I keep hearing all the commercial people say that they weant the hacks here because it is only fair to the users to be offered them. Fess up guys, it's not as much about the users as it is about the bucks. Plain and simple. ;)

If it was about bucks would I talk about making free stuff still. I think not. The hacks I make pay support them and my free hacks.

I mean I have over 10 hacks in the works right now of which a good deal of them are set to be free hacks. Yet I run short on time becuase of having to spend more time doing custom stuff. So by being able to sell my stuff here I will be able to spend more time doing publicly released hacks.

I'm glad people can discuss this civilly. :) Keep up the discussion - in the end, this is a community, and a community is made up of it's members - so it's important that we let our views be known.

And the bottom line comes out. ;)

Some of us code and support the community because we want to give back. Others are in it for other reasons.

Sorry, Tim -- but the whole thought of using someone else's bandwidth and disk space to freely promote your for-profit enterprise just doesn't mesh.

:p

Too bad we can't get more of the newer memebers to get involved with this discussion. It will ultimately affect them the most.

THANK YOU, Christine. You are an Angel. ;)

Okay listen here.

I spend over 20 hours a week helping new coders learn what there doing here on vb.org via msn and aim.

I spend at least 30 hours a week coding on my hacks.

I spend another 10+ hours supporting my hacks and others.

I give a hell of alot back to the community.

Being able to sell the few mods that I do sell. Helps me support my free hacks better. Would you rather I not release and free hacks becuase people resent me for releasing pay hacks.

I guess my time spent helping users above and beyond what most expect out of a coder is stupid then huh. Becuase oh boy I can talk about what im planning hack wise becuase its gonna be pay wow that just means less feedback on it.

Less features for others to use.

I am working on comercial grade products here that will be bigger then vbulletin itself.

I am sorry if you feel they should be released free but there is no way in hell a product that im putting that much time into thats designed to make people money will be released for free.

I mean the statement you quoted was intended for this context as follows.

Say I have a nice hack and im selling it for 10-15 bucks. Yet I have to pay vb 5-10 bucks or what ever they charge then basicly im paying vb to sell the hack then. Thats why the price would have to change.

Lets see 10 - 10 = 0. That math doesnt work for me im sorry.

Please provide the link where I can pay to advertise on vB.com & vB.org.... I'll sign up today.

With the current title I am sure many will bypass it as just another drama thread that is going to meet the closing end.

But perhaps their bottom line is the $, if so more power to them but in turn they need to give something to get something I believe.

I am shocked my solution (compromise) was so quickly eluded, I mean if this is to be best for the ‘community’ it should be paid to the community, perhaps I am wrong.

If they want to promote those who would intend such promotions of their paid work (business) need to offer up some compromise, that is life after all.

There are even people attacking hack authors even when hacks aren't even commercial.

Everyone seems to be jumping the gun here. Nothing has been set up as far as commercial hacks being allowed here in any way whatsoever. This is a debate/discusssion. When and if that day ever comes, I'm sure there will be a lot more discussion on the subject. ;)

Random thoughts

- How many of you run your vb boards with adsense, or some other form of donation/advertising/sponsors system and make something ( doesn't have to be much, but something ) out of it.
- How many of you use free hacks to better your site
- How many of you think that because of these free hacks implemented on your boards, your site offers your members and target audience better resources to want to visit/stay/participate/invest/sponsor/donate.
- How many of you would actually recipocrate the benefit you receive ( monetary or otherwise ) to the hack authors who put in countless hours of time, effort and foregone opportunity cost to provide these free hacks and support them to the best of their abilities.

exactly thats part of my problem with this whole crap. I dont really get respect anywhere. I release free shit people abuse it and remove copyrights.

I dont mind paying some % of how much I will charge for it to advertise it. My problem was with the talk of a fixed price.

You forgot the [sarcasm] tags. ;)

No sponsors or advertising on my site.
Yes, I use free hacks.
I could offer gold nuggets and that won't change the fact that the male Admin on my site is a loser. ;)
And if I could afford it, I would send me a check every week. :(

My favorite is last year I came across somebody who removed my credits entirely from both the 'readme' file & PHP file and then posted it on another vB related site under their name. After that I stopped responding to my PMs. :ermm:

I make nothing nor ask for donations.
I use a few, not to many thought
None at all, it is just something to have more fun with.... the community makes itself.
I do, I thank those whos hacks I have used. :) That is all I get from my community is a thanks. And oddly enough that is worth it.

No, I didn't. ;)

My apologies then, sir. ;)

There is no link, this is all just discussion at this point. :)

OK, I'm starting to think Boofo was right and I needed a [sarcasm] tag. :p

I have some commercial ones for sale if you'd like some. ;)

Here we go now were making fun of the people who are going commercial. :-/

I don't consider it making fun of... more along the lines of levity to try & lighten the dark tone that a thread like this often drifts to. :)

Well if we didnt all have to take such extreme stances to one side or the other which we always end up there becuase of comments from people who are against it.

I mean Id rather be able to carry on a civil conversation about this but I doubt we will ever be able to.

[No offence intended]
Maybe some of the posts in this thread are meant to diffuse a somewhat tense and touchy subject but I for one, do not appreciate it, given that this should be a serious discussion thread ( else it would still be in the lounge area instead of Site Feedback, no ? ).
Let's stick to the topics being discussed at hand, and do it maturely, considering all points of view and responding accordingly, in tactful and well thought out mature speak without the need for playing things down with *tryingtobefunnynotfunny bits and pieces inserted here and there.
[/No offence intended]

2cents

It doesn't really matter what any of us "appreciate" or not. What's happening is that this is just turning into a re-hash of the last thread from when this topic came up with nothing new coming out of it. Some people don't see a problem with it, some people do see a problem with it and the staff guys/gals are taking it all under advisement.

You can have your 2cents back.

Lighten up, Tim, you're taking this all too serious. ;)

the community has recently gotten very violent. i feel the community is becoming overcrowded with +++++++s. anyone see that new store i think its "Ultimate Shop", that poor guy is being flogged by +++++++s who do not appreciate his time in trying to create a store but instead yell at him calling his hack pitiful. they continue to insult UShop. i really see why some have gone commercial, this community is slowly becoming full of +++++++s who say give me give me but if it doesnt satisfy them 100% they have a right to piss all over it. they seem to think "oh i paid for vbulletin, so if a free hack doesn't satisfy me i will scream and yell as though i paid for it." actually even this has carried over to the .com, people screaming and yelling at devs. critizing them with snide remarks and +++++++ comments. what i really feel like saying to these +++++++s is "++++ off you little greedy +++++, go to phpbb if you want something for free."

I'd ask for a couple of cents but I would probably get scolded again. :(

Again lets try to keep discussion on the topic at hand. Everyone has been good about keeping a cool head for the most part and I would like to see this trend continue.

sorry for the outburst but i am really sick of these people with like 10 posts suddenly being critics who probably do not know how to code a page of html nor what an opening tag of php looks like...

So true..

But gawd, gone like 3 hrs, come back and there's 3 more pages than when I left :surprised:

Anyways, my views if I need it that badly, i'll pay for it..coders here are very good at what they do and dont have every second of every day to support things for free..its like asking for free hosting then getting mad when your site is down 90% of the time..

[high]* TyleR throws Booby a dollar
[/high]

Now be nice!

Well, in case you do not see it, I am merely trying to keep this ontrack so that something new and good can come out of this thread because it is something that interests me, as well as something of benefit to the community at large, whatever the outcome, if any ( the very idea of the discussion taking place ).

reminds me of people critizing my support policy of deny for any reason at any time. um i did it for free, dont i have a right to my life outside of this hack?

I see it very well, thank you. I also saw it the last time it came up. ;)

dude I have been talking with you on msn and you watched me say lol to you there. You know my comment was sarcasm.

RIGHT ON.

From my viewpoint I feel that the following points are valid:

• There is a lack of appreciation from some members here
• That lack of appreciation can lead to projects becoming abandoned or taken commercial
• Once commercial, they are (for a large part) abandoned on this site
• This leads to large contributors not being around as much
• This leads to more .ogres here

Yea, my math is skewed, but its just another way of looking at it!
The way .org is set up now leads to a natural culling of a lot of talent around here however it doesn't cull the negative users at all. If you cant see this crimps a lot of potential quality for add ons, then my name is Olivia Newton John.

Look how all the massive projects are either getting abandoned or going commercial. It all results in the same thing: They wont be on .org anymore which in turn makes this less and less of a useful resource for vbulletin customers.

Yes, there will always be great FOC additions released here regardless of any change in rules. There will always be coders who catch the vb bug and go crazy releasing and supporting stuff FOC. There will always be content here for free. However it is my opinion that Jelsoft needs to change .org to better suit its customers.

Jelsoft should take every opportunity to provide its customers (and even more importantly: its potential customers) a showcase for what their product can do. Most people do not buy a forum system simply to run a vanilla installation - most buy because they can morph it visually and functionally. Right now, the only showcase for Jelsoft is .org which:
Is running an outdated version of vBulletin
Only allows FOC add ons
The add ons are frequently littered with 'this sucks, doesn't work' posts, half finished projects or totally abandoned projects
Frequently 'hobby' level modifications (nothing wrong with that - but if your looking for something massive, you can be hard pressed to find it here)

Basically, its not the resource and service the Jelsoft could be offering.

Solutions?

Awhile back (before I switched to the dark side and went commercial) I remember Wayne suggesting a fee for being listed in a commercial section of the site. I was not for this as its just a cost that gets passed on to customers and makes it difficult for people to make a progression from hobbyist to capitalist :)
However I see no other way to do it. Its only fair all around. If someone cant afford (within reason) to be 'listed' because no one buys their stuff - then its generally a sign that the product sucks, support sucks or the idea sucks. Therefore its not as valuable for Jelsoft customers.

The old doomsayers need to look to the future and what could benefit all vBulletin users best. Offering people a place to look for commercial scripts is not going decay the amount or quality of offerings FOC here. Oddly enough - with no commercial options - that is already happening.

Right on Geek, !!!!

Couldnt have said it better !!!! Look at the quality product offered by filburt(vBulletin Mail for Users) again a classic example of why this product I think should be offered here.

There are other products listed here as well. Above all the community needs to mature and appreciate that not everyone wants a FREE hack, if someone has got the $$$ but not the time, heck they'll pay for it rather than waiting eons for something to come up.

And lets not forget if this site is the ultimate resource for vb then to be honest I think its lacking a bit. Surely the ultimate resource is not just focused on freebies? Surely, we need to move on from coders who advertise their sites via signatures and offer them an outlet for them to express their products. That shows a community growing in size that offers a number of services from free scripts, one time donation's to commercial scripts.

Kindest regards

Hanif

p.s. In no way am I a sales man for filburt or geek, but I recognise their talents and greatly admire the work!!!

See this (vB.com):
While I assume that a bigger part 'morph it visually', there are still a ton of forums that run the default style, simply replacing the logo or possibly adjusting colors.