I still dont understand why they should pay. Surely it is for the benefit of the users that

a) Costs are kept down for these commercial hacks by limiting there outgoing costs
b) The user can quickly and easily find a hack he maybe interested in.

Vbulletin addons was never going to continue as it did, it was like Geek said a Part time job which although gives a good feeling doesnt pay the bills. In most these hacks are not expensive, to pay for a whole article system i think Geeks prices are fair. To pay for a whole RPG system i think Zero's price is fair. These guys are continueing to help the community yet for the support needed and updates for the product it is simply too difficult not to ask for a small fee. In response to the "free advertising" thats not the way i see it. Vbulletin.org is meant to be the number one source for vbulletin resources, like it or not payed hacks make a huge part of these resources now and therefore its time to adapt and move with the times

huh. I actually remember seeing that now!

If the users here only represent 5-10% of Jelsofts customers then surely its still enough to validate all the points I made earlier. Even though 90-95% don't even require vb.org 100,000 people have registered ;)

That would be me - and I stand by it - as I think its a case of poor wording. IMO There is a big difference between saying you will provide support when time allows, and may not be able to - and saying that you will deny support. That implies you are deliberately refusing to support something, a whole different meaning.

Lets put it this way. I am not a coder but i spend like 1-2 hour on vb.org to check about whats going on or just surfing. but even in this way i cannot name all the paid modifications. There must be a place which i can check every paid modification that can add a new advantage to my board.

I also respect people who are releasing paid hacks because i know they are putting a lot of working hours for that modifications and if it is a paid hack you get really good support. But if you can see that vb.org is getting worse and worse everyday. A lot of good modification authors are not even visiting vb.org anymore i am sure there may be a reason for it.

There is just one thing i cannot understand. vb.org claims that paid modifications cannot advertise in here but vbseo is advertising at vb.org nearly for 3-4 months. Within this time they claimed that they will make a lite version. As far as i see they only advertised in here. ( Just checked that thread is deleted or i couldn't find it ) What did caused to vb.org ? Nothing. So why are we still keeping paid modifications out of here. I was +++++ing in vbseo's thread because that is the only paid modification that had been advertised in vb.org

In my idea the best way vb.org can follow is create a link directory for paid modifications. Also the lisence owners need to see a directory like this. Otherwise you may never heard of a modification you need.

I dont think that this will stop free of charge modifications at all and plus i believe it will bring back a lot of good coders back to vb.org

vBseo was allowed at first because the author was seeking beta testers. We didn't see a problem with him seeking testers via the forum. Once the modification was up for sale he said there would be a lite version, the thread was left for discussion while he prepaired the modification for release.

Needless to say it took him longer then expected. The thread has been deleted now, but he will be allowed to post his lite version when/if it's finished.

I think a lot of problems with angry .orgers could be solved if we came up with some rules of etiquette that are community enforced (politely) more so than mod enforced. (I have no stand on the advertisement of paid hacks here. I think it's Jelsoft's site and they can do what they want with it.) I am more concerned about the burn-out and disgruntlement that this site can cause.

The coders are a minority here. I did the math once, and fewer than 4 percent of this site's users have ever released any sort of mod. Another slightly larger minority helps out in the threads and answers questions on mods they did not write.

A large majority of the users are silent. They don't click install, they don't post for help, they don't post period. They are starting to be one of my favorite groups ;)

Another minority of users is very vocal, unfortunately. And it is them that are causing the problems. They don't read before they try to install. When they run into problems, they scream that the code doesn't work. They never admit to the fact that they messed things up. They install more than one mod at a time - badly - and end up with errors that they don't know the cause of. They post new threads for their questions instead of posting in the mod thread. They don't read the support thread to see if their question has been answered before posting.

It is these users who make it no fun at times to release code. I am not in the software support business. I wouldn't be if you paid me. That's why I don't write commercial mods. I do some custom work on the side, and those users get my best efforts until things are to their liking. But, code released here is me sharing an inspiration or idea with fellow coders. It is not a shrink-wrapped release.

So, if we can get the vocal minority to behave, I think you all will see the release of more mods. You will see developers like me not get so irked that we don't share our improvements and code changes.

It is a pain in the patoot to package up code for release - even with the product system. I am willing to do it because discussing code gives me pleasure. I am not willing to do it to satisfy a mob's demand for it. This is why my updates and feature additions are so slow. That vocal minority sucks all the fun out of releasing anything for the community.

Hence, the need for some rules of etiquette AND the need for the community to help support those rules.

I would never presume to make those rules. I think they should, of course, include the site's official rules. But, they should also be more. When somebody sneezes, we bless them because it's polite. Not because it's a rule. I think we need some of those polite codes of behavior here.

We need a way to civilize that very vocal minority and let them know that if they want to participate here, they are going to have to act like adults and not 12 year olds who forgot their morning Ritalin.

Otherwise, more and more developers are going to burn out and more and more mods won't be ported to newer versions of vbulletin. Or, the mods will start to cost you money. I strongly suspect that y'all lost the cash and shop mod because of burnout. I know for a fact that I haven't been motivated a drop to do any major modification updates and releases.

I'm finding that whether you charge for your services is a moot point...the warez'ers will dump it out there for free in the end regardless...so it's all free :ermm:

You people sure talk about some useless stuff.

- Make it or don't.
- Sell it or don't.
- Give it free or don't.
- Help or don't.

Just shut up and do it. Call me strange, but I don't see a problem.

My ole man always said: "Son, either sh*t or get off the pot"

IE: Get'er done and stop the crying.

:banana:

Preach it, Amy! :D

brings me too an issue of some network authorization connection with jelsoft for third parties.

If paid modifications cannot advertise here then why did you let him to do. As everybody else he supposed to find the testers from somewhere else because vb.org doesn't support paid hacks. If you still have the thread i mean if it is soft deleted please check it out. It was not even for testers in my point of view he just wanted to advertise his product and he did by first looking for beta testers then releasing story of lite version and it took nearly 4 months for all this. Everybody else found their testers so why they didn't. Anyway that is another subject.

I still believe Jellsoft must prepare a database for paid hacks. That will increase their sale also and it is a customer need.

For the orgers the problem start because noone reads the instructions . After the installation when they face with a problem they start +++++ing to the mod writer which they have no write to do. If someone is complaing or +++++ing to the mod writer they must receive serious warnings and maybe nopost for couple of days. Otherwise i beleive in coming future there will be only a few mod writer left at vb.org.

The first post of the thread had been edited, did you see it when it was first posted? :) When the thread began he was asking for beta testers from the community, we allowed it.

I agree it took us to long to take action after the thread outlived it usefulness, but it has been taken care of now for the reasons stated in my last post.

i think a bug tracker would be a great way to bog down on ass comments in release threads and keep hacks more organized and stop bugs from being reported over and over again. this is just my 2 cents but we are getting off topic.

We even took more action then Brad is showing here, and i can know, cause i handled the vBSeo case when it was first posted.

Within a day (probably even hours) after the first post about VBSeo was made, the author already received a PM asking if he was planning to release a version here at vb.org. In the months that followed the same question have been asked him a few times, and each time he could convince us that a (free) Lite version will be released here. That is the only reason the post about VBSeo lasted longer then a day.

AFAIK it is still in his intention to release that free version, although we still have to iron out some problems with our rules (part of the code is encrypted).

Bottom line, it is not handled any different then other threads posted about (semi) commercial hacks.

That 90% is exactly who my targetted customer base would be and is why, at least personally, I would have no problem paying a small fee to be able to advertise to them directly.

Unfortunately when it comes to products like styles they are easily ripped from the demo forums themselves. A 3rd party authorization system would work for some of commercial scripts but not styles.

very true but i think jelsoft should give a helping hand out to professional developers who want protection of their software as does jelsoft.

2 things I have noticed in the past two months of a new subscriber to vbulletin is that 1) some users get upset, 2) some coders get upset. Just because a person is a coder doesn't mean they are better than anyone else. They are human too, and at the same time, some get upset at the users. Is this their fault? Yes and No. Is it the consumers fault? Yes and No. Allow me to explain.

I've used/coded PHP for about three years, but by the same token for every year I've used PHP, I've had 4 years of experience fixing computers for customers. One thing I have noticed is that just because you own a computer doesn't make you an expert on it. When you explain to the customer what is wrong with their system you have to explain to them on a level that they can understand - otherwise, they won't. Just because you've bought a license to vbulletin doesn't mean it makes you an expert on it, especially overnight. What I have seen in here is that while most instructions are crystal clear, some are downright greek to me. Until after 3-4 hours of "guessing" and playing around with it do I figure out what they are saying.

What does this mean? Possibly that coders need to create a "level" for their consumers. For easy hacks "easy." For medium hacks, "medium." - I hope you can see where this is going. The way the hacks are currently, no one knows the level of frustration they will see until after they download and install it, unless there is some disclaimer on there that says "if you don't know php, don't bother." I can write php all day long, but does that make me an expert on vbulletin, NO, especially since I just bought the software 2 months ago. If some coders (keyword being some since most coders are good about explanations) would treat customers like they really don't know how to install it, instead of trying to teach a class of 3rd-graders algebra, then this would help a lot of unhappy consumers. In fact, a lot of frustration would dissolve if they knew how to install the hacks they desire.

As for clicking install? Unless I am 100% certain a hack will work, I do NOT click install until I KNOW it has successfully installed and it serves my purpose. I started, originally clicking install, just to click uninstall later because eithe 1) it did NOT work, or 2) it was waste of time and energy because it didn't do as I had imagined it would. I am human, and I have needs, wants, desires, just like anyone else when it comes to how I want my forum to run and what is on the forum.

As for the original intent of this thread (getting back on topic), there will be coders out there who want to be compensated for their time and efforts, which is somewhat understandable (if you code, then you know what I mean). However, a lot of consumers don't understand that. I know a handful of coders are in it for the money, as I'm not stupid and I do read a LOT of threads. I like vbulltin.org, mainly because I have found it to be a good community with people helping people without a fee associated with it. I would have started using vbulletin in Aug/Sept 2004, if I could have afforded it - it took a year of scraping the money together, with a couple of donations in order for me to even have enough money to be close enough to purchase the initial license. My site is only alive because of donations and from money I get from work. While it wouldn't bother me too much if there were coders in here that had hacks for sale - as long as there was a fine line distinguishing between which is free and which is for-a-fee, I am on here as much as I am because it IS free. I don't want to see - hey, that looks good, just to find it has a $99.95 price tag associated with it. I am by no means rich (filed for bankruptcy 3 years ago) and am struggling on a day to day basis to afford food for my family of 4 and clothes on their back (hopefully soon that will change). Things were better at one time, but being $1400 behind on bills at the moment doesn't give me the green light to buy anything I don't need (keyword-need). Is there any reason why another forum (site) could be used - such as http://www.vbulletin.net sharing the same database as .org with the intent pupose of hacks for sale? or something to the like? Just like a McDLT (if they still make those anymore lol - keep the cool side cool and the hot side hot) - keep the free hacks one place and the pay-for hacks another.

I've seen a lot of this happening, and a lot of coders griping at consumers for their problems - and believe it or not, some consumers will never understand how to do things - but a lot of this stems from the misunderstanding that the coder believes the consumer knows what they know and treats them accordingly. (Not referring to you Amy, you do a good job). On the flip side, I can read some things all day long, and reread and reread and not make a difference because I won't understand unless I do the work and then run into the problem - which some coders assumed that I didn't follow their instructions - which was NOT the case. I've run into problems that no one had the answer to, nor would anyone help me with the problem - so I uninstall the hack - big deal - I got over it. However, I don't like it when a coder assumes I am doing something wrong (I usually admit to my mistakes) and won't help because of that higher-than-thou assumption over me - then make me feel like I'm 2 inches tall because my results differ.

Note to coders: Not all code plays together nicely. I have found two hacks that when one is used, the other will not work possibly because both are going for the same hook. When I uninstalled the former, the latter worked. Will the coder know about this? Not unless someone says something about it in regards to the issue. Not everyone's installation is going to work as advertised. Just because it works on your test machine doesn't mean the consumer will have the same result. Yes sometimes consumers mess up on a hack, but other times hacks don't play well. Does that mean that the consumer did something wrong? Not necessarily. Should the consumer be treated like 2 inches tall because of it? No. This attitude can reflect on consumers just as well as a consumer's complaint can affect the attitude of the coder - it works both ways. Treat each other with respect, especially when there's a problem and most people will be happy.

Probably the only thing I will speak against is this. Some of us are not "normal." I am a 30 year old with Asperger's Syndrome with ADHD. For those who don't know what that it is, here is a link to it. I don't speak for all those referred to in this quote, however, I do have problems. I hope my conduct in here isn't as bad as that though. lol

Unfortunately, this is the real world. Sounds harsh but that is the way it is. If Jelsoft allows you to advertise and build your own business/hobby/whatever at our expense, we would eventually have to raise prices on our products and services to compensate as well.

You have other expenses you have to compensate for such as credit card processing, paypal fees, bank transfer fees, running your own website. All of these are included in your pricing. The cost of advertising would be another such cost. You could choose to absorb it and hope for additional sales to offset the cost or increase your prices. Many different ways to handle it.

I am surprise people haven't looked at another method here....

Free Addons and Extensions but the customer pays for support. Support is by far the most lucrative aspect of computer programming in the world. IBM's support division outsells their hardware and software divisions by 10 to 1. It derives 85% of the companies yearly profits. Big money to be made in support. Many open source companies such as MySQL AB derive 100% of their income from support contracts and licenses.

Then why have demo forums? Never understood why you would just throw all your commercial graphics and code out there to the wind. Why not do something like Template Monster does and show screenshots with watermarking and not the actual code. People will get the idea. Of course demo styles are easy but they lead to lost sales.

I've thought going that route previously but when I bounced the idea off a few people most of them responded with that they'd like to see how the style actually looks up & running before purchasing. I'm thinking of taking a slightly different route now. :ermm:

well the screenshot would be of it up and running so there should be no second guessing of its functioning capabilities.

this is a very interesting idea, would you have any suggestions on how going about this? also any comment on an universal authorization system for 3rd party developers?

I've been using vB 3.0.3 for ages now, happily using the free hacks on these forums and, if I felt them worthwhile, buying a couple of commercial hacks (vB Mail and vBaGallery as examples). I'm well known, by some hack authors, for giving feedback and suggestions on there hacks (The links/downloads hack in particular). Although I knew 3.5 went gold I decided not to renew my licence due to the lack of updated hacks for the product.

I wasn't aware of the "discussions" around the commercialism of hacks until reading this thread, although I have been aware that more and more coders were asking for donations.

In my opinion one of the great things about vB is the strength of the "free" mods on vb.org and I think we would lose something very special if we were to go down the route of advertising commercial hacks here.

If you think about anyone deciding on which forum software to use on their website, not only do they think of the cost of the forums themselves, but the cost of addons after the fact.

After seeing that a couple of the hacks I use have now been released for 3.5 I've just paid my ?15 to get my vB licence renewed for this year and since then I was wondering where the "big" hacks had gone from vb.org and now I know. They have gone commercial. If I'd known this before renewing I wouldn't of bothered and stayed with 3.0.3.

I think this is a slippery slope. The more commercial hacks on these forums the less free hacks there will be, as more and more coders think they can make money out of people. Some of these hacks cost more than the vB product itself! how can that be right?

Should I start charging the authors of commercial hacks for the suggestions I gave them before the product became commercial? How about the time I've put into beta testing their hacks? I'm sure I can come up with an hourly rate if asked ;)

Anyway, I just thought peeps would like to read how some of us non-coders feel.

Asking for a donation is not going commercial. I have put an address to donate to in most of my hacks. I always tried to help everyone, if they have donated or not. A donation 'request' is nice, but almost nobody (2 or 3 exceptions maybe) will ever make a donation. They all just think, why should i pay (even if it is just $5 to show appreciation) if i also can get all for free.

I'd vote for that :)

I'd also like to make a point after reading Slave's post above. I'm sure some of the older members can relate to what I'm about to say.

Back in the early days there was a lot more community support here. When I say this I don't mean support in hack threads, I mean more people were teaching and more people were attempting to learn.

Now I realize not everyone is here to learn php, most of you guys have your own forum going and come here for modifications this community provides. But the fact still remains that if we do indeed have less people attempting to learn and more importantly less people willing to teach, there won't be as many modifications made.

If we do allow something like this, I think it will remain a small part of the website as a whole. We will continue to support a learning environment here, but this is not something that the staff can do by themselves, it takes the entire community.

What the staff can do is provide the tools needed to make these things easier. I will use the hack database as an example, it's something we have needed for a long time and I think once it's in place it will make everyone's life a lot easier. While there has been talk of that it's not the only thing we have planned or are currently discussing among the staff.

great post brad

I wasn't really saying it was .. but surely coders will think, after not getting many donations, "Bugger this, I'm going to start charging" ..

It's all to do with the mind set. In the old days the community did hacks because they wanted to and for no other reason. Then we had people see others ask for donations and do the same. Now we have people making their hacks commercial and others will follow suit. As I said, it's all a slippery slope to a situation where no hacks are released unless they are commercial. A sad day indeed for places like vb.org ..

Frankly, in that sort of situation, I'd prefer to see the vBulletin team themselves start to release commercial hacks/addons to vB than have to pay money to people who have no track record and could close up shop the day after you've paid your money.

vB Mail is a case in point .. I paid for the hack, which included future updates, and a few weeks after I'd paid the owner said he'd stopped working on it due to him seeing his hack on a warez download page. Who's to say that won't happen with other commercial hacks?

[high]* Slave shrugs ..
[/high]
While I know the percentage of vB owners who hack their forums is low compared to those who don't, I feel this will be the slow death of the vb.org community and in turn vBulletin will start to feel the effects.

I know that I'm starting to look at other forum software and their communities "just in case" .. which I wasn't before.

Well said and accurate, Slave. ;)

I've tried to stay out of this thread, mostly for the part of my wanting to strangle a few people who've spoken their mind and some about this subject...

I understand that there are people who want to charge for their products - As I previously mentioned, I purchased TheGeek's GARS and GAB because I believe that for the time and effort TheGeek put in, and the actual time and effort it would cost me, the price seemed fair :)

Now I've already stated that software such as vBSEO is far too overpriced - That's my opinion, and I know some others will jump onto the bandwagon at this point and either agree wholeheartedly or disagree to the point of questioning my intelligence...

THIS is what is wrong with this community...

The issue here, right or wrong in whoever's eyes, is the release of a Commercial hack on vB.org as a BETA, to then never finish the BETA and move all support and functionality to a Commerical version of the script...

Why is this an issue? You aren't providing a finished Lite version of your software for free use; Why should we allow you to BETA test your software on vB.org users and then expect them to pay you $x because you want it to be commerical?

There is nothing wrong with charging people for a piece of Commercial software that may revolutionize their forums; What is wrong is baiting people into having to purchase it using the members of vB.org as your guinea pigs...

So the question becomes "How do we combat it?"

Until now, we've simply removed the modification if it has the slightest hint of doing so - We allow "Donate" buttons in hack threads because the user has a choice...

What do you propose we do? Do we charge users who wish to "bait" their clients to advertise their software? Or do we simply continue with removing the software and getting criticism...

If someone can please come up with a solution that will keep both sides happy, then by all means speak up...

Most likely, there is no perfect solution; We are always going to have a dilemma with whatever choice we make and some people aren't going to end up happy...

I'll be watching this thread to see what responses this brings and I assure you that while the tone remains civil amongst you in response or discussion of this that I will contribute thoughts and ideas, snags and problems with solutions brought up...

But already there has been some badmouthing and slagging off of other members; As of yet it hasn't happened since when Brad stood in but the tone is getting heated, and I can see something going off if it continues in this manner, so be warned - I will close this and end the discussion if someone crosses the line too much...

So please, let's try and work a solution for this that everyone can agree to, or at least propose a way to sort it out?

As always, these are my thoughts and opinions, not those of the other Staff members or Jelsoft

Chris

I think the coders have every right in the world to charge if they want to. I mean there's a lot of people trying to use that free hack to make some money for themselves at their own website.

Someone said that the hackers should be giving part of the revenue they make to vbulletin for the advertising their hack gets here.. but on the other hand maybe vbulletin should be paying hackers to make hacks because of the advertising it brings to vbulletin in return.

I for one would never have bought vbulletin had I not seen customized and hacked boards. The 'out of the box' look does absolutely nothing for me. (meaning it doesn't get me excited).

Someone else brought up the fact that there'd be people trying to charge an arm and a leg for their hacks. Its rediculous to see people charging the same price for a hack that I paid for vB in the first place, or even half the price, especially when the hack has 1/100th the functionality. I think we'd still see the high prices a lot, but a smart coder would do something like http://www.tufat.com/
He offers a lot of good scripts for cheap. I wouldn't mind paying $2 to 5$ per hack I've installed (which adds up fast) provided I could test it out and see what I'm getting. Plus he seems to have a great attitude/personality. There's several coders here who I just won't use their hacks no matter how good they are because of their 'holier than thou' attitude towards the simple end user.

on the other hand...I agree, if I'm going to be paying money I'd rather be buying a hack from the team that made the software in the first place, people that have a more vested interest in it and we know will be around.

Template Monster does have demos...have you looked at their Flash templates? However, I'm like KW802, I'm looking at taking the potential loss of business and removing the live demo's and going with watermarked screenshots. I'd rather lose legitimate business than gain illegitimate business. Sorry for jacking this thread btw!

Back on topic, I would love to see a paid advertising section here at the org. Many sites do that very successfully and not at the expense of the main purpose of the site.

You've got to be kidding me.

You guys are total doomsayers "Ive been looking around at other forums cause this will be the end of .org?". Pfft. Look, you two. Get some countrytime and sit on the porch to play some checkers and reminisce about the good ol days and how it just ain't like it used to be. All because someone started asking for donations.* :beard:

Slave, you talk about the coders mindset however you haven't released anything here that I am aware of. To say that people started seeing $$$ with donations when its been stated umpteen times that one or two people ever bother to give made everyone go commercial is just silly. Just because someone charges for their work doesn't mean that they are trying to profit from it. However thats just not good enough for you? They should have to not even cover some costs invovled to make your modifications? They should support the work, do up documentation for people who don't know how to work computers, give up their weekends and Pub time because thats your version of a perfect '.org'?

I know you guys would rather have the ol 'team .org spirit' and believe me - I would to. Heck, if this were the virtual garden of eden with everyone pitching in and working together on projects then you bet your ass I would be there in an instance. Heck, I would most likely close up shop and release all my work here as 'open source' because I wouldn't have to worry about support, future development, documentation, etc... as the community would do it for me! I have 1,000 projects I would love to throw out there in various states and work with others to bring them to fruition however lets accept that you Utopia wont come about because the community doesn't support it. In fact, I think more and more of the community finally want a choice. Why is a choice bad? Why is a choice something to be fearful of? If I want a gallery, I can use the one that the community built for free or buy vBa's or Photoposts or Coppermine. Why is that bad?

After all, if vB creates a solution for its customers that involves commercial scripts, YOU HAVE THE CHOICE to not buy any, read about them and not care one iota about them. However those that do will be happy they can finally get something that some would feel is desperately needed. In other words, we would all have choice whereas alas now... we do not.

Heres an idea: Put an 'ignore commercial hacks' or 'send commercial hacks to Coventry' option. Then you guys wont ever even know about them.

*I was just taking the piss about the Country time bit. I hope its not taken out of context. It just seems that I'm the only one around here who hasn't mentioned that Boofo is an old geezer at some stage in a post so I saw it as a weak attempt to clear that off of my 'things to do before I die' list :)

nJoy

Thats not the case for most people. I see alot of people start talking about needing people for beta testing and stuff but as soon as the hack is mentioned to be commercial the thread is nailed regardless of needing beta testers.

in response to chris's post, if that is the case of water and oil, pretaining to free and commercial modifications, then the best solution i see is creating a separate site for such commercial modifications to keep the channels of open source clear and move any guinea pig testing there so the dangling of hacks in front of others will not proceed.

There is such a place that allows that and it runs vBulletin. :)

Software Forums

Exactly how many 'hook and bait' jobs have been around?

Ok, you want to call vbSEO one - I could see that (though I'm still a fan of it), the only other I could think of was GAL PRO which I thought I was perfectly legit.

• I uploaded it here.
• Stated it was a public beta
• Stated right from the word go that it would be commercial when finished

Hell, I even released a LITE version within 24 hours of it going GOLD.

The thread was removed within what... hours of it being posted?

Anyhooo. How many other bait jobs are there? Or are we just letting 1 apple spoil the batch? Are we just being paranoid? Honestly, I dont know. I havent seen many, but then again it may just be because the mods rock at staying on top of this :)

Why not specify that if something is posted here, it must be clearly stated that it will be commercial when x happens (after 1 year, when it goes gold, whatever). Then people can make their own decisions :)
The only problem I have with that is that you have to cut some people some slack. Sometimes people simply cant do it anymore.
From that stage, the community should be able to pick up the current project and run with it. If the community can do better - then the commercial version wont.

no official, jelsoft endorsed place exists;)

This has not been the case, if you are talking about the situation with The Geek's hack this was not the same thing. The vBSEO hack was allowed because they told us they planned to release a lite version from the get-go.

Sorry, but I don't see the logic here. Being a "team" member at vb.org does not make you any better at coding hacks, or more likely to be around in the future. A number of vb.org staff have just vanished or retired, and I wasn't aware new ones were chosen purely for their coding skills. Equally, not being a team member does not make someone inferior, or more likely to vanish.

to continue what Paul M was saying, jelsoft could pack up and disappear one day as well. the internet is known to do that so just because there is a team does not mean they can provide a better product or support then any other 3rd party.