don't want to use 'rent a coder' for these services. I'm speaking of a service that only caters to vBulletin users & service providers.

It didn't sound arrogant. Just misguided about the user base of the vBulletin application.

Stick to coding. :)

ETA
(Oh, geez...now I'm starting to get cranky, too :( )

Another $0.02 from me here (I told you this thread was getting expensive)

I've not been around for a bit, and on easing myself back in again I have noticed that a few of the regulars have disappeared. Is this co-incidence?

BTW, it is nice to see 3.5.4 here now, but I was quite happy with 3.0.7 too, so that really wasn't worth all the complaining because the upgrade didn't happen overnight.

IMO, there are problems here simply because there are people who have been using vB that long that they have completely forgotton what it is like to be a newbie.

It is great that there are people who can rattle off code mods and plugins really fast because they are that comfortable with the code and have used it that long that they know every single function practically off by heart.

It's great that designers are finally recognised, but, speaking soley for myself, writing any code based stuff at all can take hours - if not weeks. Why? Because designing generally doesn't involve touching the php code. Saying that though, I can help where it's something within my knowledge.

With any site that has been around a while, there are always the ones who know the ins and outs of everything to do with it (including modifying it here), but there has to be the new users. This is where a lot of understanding and patience has to come in from the 'old-timers'. Getting frustrated because someone isn't sure what someting means doesn't help, it just causes bad feelings.

It's the bad feelings that are getting to me. Over the last couple of months I have actually considered on numerous occassions removing all my mods from here. I've not been in a position to support them, and have had loads of PM's and emails asking for help with them. Despite putting a notice in my sig and unchecking the supported boxes everywhere, the questions are still coming in. I write my mods then quite often get someone else to have a go at installing them on my test board. I get someone who knows nothing at all about vB to install them simply by following the instructions I give in the install file. I'll help with things like finding the style manager and how to get into the template to edit it, but apart from that I leave them to it. If they can install it, then it's suitable for release.

Generally speaking, I have lots of patience and will help anyone I can. If it's a php question that's been unanswered a while, I'll have a go. I always say that I'm not strong in php and that my solution may not work, but I try. Often someone else then comes along and i my solution is incorrect they will post a correct one. I don't get offended by this, I try and learn something new from it.

One thing that I notice more and more, is that if I ask a question I get answered with things like 'you should know that' and 'search for it'. Now being as I am always answering other peoples questions using search and 9/10 times know the exact terms to search by, I can find this quite insulting. I never profess to being a php coder, so when my questions are php related, I should be able to get an answer and not a page of insults.

I've got to the point where it is quicker and easier to get one of my site staff who is linked with my licence to ask the question for me even though they don't have a clue what they are actually asking. It really is a bad state of affairs when it gets to that stage.

I'm in the limbo period at the moment where support for any of my stuff is practically non existant as I will be moving the support elsewhere simply because I don't apprecaite being told that my work isn't good enough. If it wasn't liked, no-one would have installed it so I wouldn't have wrote anything else. I'm all for feedback, and appreciate constructive criticism, but ripping into someone and giveing a load of abuse is completely unprofessional.

Thats my $0.02 (even if it has taken an hour to do it coz the phone keeps ringing) and hopefully my last words on the subject.

At the end of the day, we are nearly all admins, and we all started out not knowing anything at all. Some people don't even know HTML when they
first start out. I was one of these people. This isn't anyones fault, it's just that people know different things and learn others as they go along.

I have to disagree .. there may be a clique that forms where 'old timer' souls might occur .. however often you get the impression that some 'newbies' want everything on a plate ... it is almost expected

No one is being paid to assist people and therefore it wouldn't hurt for newbies to exercise a little self help.

Courteous behaviour from both sides goes a long way

and yes .. some people in this thread have certainly shown a great deal of how it shouldn't be done.

I still think vB.org is a helpful site, it can be quite daunting however it is also an asset to any prospective forum admin

#1 tip ... before you start use the search

I run and maintain a few forums and my experience comes from assisting others to run their own forums and often when they start off they want it to be all given on a plate. We set-up practise forums and throw them in on the deep end .. when they ask a question we say go to vB.org or vB.com and use search for your answer ... or simply provide a link to the vB.org or vB.com thread which I would get by using SEARCH

almost everything has been hashed up at least once on these forums .. if you cant find it in search then ask .. becoming self reliant is a bliss

Thanks

C
ps.. by the way I am still a long long way from being self reliant .. so I still need to use the search ;)

I guess you're right if you feel that every time someone neglects to put the obligatory 'yes I've used the search', that they are not being courteous. *shrugs*

I agree that some people want things handed to them, but I still feel that most newbies aren't trying to be discourteous (as you suggest.) I would also go a step further and say that it's this jaded view of newbies which is adding to the 'bad air' around here.

What would be more helpful for everyone is if people could stop whining about the 'problem of the newbies' and the 'know nothings', and offer some REALISTIC and CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions as to how the admins of this site could rectify the problems.

Asking newbies to put 'yes i used the search' is an 'idealistic' suggestion that doesn't constructively address the problems/issues facing this or any other large site.

I know exactly where the search function is, and how to use it...sometimes I can't FIND what I'm looking for, and I get tired reading 'search result' posts from other people asking the same question with responses that say: use the search function.

semantics pcoskat

and I think that you are now showing the arrogance others have displayed in this thread.

I shant further indulge your ego in the matter

Thank you

C

*shrugs* whatever.

You are correct.

Despite the youth, immaturity, and anger management issues of a handful of 'regulars', there is still good information to be had here, and vB.org is still a helpful and unique resource.

...still would be great if there were a professional directory, however, for those who just want to pay for help. (Not all of us are newbies who want everything handed to us on a plate. Some admins actually have a budget, and are looking to hire.)

There was a discussion about this in January, but the outcome still hasn't been announced.