No. It shouldn't be removed. The code is there as starter-code for anybody to use on their own site. To improve it, change it, fix it. There's a wealth of info here - even in the buggiest code.

First of all - I really appreciate all the hard work and time that the hackers put into these great hacks!!

I also sometimes miss an answer, or a post I need, because either I searched on the wrong term, or it just didnt come up.

I'm very grateful for a 'here it is' response with a link to the post, or hack, or solution.

There's just no need for rudeness, esp. to new members who may not even know HOW to search a thread for what they are looking for. Just politely say "here" and give them the link..

And for anything other that they may do wrong, like IM or PM someone for support without knowing, just again let them kindly know about the protocol.

As for thanking the coders more, I would be happy to put a link down in my footer or at the bottom of my forumhome, thanking the coder for a hack - listing like

'Reported Post Creates New Thread hack created by Paul - Thank you!'

with a link to their site or something.
Maybe if this could become an extra voluntary practice for people who appreciate the free hacks, it will help the coders feel even more appreciated :)

If so, then the coders should put a little html snippet already coded with a suggested location for the really basic people to help them understand where to put it :)

There is another forum im a member of that do not allow PMs from new members.. they need atleast XX posts in order to use the feature.. sure after XX posts they will be allowed, but they need to achieve XX posts and if they try to post +++++ their way there they will be banned before then.. so its an attempt..

There's quite a few rude people on this forum and for some reason, the mods let them get away with it
It does put people off from posting here, it sure as hell puts me off.
So I agree with you

Good point. I think a lot of people think Jelsoft directs them here to ask their questions and might not even know that there are hacks ready to be downloaded here.

I also think Jelsoft needs to actually hire a staff for this site. It'd be a pretty small investment but it'd do a world of good.

This thread I started has proved interesting.

However, I don't want it to detract from the wonderful work the hack coders do on here.

My site has both of the Arcades, Inferno Quiz and vBAdvanced, all of which are major additions that my community really couldn't do without. And then I've got numerous smaller hacks installed like thread of the day, latest stats, Hangman, vbstatistik, smilies in quickreply, blink on new PM, new reputation comments, users online today, rep click tracker, quickquote, quotehighlighted, custom online locations, etc etc etc too many to mention, all of which work brilliantly and all of which help make my site what it is.

So I do not want to detract in any way from the wonderful work of the coders on here, and that was never my intention.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but:

Users who post questions are licensed Jelsoft customers. This means they are forum admins. At least I expect that a forum admin does know the basics of forum software - and searching is a basic function.
Also, I would think that total newbies don't come to vBulletin.org - they go to vBulletin.com.
Theoretically, only "advanced users" who need/want more than the standard functionality of vBulletin would come to vBulletin.org.

That would mean no more Hacks from me, as I don't have much time to support them.
Though, I still release them - stating that there is absolutely no support.
Why do I do this?
Because I think that even if there are bugs and problems, it might be useful for others (use it as a base for their own stuff, fix it, etc.)
If you come across Hacks that say "No support", and you know you need support - I'd suggest to just keep away from those Hacks.

EXACTLY!!!
It really gets on my nerves to see a forum admin that doesn't know how to upload a file or some basic HTML. How do they expect to succeed then??

in the last week, i refered 13 or 14 new users to the vbulletin.com/doc/ url because they were in need of support on how to edit templates, or give permissions on forums etc...

i think that vb.com is the place where all answers have to be given, and vb.org the place where advanced admins have access to all additions...

I'm the guy who first made this request and someone made this for me!

I since paid to get it ported to vb 3.5, you have have it for $5

Demo:

www.wordforge.net in the usercp

I'm just tired of reading all the profanity in these forums. I've reported a few posts, but it doesn't do much good because it doesn't prevent future incidents.

There's something called a learning curve. I know several admins who started forums knowing NOTHING about html, css, templates, coding, etc. They learned as they went along.

Why be so harsh on people who are on their way to learning? Why assume, automatically, that new people are lazy and selfish? When I first came here in 2002 I knew almost nothing about coding, and several of the 'smarter' members here were very kind and polite to me, and helped me out, and I was very grateful. A little kindness and patience goes a long way.

That is me. I knew nothing when I came into this. I thought I did; but I didn't. But I learned. I read books and studied. I'm by no means an expert on PHP but I can figure some stuff out.

I think the problem is people wanting to be walked through it instead of being helped to learn it.

I have to question the comment made here that vb.org should be for advanced admins only. Is it really necessary to promote such an elitist position at a forum created for the purpose of sharing hacks and coding advice with fellow board owners?

Not at all. But something to the tune of X posts to be able to post in the hacks forum at the very least would be nice - even if it's only something like 15.

The whole point really of having plugins and such in vB 3.5 is so that one doesn't need to be an advanced admin...

I also agree with the poster who said hiring a rep for Jelsoft here fulltime would go a long ways in really getting this site to realize it's full potential.

Here's my suggested steps:

1. Hire a new rep for Jelsoft here
2. Expand the staff and cull staff members that haven't done anything or been here for long stretches of time.
3. Institute rewards for coders and their plugins
4. Stop the habit of closing threads when 1 poster gets out of hand - give them a warning and a .org time-out
5. Somehow change the coders vs non-coders caste system here. It really does inhibit any sense of true community if that is one of the goals of the site.
6. Hire a coder for a full month to get this site upgraded once and for all. Not a slag, yes, it takes time for people who have a real life, but the site just seems so outta sync with the rest of the vB world.

Cheers,

~Regs.

I definitely fit into this. When I started working with forums I knew very little. I still know little, kinda. I know what I learn from trying out the things I want to do on my forum or webpage. On a scale of Beginner to Advanced, I'm definitely at least a Beginner.

I've looked around at the number of threads with people asking for help(My previous posts have been asking for help) and it really doesn't seem like help is being offered. Reading the thread and searching work, but it's also as effective as the person's ability to find the right keywords to search for. You wont always get results related to what you want. And of course, if a person lazy or looking to get right to the answers, they'll skip that process entirely.

Personally, I couldn't find the specific help I needed from reading the originating thread(all 15+ pages of it) for what I was doing, if asking for help a few times(With quite a bit of time in between each attempt) doesn't get me anything I no longer feel too inclined to bother asking further.

There are thousands upon thousands of sites where you can read tutorials and ask questions about PHP, HTML, MySQL, etc. This is not one of them. I'll be happy to answer questions about my hacks (although attempting to find the answer before asking would be nice), but I'm not here to redesign your site for you.

Those people shouldn't extensively modify their hacks with other people's code then.
The introduction of plugins helped make installs easier, but I beleive the main reason was that they wanted to make upgrades easier and support still valid without too much hassle.
Im not trying to be elitist, but people should really try to learn themselves before asking questions, which isn't the general mentality of some members. I learned this lesson 2 years ago when I asked about a while() problem and got no answers. I decided to learn for myself, which has served me well ever since.

when we buy a first car, we're supposed to have licenses... at least. even if we don't have much experience, because it's our first car, we have to learn how to drive it... we follow a course for that...

managing a software we don't know is the same... even if i was already a coder before trying vbulletin, i read the main Docs of the software to know what was inside, and where to search if i had bugs with the existing system...

actually, everybody that buy vBulletin doesn't care about reading the docs... they just think that buying it make them powerful over a team of coders that are paid for their interests...

the image of vBulletin.org is one of those sites where clients have freelancers to their wills... i've had many of my first clients here that thought they did not have to pay me for special requests because they paid 160$ for their software and that was enough...

this have to change... and i'm quite sure nothing will be done for that... so this is completely useless to debate that kind of thing.

I knew someone would say that. :nervous: (Although most questions about PHP and HTML don't end up there.) Really though, if you have a question that would fit in that forum, you're probably better off going to a site that specializes in coding and design discussion.

Sourceforge started out like this, you know. ;)

Not to disagree with you, because essentially it is the same. However, one small tidbit of information is, in fact, different.
It is the analogy of this, and possibly I have become confused by your statement, but here's how I read it.

* The first car = vbulletin.
* The license = given to us when we purchase vbulletin, not before.
* We learn to drive it = learning after we purchase vbulletin and obtain a license, not before - otherwise it would be an illegal copy of vbulletin and considered piracy.
* We follow a course = there is no course for learning vbulletin, only help from help topics.

Other than that, I agree with you. This is only my opinion and as I stated before, I could have been confused by what you have said and totally misconstrued your statement.

You Should Know...

As an administrator or staff member of your own vbulletin-powered site you should understand that:

• people have different learning curves
  • some learn visually,
  • others learn verbally,
  • others are hands on
• people come from all over the world (the WEB is a big melting pot)
  • it's difficult for some to communicate but they try ... I have even seen a few instances where these hard-to-communicate-people share their own modifications on this board
• people will post anything anytime ... you don't have to respond - IGNORE IT ... really, it's that simple
• people are not perfect - do not tell them how to speak or write
  • some people are sensitive - you may be helping them or you may be pushing them away ... bite your tongue someone else will do it
  • if it's an article or tutorial-style post then it's ok to correct spelling (send a pm) ... the author will appreciate it
• if a thread is derogatory, misleading, or against site rules you should delete it don't just close it ... it doesn't matter how many posts exists
• if a post is derogatory, misleading, or against site rules you should delete it

If you don't understand any of this:

• then you will never reach full potential
• then you don't belong here
• sorry, just ignore

Posting A Request

If you are putting in a request make sure you post details and a budget

• if you want something free ... don't expect it
• if it doesn't make sense, you will not get any takers
• if you only offer $50 for a 20 hour project you will not get any replies or you will get replies from .. let's just say that you will get what you pay for

If you are a coder and servicing a request make sure the other party knows everything up front (cost, rights, etc) ... it will save you time and headaches

vbulletin.org is available for everyone.

vbulletin.org is a community about everything that deals with vBulletin or at least it should be. For example, modifications, products, addons, styles, articles, tutorials, forum subjects regarding community building, etc, etc

there is a great Documentation Center on vb.com: http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/ that is in my opinion the first place to look at when we need some details about how to manage vBulletin...

i'm pretty sure that 75% of the requests about features would be solved by visiting this site... i usually point out the exact topic in the docs when i encounter a member that ask for help on features... they usually think we're here for support on the existing forum, but as it's not the case, i think it is just good to point them the docs instead of giving them the entire procedure...

I agree about that - which is part of what I considered help topics. When I mentioned course, to clarify, I mentioned it as in to consider a class to take, for example, where you learn how to do something; to [be] taught, etc. Sorry for the confusion.

I have to disagree with the first poster. I have seen help given out, but after reviewing the hacks over the past versions, 2 - 3 and 3.5 it seems like the same list of people developing hacks.

However the people searching for hacks and asking questions have gotten ruder and more demanding. I'll point to vbspace for some on the insults there just becuase people can't wait for something to be produced.

I see nothing but jerky comments left and right from people with a post count 10. "Oh your hack broke my forum, it doesn't work,bla bla bla I'm cussing now"

Give me a break. I've tried to be as helpful as I could on this forum until it gets to a certian point and then you're just drained and you start to care less.

People need to understand that YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO ANYTHING. PERIOD[U] Just becuase a hack might be supported or you think you deserve it, the author doesn't owe you a thing. Its that simple.

I don't see any user support agreements here. And the SUPPORTED check box is not a user support agreement.

A community is only as strong as its members.

I am down to 3 showers a week. :D
- How strong must I be ?

[high]* Zachariah goes back to his cave.[/high]

Sorry to say this but after reading your posts in some threads i don't think you are the right person to comment on this subject because people like you starts everything.

I also think how strong i am :p

Its very difficult for a new user who wants a hack, but the thread of the hack has 1100 replies and two months has passed since the author ( of the hack ) has last updated the hack, especially when within those 1100 replies are reported bugs, and maybe some fixes to some bugs .

Going thru 1100 posts is not easy.

we wish the hacks thread would only contain reported bugs, and the fixes, instead most are filled with "usernamehere clicks install"
"thanks for the blah blah blah"
"Joe, nice style on your forum"
"How did you do blah blah blah in your footer Rick ? " ( why do we have a PM button here again ? )

I'm sure the author appreciates those comments, but I believe they can click and view who has INSTALLED their hacks.

Maybe vb.org should install the Thank You hack and promote usage of it.

( exits stage left )

Sounds like a good idea. That is one reason I don't say thank you often is because it clutters the thread.

No, they can't (and yes, we've asked ;)).

Could it be that before the plug in system people used to have to edit the code themselves and some actually learned a thing or two by doing so. I think the plug in system has made people lazy and stupid.

I believe this holds true. I learned how to read PHP (I can fix an error generally if I get something wrong. I can't make things yet though. >.<) by fixing errors I got. Plug-ins are a no brainer though.

Im surprise its not

on vbhackers.com thats how it is

cant understand why vb.org hasnt done the same

oh well .........

PS: I APPRECAITE ALL THE CODERS HARD WORK ( even if I dont say so in all hack threads )

I am guilty of this - but for two reasons. 1) As a point of reference from when I installed the hack and 2) to subscribe to the thread in case there are problems with the hack - I can see what replies have been made as it has been the case in quite a few hacks I've used that all is not perfect and I have had issues (not to say that the hack doesn't work but might not A) work with another hack that uses the same/similar hook or B) be compatible with my style or C) has small bugs that need fixing.)

If I do have problems with the hack, I usually search for my post within the thread and go from there. When I am interested in a hack, prior to clicking install, I will read the threads and make post-notes of problems others will have and remember that if I encounter a similar problem, I know where to look to fix it.

yeah i find that as well to be the most annoying thing. i dont mind the stupid questions or double post, nobody is forcing you to read them.

Is there some other method to know what someone posted then ?

Ok well I've said it once, but no one listened, so I'll say it again...

Coder Levels (Coder/Advanced Coder/Master Coder) These levels should be revised. Or removed to just give Coder/Member

Reason: The levels use statistics and no way correlate to the ability of the coder (as the status implies) vb.org is currently implicity ranking hacks as to their quality in a way that is completely unreliable.

Once they figure out how to use the PM function you are SO getting angry PM's!

Almost every question you or anyone else has to ask has already been asked. Which is where the frustration comes in, people need to learn to search and actually put in some effort to get what they need. Go look in the request forums and see how many duplicate requests there are, sometimes on the same page. Of course sometimes there are going to be duplicate threads because the search is only as good as the keywords used but still, it's a bit much. January 2005 was the first time I'd done anything more than post on a vbulletin board and I started up my own. I rarely posted threads/posts asking for help because I took the time to look up the errors and figure out the fix myself and then if I was still unable to I posted about it. There's also a lot of people asking for hacks that have been released within a month prior to them asking for it. I used to post links to the hacks for them but no longer will. I refuse to help people be lazy. As much as I love the plugin/product feature it's only encouraging people to be even more lazy. A great example of lazy people wanting all the work done for them can be found in the "spice up your profile like myspace" thread.
Or check out the profile comments thread and people are asking questions that are addressed in the FIRST post. It'd be one thing if the answer was in post 300 in 600 post thread but it's in the FIRST post. I also have gotten quite a few IM's asking for help and I'll give them suggestions and they'll try one or two and then say "can't you just do it for me. i'll give you rights, etc..." and most of them want it for free. So now I either ignore them or say I'm too busy.
And don't even get me started on how amazed I am that so called forum admins can't even post in the correct forum. I'm afraid to see what their boards look like.
I have no problem helping people if they've tried but just can't figure it out and have run out of options. But not the "I just had this problem and want someone else to fix it for me right now" kind of people. Apparently nobody wants to actually put in any work these days. I don't think a day goes by I'm not tweaking, modifying or working on some way to make my board better. Only thing more frustrating that seeing all the lazy people is seeing people enabling the laziness by helping them out.