Thanks Paul M ! ;)

@amykhar - Sure - quality of Support is a good argument.

But did you know that we will have members of the Official vbulletin-germany Crew on Board (at this Time 2).

Did you think about - maybe we canno?t give all answers that you can give for your Hack but we can translate answers of you for our german Users too ?

It is our highest Interest to give Quality to our Users - in any other Way we wouldnt have Users.

Hope you change your Vote ! ;) Think about it ....

Let me get things straight here:

First of all, I'm not really going to kick into the GPL discussion above, it's just a simple question wether or not he uses parts of GPL-Software and relies on them as integral parts of his project - I haven't looked at the script, so I'm not able to tell, but if he does, GPL is necessary and redistribution (with intact copyright) is possible without explicit written consent from him - but that's not a basis for negotiations, that's just stupid swashbuckling.

Secondly, I'd like to say something regarding vBhacks-germany.com.

I personally would support the idea as a lot of native german speakers do not speak English very well and a concept like the one which is intended here, could well work out.
I don't really see why people are so fussy about it, I mean, I'm a programmer myself, I've been victimized by pirates who stole my software and I've been victimized by people who translated my software without my knowledge (non-gpl software), yet, I can't see why you're fussy about hacks which are meant to just help the community (especially since all copyrights will be kept intact).

What good is it if a well worthy market (Germany) is unable to use your scripts because they are unable to understand your scripts?

Think about it.

That's a very good aruement nullified, but I find Revan's better.

Phrasing a hack takes a lot of time, way more than it would take to simply not phrase the hack.

As redlabour mentioned before, we will have members from the official vb-germany.com team in the vbhacks-germany.de team.

Also Scott Molinari, publisher of Adduco Digital e.K. and official reseller from Jelsoft Enterprises Limited in Germany, told us that integration into the official licence validation system should not be a problem (when vbhacks-germany runs well), so don't worry about unlicensed people getting hacks and support for vB.

Support will only be given to licensed people.

What I can't understand: Why do some of the hack authors here in the thread make such "trouble" when we will translate their hacks into German an d "re-releasing" them on vbhacks-germany.de to support non-english-speaking licenceholders?

YOU, as author, will be named as author of YOUR hack.
YOU, as author, will get all the credits for YOUR hack.

vb-hacks-germany will only translate your hacks, no changes are made to the technical source codes.

Only aim of our intention with vbhacks-germany:
Supporting non-english-speaking licenseholders with "language-support" so that the vb-community may become bigger and bigger (especially with people think of buying another bbs because of missing german-hack-support).

Please have a look at the poll in this thread. More than 62 % voted FOR the project vbhacks-germany with german hack support. More than 24% of the voters will have a look at the new hack-support project. Only 13 % voted against the project.

Also look at the poll herein the thread: Over 72 % voted that we should translate their hacks.

I think that this shows necessity of starting a german speaking hack support.

Also think of Germany beeing the second largest area selling vBs (as nullfield just mentioned above)!

If vbhacks-germany.com will become an official Jelsoft sister company, I doubt anyone will have a problem with releasing their hacks there.

We only want to start a german speaking hack support project like vb.org. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's fine Hellraider, but just translate the phrases into an XML file, don't go taking all our code and redistributing it :) I can't see anyone with having a problem with providing just XML files and a link to download the modification from vB.org!

I think you didn't get the point ;)

Non-english-speaking, german license-owners won't come to vb.org (linked or not) cause this forum is based on english. All support is done in english.

We did have some threads on vbulletin-germany.com where non-english-speaking users were told (with a link) to download a hack on vb.org and they told us that they can't manage with the english forum.

Why do you think there is vb-germany.com? Right, cause there are many german useres out there so the conclusion is to start a german-speaking-hack-support-forum like vbhacks-germany.

Did you see any german support thread here on vb.org or do you think english speaking users on vb.org accept support threads only in german?

I don't think so ;)

Think of it . . .

Perhaps your not seeing my point. They haven't got to come here for support, just to download the modifications. Offer any support you like at your site, providing my modification is not posted as an attachment on your site and is only downloadable from here :)

these two posts basically sum up my attitude regarding the matter.

This is a question of fairness and ethics ;) (Now it is getting deeper . . . ;))

Linking directly to files on other's webspace is also known as traffic theft. I don't think that this is what vb.org wants us to do. vbhacks-germany don't want to "work" against vb.org. We want to work WITH vb.org and FOR the (especially non english-speaking part of the) german community.

If linking directly to files within the vb.org webspace is OK for the vb.org team then we will think of it. But there has to be a word from the vb.org team itself about the direct linking.

Normally you link to a thread with a file to download (to give credits to the hack author) and not directly to a file. And this is (the first point I mentioned ;)) what we don't want to force our non-english-speaking users to: Reading a thread they don't understand.

There's no harm linking to a file at all, because only licensed users can download them.

I think that's the part which the coder doesn't like.

A direct link to the file would mean that a lot of people will just download it without clicking install!

That doesn't count for vb.org or against vbhacks-germany ;)
We also give support only to licensed users which are validated through the official licence validation (see above).

Where is the difference between vb.org? Here you can also download a hack without having to click on "Install" ;)
Also no point for vb.org or against vbhacks-germany.

i believe they can download it here and translated there still.

but still my thoughts on support, you cannot support a hack nearly well enough as the creator can, so what happens if one of your members comes into trouble and you can't help them and the creator doesn't know german?

are you just going to be the middle man?

i think you will be doing A LOT of that, and you will be sick and tired of it within a month.

Hellraider,

The problem is in the past, alot of other people (I won't be specific here) have stolen code and repulished it at their own on varius vBulletin fan sites.

This has done nothing but put a bad taste in our mouth so far.

And it seems to me that you are burning a path to your goal at the moment without stoping to care who that fire might hit.

Yes, we might be stuborn but it comes from being burned a few too many times before.

If you provide a direct link to the file, 9 out of 10 users downloading the file wouldn't even know of the existance of the install button ;).

Supporting english hacks without the author is still done @ vb-germany.com and this is done nearly perfect (especially Mystics has to be named here) with no open questions. I don't see a problem with that point.

But vbulletin.com (like vb-germany.com) does not give offical hack-support, and so vb.org had been started as a platform to release and support (english) hacks.

So we try to start a german hack-support-community for the (only) german speaking part of the world . . .

@eva01_:
If a hack isn't supported by the author: Do you think this hack is installed by users or users are interested at an unsupported hack? When the hack runs fine there will be no problem (since new vB versions are running ;)) Maybe in the first time this is OK, but when there are troubles (and there are nearly everytime troubles, because no installation of vB looks like the other; why do you think there are so many support threads here on vb.org where users getting into trouble with hacks?) with the hack and the author can't or woun't support his own hacks. I don't think that users are interested in new hacks from this author in the future.

vbhacks-germany is building a bridge (as you mentioned) between an (only english or not german speaking) author and the (only) german speaking part of the world.

Main advantages for the author:

- more popularity
- more credits

maybe then as you want to build a bridge.

the best way to start building the bridge. is not to create an entirely new website, but to ask Xenon to create a German support forum on vbulletin.org.

;)

i think we have come to a revelation here

<< all thanks to my genius bwahaha

The problem with that is moderation...

Ah, and so vb.org is the only place where this never happens (looking at the gloriole on vb.org community)? Where do you think all the repulished hacks on the net are coming from when vb.org is the only place to get the hacks? *wondering*
In the past there were no cars, no TVs and no computers. People are hunting with bows in the woods :mad: What is this comparison about?

I (for myself) will not translate and a hack if the author doesn't want me to. See also my posting @ vb-germany. There are a lot of discussions on vb-germany in this thread where "problems" that some of you mentioned are actually discussed.

Where did you get this quota from? ;)
Do you think the quota is higher here on vb.org? Maybe 5/10 but who knows? Who tells you that all users clicking on "Install" really installed the hack? Where can I click on "Uninstall" when I uninstalled a hack? Who prevents users not having installed the hack on clicking the Install button? . . .
The Install-button is a nice feature, nothing more, nothing less. You can make no solid conclusions out of a Install-quota.

I think the popularity of a hack is count on posts in support threads and not by clicking on an "Install" button.

Xenon has still mentioned this point before: http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/for...44&postcount=8
He mentioned it within the vb.org team but Chen and Erwin didn't want to have such a german part in vb.org. See here.
So there has to be an new website, cause vb.org is not supporting a german part under vb.org. He also mentioned that he will support such a german hack support forum, when it is offically supported.

german moderators, can't be that hard to find them, since there is an official german vb site

no that shows how many bugs there are sometimes

A support thread shows the popularity of a hack more than an "Install" button quota where everybody can click on but do not have to click on when using a hack.

And you think that (only) german-speaking users have no rights on support by other users cause the author can't speak german? The author can't or do not want to support only-german-speaking users so he should be thankful that other users supportting his hack. You said for yourself that there are sometimes many bugs within the hacks.

No, that shows the following;
The age of the thread; the older the thread, the more replies
The bugs in the hack; If the hack is one big bughole, loads of people are going to reply to say so.

The number of installs shows if a hack is liked or not. If I like a hack, and think its a good one, I click install, even though I might not use it, my click might just get that hack into the HOTM.

The install button now isn't that much of a measure, but when you would just provide direct links to the downloads, 3/4th of the German speaking community wouldn't know of the install button's existance, so they won't click it.

If that happens, you might aswell just remove the install button, as there will be way more actuall installations rather than install clicks.

So tell me other possibilities to support non-english-speaking users when vb.org did not want to build a german forum within vb.org and we are not pleased to start a new german speaking support forum.

Linking to an english forum is no acceptable conclusion for non-english-speaking users.

i have also seen posts in a hack thread of

"this is the worst hack ever created"

so that also shows the popularity?????



EDIT: Hellraider did you ask Xenon or Erwin (i forget which one owns the site) if they would create a german support forum?

What I would suggest is the following:

Code, or let a hack be coded which does this:
It combines the link to the file and the link to install in 1 link.
In other words, when the member downloads the program, he automaticly "clicks" install.

And I say again, if vbhacks-germany will really become an official Jelsoft sister company, a lot of people would allow their hacks to be released there.

@eva01_ Yes, he asked Xenon, he liked it, but Erwin didn't.

Tell me about it, phrasing (even the partial one I do now) is a pain :p
But I am still going to get the entire hack fully phrased, even if it is the last thing I do! :)

Noone seems to have brought it to attention that it is fully possible to hijack the install button.
I myself have done this in my RPG installer file, and they could do it for vbhacks-germany.de

Not to mention the possibility of manually recreating the install function, Im sure Xenon would not be a stubborn bastard if an official Jelsoft site in his mother tongue asked if they could have his Install button hack ;)


EDIT: As a guy who wants tons of install clicks for his hack, I like this suggestion.
The issue, however, would be these:
a) Databases. Im pretty sure it doesn't store hack installs flatfile. If the members no dot speak english, Im sure they haven't registered here at vBorg
b) Update Emails. They would recieve lots of English update emails...

I did, in my last post :p.

I'm creating one right now. It won't be a public release, but it's not that hard.

I don't like the idea of vbhacks-germany having their own install system, as its kinda useless for the coders, as they probably never even visit vbhacks-germany.

EDIT:
Very true, those problems exist.
But, I guess if vbh-g will become a sister company, a solution can easily be found.

Meh, you lucked out by like 5 secs before my statement would have been valid. Sneaky bastard ;)


Unless they are running a pirate board, such a hack don't have all that many uses to the general public (that I can think of) ;)

True. I would possibly visit my thread just to check the install count, but it looks much better if it is merged with this one :)

I already have a couple of suggestions:

• Allow remote connection to the SQL, and create a seperate mysql_connect() for the install click file on .de
• if that is too big of a security hole, create a new DB, have a seperate mysql_connect() to this DB, then have a cronjob here at .org that, every 24h or so, fetches all the install clicks from the new db, and merges it with this one.

[edit]
I believe the update email issue will solve itself if it only merges the COUNT, not the actual USERNAMES from .de
[/edit]

There may of course exist a hella easier way of doing it. but meh. I just like to post here, ok!? So sue me! :p

Heh, I'm smooth :p.

You just want my hack released don't you :ninja:

I would surely check it, heh.
It would look a lot better + it helps in HotM ;)

You install and post horny bastard! PERVERT!

Heh. :D

Who is running a "Pirate Board" ???? :ninja: :surprised:

Yes, exactly, because this user has once installed the hack. If he likes the hack or not isn't the point.

I did not ask Xenon about this. He told this in the above mentioned thread that he would speak to Chen and Erwin.

THX Revan. Other good points "against" linking to vb.org ;)

Thanks for your agreement Deaths ;)


@all: This thread has been started to get tips on running a german speaking hack support forum AND NOT on getting an install button included within vbhacks-germany ;)

Are you the "general public"????

Erm hm. If you think that my recongnition of the problems with getting the install function to count on vBorg was an argument for not linking to vBorg, then... meh I will keep my comments to myself... (they would probably be censored anyways)

I agree with Zachery.


IMO, it's a good idea to translate hacks for customers who don't understand english, but support isn't that easy when you are not the coder of the hack.

On vbulletin-fr (just an example, don't want to discuss about our site) we publish translated hacks (with permission of course) and I noticed that it's a bit difficult to help people (especially when there are only two coders in the team). Of course we translate hacks which seem to be bugs-free but it's not always the case. I'm not the author of this site, but I think I will remove in the future many hacks in order to be more efficient

@Hellraider.

Maybe you should ask german coder first and BTW create a german vb hack community which wouldn't be dependant of vb.org. There are many german coders (more than french I suppose, they are too lazy), ask them :)

I think enough has been said, and we will just need to wait a while to see if vbhacks-germany will indeed become a Jelsoft sister company.

You guys may translate my /me, /you, /meid, /youid hack, and my BBcode for registered members only hack.

Exactly my feelings, too, Amy. ;)

Well actually this poll makes me laugh (sorry no offense).

First of all Amykhar say he voted not to have is hacks be translated, but the poster seem so confident about himself, he didn't even give this option. It is either now, or later. Never isn't an option.

Been following this thread and tried to keep my comment, but now i am posting anyway. ;)

The arguments given to why this step is needed, don't make to much sense to me, and is making the German people (falsly i think) look like uneducated. The Germans are getting a good education i think and all should be able to understand english and write it a bit. This is a community where people from all over the world are participating, for most of them English is not their first (or even second) language, and a lot of countries have unfortunatly much worse educational systems then germany. I see here people strugling and putting a lot of effort in trying to write a post in somehow understandable english. No matter of it is full of gramatic errors (like 99% of my posts :D) or spelling errors, i can have nothing but respect for these people trying, and i will try to answer them showing that respect, if needed answering twice or even more.

If you are someone serious working on running a webpage, a board on any other computer related product, you simply can't get by without some basic knowledge of english.

If you want to translate phrases in any of my hacks, go ahead and post the result here. Posting my hacks on other sites: no. And like mentioned before, real support can only be given by the coder himself.

Hmm think i better stop again, could go on too long about this. :D

It should be that way, but unfortunately I often see the contrary :(. Moreover, some coders sometimes write lots of abbreviations (and slang also) in their posts -> hard to understand if you only know english basis (for instance : BTW, IMO aso ...)

If you don't understand something, all you got to do is ask. I think most coders (and other members) are willing to explain or to rephrase if someone don't understand.