vbhacks-germany.de [Archive]

Zachery

03-12-2005, 11:43 AM

Hi @all,

in the next Weeks we are starting the German vBulletin-Hack-Community as you can see here :

http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=16286

Our new URL will be : http://www.vbhacks-germany.de

Everybody how can speak German is invited to join us and help us to keep the whole vBulletin-Family together.

Everybody who want?s to get his english Language Hacks translated can contact us here.

See you ....
I have the same opinion about this as I do at vBulletin.com.

I wish you luck with your site, but I would not want my own hacks, (my username & GeekyDesigns) released outside of this site or my own.

redlabour

03-12-2005, 04:53 PM

@Zachery - can you tell me a reason please ?
We just want to release "german" Translations and of course under your Name and to your Honour.

Sorry i can´t understand this Opinion - please give us Reasons.

Gio~Logist

03-12-2005, 05:16 PM

I havent really started doing many hacks yet, however, i dont see the problem. We release hacks to help people with vbulletin and we dont get paid for it either. So if we allow these people to translate them we'd just be helping more people. Nothing but good can come from this really..........................BUT THATS MY OPINION

redlabour

03-12-2005, 09:08 PM

Thx .... that?s excactly why i can understand Zachery?s Opinion ... :disappointed:

And Zachery, vBXIrc was one of the first things i want to translate - because i love this Hack .... it makes me sad .... did you really wan?t to lost one of your biggest Fans ? ;) :D

Ohhh ....

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pjirc/

License : GPL

So vBXIrc can?t be under the Hacks you are not allowing us to translate and deliver it.

Vega

03-15-2005, 05:54 PM

Hm. So you're really about to try to translate hacks into german. Maybe we should be glad, that you're not about to do that vice versa. Never saw accents in english words before. Besides your lack of understanding how to the tenses.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't flaming. Friendly speaking it's more that I'm worried about correct translations.

Haette Dir das auch im deutschen Forum schreiben koennen, aber ich dachte, es wuerde hier besser rueberkommen. ;)

Zachery

03-15-2005, 05:57 PM

Thx .... that?s excactly why i can understand Zachery?s Opinion ... :disappointed:

And Zachery, vBXIrc was one of the first things i want to translate - because i love this Hack .... it makes me sad .... did you really wan?t to lost one of your biggest Fans ? ;) :D

Ohhh ....

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pjirc/

So vBXIrc can?t be under the Hacks you are not allowing us to translate and deliver it.
As I said on vBulletin.com PJIRC is under the GPL, my intergration is not.

eva01_

03-15-2005, 06:28 PM

unless you have a similar validation system for licenses like vbulletin.org does then my future hacks will not be released to be translated either

Zachery

03-15-2005, 06:59 PM

unless you have a similar validation system for licenses like vbulletin.org does then my future hacks will not be released to be translated either
I wanted to note that, If someone does want to translate my hacks they are welcome to, HOWEVER, they may only be released here in the original thread, thats if you want release and support the translation.

redlabour

03-15-2005, 08:28 PM

At first - we are including a validation Solution ! Of course ... !

@Zachery - if you want or not - one of the GPL Rules are saying definitely that any modification of GPL licensed Software has to be under the same license.
It doesnt make any change if you say that your "Hack" isnt under it.

@all - yes my english isnt so god this Time like that Time i learned it. But it is absolutely good enough to translate English Sentences and words into German.

.

Link14716

03-15-2005, 08:53 PM

redlabour

03-16-2005, 04:18 AM

No - it isnt - he is distributing Parts from a GPL Software. Thats enough.

eva01_

03-16-2005, 05:42 AM

i would have to see this validation system first hand, before i released my hacks

Akex

03-16-2005, 08:51 AM

No - it isnt - he is distributing Parts from a GPL Software. Thats enough.

But the other parts he wrote are not under GPL, so his hack is not under GPL ;)

Marco van Herwaarden

03-16-2005, 09:48 AM

But the other parts he wrote are not under GPL, so his hack is not under GPL ;)
Only his parts are not under GPL. All other parts are still under GPL (even if he modified it a bit).

Zachery

03-16-2005, 11:46 AM

Can you redistribute pjirc? sure, can you redistrubte my intergration? no

vau7

03-16-2005, 12:25 PM

Dean C

03-16-2005, 12:25 PM

redlabour - are you planning on taking everyone's modifications here, without asking them, then releasing it in german on your site?

eva01_

03-16-2005, 12:28 PM

I think it doesnt matter if GPL or not - the only Thing i dont understand is the reason why you wont give your agreement.

I dont need this translation and i am not really a part of this project, but i spent some time in the past to translate your Hack for my board. What is the problem for you if somebody else would like to help some others and the hackusers dont have to do this crappy work?

I just cant understand your reasons for this behaviour.

its his decision he created it, he decides what is done with it.

end of story

Dean C

03-16-2005, 12:37 PM

I think it doesnt matter if GPL or not - the only Thing i dont understand is the reason why you wont give your agreement.

I dont need this translation and i am not really a part of this project, but i spent some time in the past to translate your Hack for my board. What is the problem for you if somebody else would like to help some others and the hackusers dont have to do this crappy work?

I just cant understand your reasons for this behaviour.

If you made a pot out of clay and painted it black and sold it, would you like it I came along and painted it green and resold it? It's called common courtesy and you don't take others work and distribute it unless you have permission :)

Zachery

03-16-2005, 12:56 PM

I think it doesnt matter if GPL or not - the only Thing i dont understand is the reason why you wont give your agreement.

I dont need this translation and i am not really a part of this project, but i spent some time in the past to translate your Hack for my board. What is the problem for you if somebody else would like to help some others and the hackusers dont have to do this crappy work?

I just cant understand your reasons for this behviour.

I have no issue with the translations itself, I just do not want it released outside of this site.

If you want a german translation I will see If i can provide one myself :)
(I am starting to learn german, and my gf is fluent in german, I'll see if she can take the time to work on it)

vau7

03-16-2005, 03:36 PM

If you made a pot out of clay and painted it black and sold it, would you like it I came along and painted it green and resold it? It's called common courtesy and you don't take others work and distribute it unless you have permission :)

Sure, but here is nothing to sell, there are just "presents".

@Zachery: No, i dont need the german translation, i made my own at the time i needed it. I'm just wondering why you react like this.
Sometimes there are coming people together which cant understand each other ;)

eva01_

03-16-2005, 04:06 PM

i wouldn't want someone regifting things

ok now who actually got that?

Dean C

03-16-2005, 04:49 PM

Sure, but here is nothing to sell, there are just "presents".

They're hardly presents. They are there for people to use, not to redistribute. It's piracy if you look at it that way.

Revan

03-16-2005, 06:43 PM

I might have misinterpreted some posts here, but what's the point in asking for permission if the decision will be argued till the end of time? :p

And as for my hack(s), they are all in one way or another using $vbphrase (although RPG isn't fully phrased yet), so when it *is* fully phrased, people are free to redistribute .xml files containing translation in every language they desire :)

eva01_

03-16-2005, 06:58 PM

Revan you do know that they are saying distribute your entire hack (in a different language) to other sites.

that is how i am taking it

redlabour

03-18-2005, 04:27 AM

redlabour - are you planning on taking everyone's modifications here, without asking them, then releasing it in german on your site?

Of course not.

We have a lot of possibilitys :

1. We ask the Coder of the Hack if we can translate and distribute it.

2. If that not works we ask only to translate and give him the Package to distribute it on vbulletin.org. We will make than a german Supportthread at vbhacks-germany.de of course.

3. In cases of GPL licensed Hacks there is no need to ask.

@Zachery - i think you are really misunderstanding the GPL. Please read it again.
Any modification and Redistribution of any Software that is based on GPL licensed Projects must be licensed under the GPL too ! ;)

@all - i think this Discussion here is basing on a complete misunderstanding of our Project :

1. We are nothing else as vbulletin.org - the only thing is - we are supporting in German and Distributing in German for the largest vBulletin Community and we are independent from vBulletin-Germany (for the Beginning !).

2. We don?t want to get your Hacks under our Names. We provide you (!) with the Service to get more Users to your (!) Hacks. Of course we are allways linking to your Site or your Original vbulletin.org Thread.

3. We are not releasing any Hacks we are not allowed to by the Coder !(Exception - GPL or any other License that is allowing it - but of course in anyway the Coder will be informed so that he can link to the German Support in his Hackthreads.).

4. Of course we are working together with vbulletin-germany and we are only starting to distributing Hacks form you or anybody else if we are connected to the License-Database. This will happen in the next few Weeks.

Akex

03-18-2005, 07:30 AM

Here is a part of GPL licence :

Article 2 :

These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it.

I thought Zachery work wasn't under GPL licence. After reading this here is my question :

Is the php files wrote by Zachery can be used without the files under GPL ? I don't think so ... It seems the hack is under GPL too.

Revan

03-18-2005, 08:12 AM

Revan you do know that they are saying distribute your entire hack (in a different language) to other sites.

that is how i am taking itI know, but I am saying that while I would not like to have the hack offered on another site, .xml translations of the phrases can be offered anywhere.

A general question about the site: If it will offer support for hacks, who will give it? I mean, a hacks site can't know as much about the hack as the author, and some support questions might be "can this be done with the current hack"-ish questions...

Dean C

03-18-2005, 11:26 AM

redlabour - Let me make it clear. By downloading any modifications here and posting them on your site without the authors written permission, you'll be breaking copyright laws.

Let me quote our footer:
All modifications are copyrighted to their respective owners.

That means that authors have complete copyrights of their code and any unauthorised redistribution of them is against the law and the modification owner is entitled to pursue legal action should they feel the need to.

Your arguement of the GPL license does not apply here. Zachery has intgerated vBulletin with a GPL package, using slight bits of their code. This means he still retains copyrights to it. Therefore you must get his permission to redistribute.

Thankyou for understanding :)

redlabour

03-18-2005, 12:05 PM

@Dean C - you didn?t read the GPL didn?t you ?

But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it.

Zachery?s Hack isn?t runable without the PJIRC Files in it - so it is under the GPL.
Zachery has broken the GPL and the Copyright of PJIRC if he does?nt release his Hack under the GPL too. That?s a Fact.

Sorry Zachery - but you are the only example here with a Hack under the GPL. It?s nothing personal. But i think it is important to get clearness in this Thread ..

And @Dean C you didn?t read my complete Postings :

1. We ask the Coder of the Hack if we can translate and distribute it.

2. If that not works we ask only to translate and give him the Package to distribute it on vbulletin.org. We will make than a german Supportthread at vbhacks-germany.de of course.

I know, but I am saying that while I would not like to have the hack offered on another site,

@Revan - is this what you wan?t to tell the german Users that are interested into your Hack but can?t speak english ? Think about it ..... we are not offering. We are providing Service for you (Translating and Marketing in another Language and in another Country) and Service for german Users.
Where is the Problem for you ???

Akex

03-18-2005, 02:26 PM

The copyright of this site doesn't apply to hacks which are under GPL.

As redlabour said (and me just before) without PJIRC vbxirc is useless, and must be under GPL licence. Nothing to argue, just read the licence, it's obvious. Then redlabour can distribute the translation only on vbulletin.org by courtesy, but he doesn't have to...

Dean C

03-18-2005, 02:28 PM

Without vBulletin, vbxirc is useless, therefore you cannot redistribute it based on the GPL license...

Akex

03-18-2005, 02:56 PM

Not the good way. You should say without vbxirc vbulletin is useless (we know it's not the case ;)) and vbulletin would be under GPL licence (just a joke ...).

redlabour

03-18-2005, 03:02 PM

@Dean C ... Hmmm...without OpenOffice my Windows is useless. So OpenOffice has to be under a M$ Licencse ?? :D

Sorry, but the last Thing you wrote was absolutely -> :ninja: ! ;) :D

amykhar

03-18-2005, 03:03 PM

I voted that I don't want my hacks translated and reposted. Why? Because if something is released under my name, I want to control the quality of it.

Amy

eva01_

03-18-2005, 03:28 PM

first let me say i don't get the openoffice bit :/ and that windows sucks

You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:

a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of this License.

c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively when run, you must cause it, when started running for such interactive use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an announcement including an appropriate copyright notice and a notice that there is no warranty (or else, saying that you provide a warranty) and that users may redistribute the program under these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy of this License. (Exception: if the Program itself is interactive but does not normally print such an announcement, your work based on the Program is not required to print an announcement.)

These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works. But when you distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it.

Thus, it is not the intent of this section to claim rights or contest your rights to work written entirely by you; rather, the intent is to exercise the right to control the distribution of derivative or collective works based on the Program.

In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this License.
that is where whatever his name got the part he quote from the GPL

Deaths

03-18-2005, 04:04 PM

@Dean C ... Hmmm...without OpenOffice my Windows is useless. So OpenOffice has to be under a M$ Licencse ?? :D

Sorry, but the last Thing you wrote was absolutely -> :ninja: ! ;) :D
That should be the otherway around I guess ^^

Revan

03-18-2005, 08:26 PM

@Revan - is this what you wan?t to tell the german Users that are interested into your Hack but can?t speak english ? Think about it ..... we are not offering. We are providing Service for you (Translating and Marketing in another Language and in another Country) and Service for german Users.
Where is the Problem for you ???And similar I ask, what is the problem with just releasing .xml files and tell the users how to download/install the hack?
The whole point of making a hack $vbphrase'd is to be able to provide support for additional languages - and this is what I have been stating I am all for, all along.
What I am against is the taking of the php files, and reposted (although under 100% credit to me) at another site in a language I can only somewhat hold my own in.
Is this difficult to understand? Is this not the entire point of creating .xml files, why the invention of the Phrase system itself?
If you download vBulletin in German, apart from possibly the comments, the .php files changed bugger all. The .xml files changed, and the Phrase language changed. Why would you want to redistribute .php files, when there are those of us who (slowly, but eventually) will make their entire hack fully phrased, and easy to translate?

Paul M

03-18-2005, 08:46 PM

If you wish to contact me and seek permission for any of my hacks then I see no reason I would not be happy to allow translation of them via option 2.

2. If that not works we ask only to translate and give him the Package to distribute it on vbulletin.org. We will make than a german Supportthread at vbhacks-germany.de of course.
However, don't bother in the next 7 days as I'm not going to be around. ;)

redlabour

03-18-2005, 09:50 PM

Thanks Paul M ! ;)

@amykhar - Sure - quality of Support is a good argument.

But did you know that we will have members of the Official vbulletin-germany Crew on Board (at this Time 2).

Did you think about - maybe we canno?t give all answers that you can give for your Hack but we can translate answers of you for our german Users too ?

It is our highest Interest to give Quality to our Users - in any other Way we wouldnt have Users.

Hope you change your Vote ! ;) Think about it ....

nullified

03-18-2005, 10:19 PM

Let me get things straight here:

First of all, I'm not really going to kick into the GPL discussion above, it's just a simple question wether or not he uses parts of GPL-Software and relies on them as integral parts of his project - I haven't looked at the script, so I'm not able to tell, but if he does, GPL is necessary and redistribution (with intact copyright) is possible without explicit written consent from him - but that's not a basis for negotiations, that's just stupid swashbuckling.

Secondly, I'd like to say something regarding vBhacks-germany.com.

I personally would support the idea as a lot of native german speakers do not speak English very well and a concept like the one which is intended here, could well work out.
I don't really see why people are so fussy about it, I mean, I'm a programmer myself, I've been victimized by pirates who stole my software and I've been victimized by people who translated my software without my knowledge (non-gpl software), yet, I can't see why you're fussy about hacks which are meant to just help the community (especially since all copyrights will be kept intact).

What good is it if a well worthy market (Germany) is unable to use your scripts because they are unable to understand your scripts?

Think about it.

Deaths

03-19-2005, 05:12 AM

That's a very good aruement nullified, but I find Revan's better.

Phrasing a hack takes a lot of time, way more than it would take to simply not phrase the hack.

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 10:45 AM

As redlabour mentioned before, we will have members from the official vb-germany.com team in the vbhacks-germany.de team.

Also Scott Molinari, publisher of Adduco Digital e.K. and official reseller from Jelsoft Enterprises Limited in Germany, told us (http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100643&postcount=119) that integration into the official licence validation system should not be a problem (when vbhacks-germany runs well), so don't worry about unlicensed people getting hacks and support for vB.

Support will only be given to licensed people.

What I can't understand: Why do some of the hack authors here in the thread make such "trouble" when we will translate their hacks into German an d "re-releasing" them on vbhacks-germany.de to support non-english-speaking licenceholders?

YOU, as author, will be named as author of YOUR hack.
YOU, as author, will get all the credits for YOUR hack.

vb-hacks-germany will only translate your hacks, no changes are made to the technical source codes.

Only aim of our intention with vbhacks-germany:
Supporting non-english-speaking licenseholders with "language-support" so that the vb-community may become bigger and bigger (especially with people think of buying another bbs because of missing german-hack-support).

Please have a look at the poll in this (http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16286) thread. More than 62 % voted FOR the project vbhacks-germany with german hack support. More than 24% of the voters will have a look at the new hack-support project. Only 13 % voted against the project.

Also look at the poll herein the thread: Over 72 % voted that we should translate their hacks.

I think that this shows necessity of starting a german speaking hack support.

Also think of Germany beeing the second largest area selling vBs (as nullfield just mentioned above)!

Deaths

03-19-2005, 10:55 AM

If vbhacks-germany.com will become an official Jelsoft sister company, I doubt anyone will have a problem with releasing their hacks there.

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 11:05 AM

We only want to start a german speaking hack support project like vb.org. Nothing more, nothing less.

Dean C

03-19-2005, 11:19 AM

That's fine Hellraider, but just translate the phrases into an XML file, don't go taking all our code and redistributing it :) I can't see anyone with having a problem with providing just XML files and a link to download the modification from vB.org!

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 12:33 PM

I think you didn't get the point ;)

Non-english-speaking, german license-owners won't come to vb.org (linked or not) cause this forum is based on english. All support is done in english.

We did have some threads on vbulletin-germany.com where non-english-speaking users were told (with a link) to download a hack on vb.org and they told us that they can't manage with the english forum.

Why do you think there is vb-germany.com? Right, cause there are many german useres out there so the conclusion is to start a german-speaking-hack-support-forum like vbhacks-germany.

Did you see any german support thread here on vb.org or do you think english speaking users on vb.org accept support threads only in german?

I don't think so ;)

Think of it . . .

Dean C

03-19-2005, 12:42 PM

Perhaps your not seeing my point. They haven't got to come here for support, just to download the modifications. Offer any support you like at your site, providing my modification is not posted as an attachment on your site and is only downloadable from here :)

sabret00the

03-19-2005, 01:28 PM

That's fine Hellraider, but just translate the phrases into an XML file, don't go taking all our code and redistributing it I can't see anyone with having a problem with providing just XML files and a link to download the modification from vB.org!

Perhaps your not seeing my point. They haven't got to come here for support, just to download the modifications. Offer any support you like at your site, providing my modification is not posted as an attachment on your site and is only downloadable from here
these two posts basically sum up my attitude regarding the matter.

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 01:32 PM

This is a question of fairness and ethics ;) (Now it is getting deeper . . . ;))

Linking directly to files on other's webspace is also known as traffic theft. I don't think that this is what vb.org wants us to do. vbhacks-germany don't want to "work" against vb.org. We want to work WITH vb.org and FOR the (especially non english-speaking part of the) german community.

If linking directly to files within the vb.org webspace is OK for the vb.org team then we will think of it. But there has to be a word from the vb.org team itself about the direct linking.

Normally you link to a thread with a file to download (to give credits to the hack author) and not directly to a file. And this is (the first point I mentioned ;)) what we don't want to force our non-english-speaking users to: Reading a thread they don't understand.

Dean C

03-19-2005, 01:45 PM

There's no harm linking to a file at all, because only licensed users can download them.

Deaths

03-19-2005, 01:50 PM

I think that's the part which the coder doesn't like.

A direct link to the file would mean that a lot of people will just download it without clicking install!

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 02:29 PM

There's no harm linking to a file at all, because only licensed users can download them.
That doesn't count for vb.org or against vbhacks-germany ;)
We also give support only to licensed users which are validated through the official licence validation (see above).

A direct link to the file would mean that a lot of people will just download it without clicking install!
Where is the difference between vb.org? Here you can also download a hack without having to click on "Install" ;)
Also no point for vb.org or against vbhacks-germany.

eva01_

03-19-2005, 02:40 PM

i believe they can download it here and translated there still.

but still my thoughts on support, you cannot support a hack nearly well enough as the creator can, so what happens if one of your members comes into trouble and you can't help them and the creator doesn't know german?

are you just going to be the middle man?

i think you will be doing A LOT of that, and you will be sick and tired of it within a month.

Zachery

03-19-2005, 03:30 PM

Hellraider,

The problem is in the past, alot of other people (I won't be specific here) have stolen code and repulished it at their own on varius vBulletin fan sites.

This has done nothing but put a bad taste in our mouth so far.

And it seems to me that you are burning a path to your goal at the moment without stoping to care who that fire might hit.

Yes, we might be stuborn but it comes from being burned a few too many times before.

Deaths

03-19-2005, 03:47 PM

That doesn't count for vb.org or against vbhacks-germany ;)
We also give support only to licensed users which are validated through the official licence validation (see above).

Where is the difference between vb.org? Here you can also download a hack without having to click on "Install" ;)
Also no point for vb.org or against vbhacks-germany.
If you provide a direct link to the file, 9 out of 10 users downloading the file wouldn't even know of the existance of the install button ;).

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 03:53 PM

but still my thoughts on support, you cannot support a hack nearly well enough as the creator can, so what happens if one of your members comes into trouble and you can't help them and the creator doesn't know german?
Supporting english hacks without the author is still done @ vb-germany.com and this is done nearly perfect (especially Mystics has to be named here) with no open questions. I don't see a problem with that point.

But vbulletin.com (like vb-germany.com) does not give offical hack-support, and so vb.org had been started as a platform to release and support (english) hacks.

So we try to start a german hack-support-community for the (only) german speaking part of the world . . .

@eva01_:
If a hack isn't supported by the author: Do you think this hack is installed by users or users are interested at an unsupported hack? When the hack runs fine there will be no problem (since new vB versions are running ;)) Maybe in the first time this is OK, but when there are troubles (and there are nearly everytime troubles, because no installation of vB looks like the other; why do you think there are so many support threads here on vb.org where users getting into trouble with hacks?) with the hack and the author can't or woun't support his own hacks. I don't think that users are interested in new hacks from this author in the future.

vbhacks-germany is building a bridge (as you mentioned) between an (only english or not german speaking) author and the (only) german speaking part of the world.

Main advantages for the author:

- more popularity
- more credits

eva01_

03-19-2005, 04:03 PM

maybe then as you want to build a bridge.

the best way to start building the bridge. is not to create an entirely new website, but to ask Xenon to create a German support forum on vbulletin.org.

;)

i think we have come to a revelation here

<< all thanks to my genius bwahaha

Dean C

03-19-2005, 04:19 PM

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 04:20 PM

The problem is in the past, alot of other people (I won't be specific here) have stolen code and repulished it at their own on varius vBulletin fan sites.
Ah, and so vb.org is the only place where this never happens (looking at the gloriole on vb.org community)? Where do you think all the repulished hacks on the net are coming from when vb.org is the only place to get the hacks? *wondering*
In the past there were no cars, no TVs and no computers. People are hunting with bows in the woods :mad: What is this comparison about?

And it seems to me that you are burning a path to your goal at the moment without stoping to care who that fire might hit.
I (for myself) will not translate and a hack if the author doesn't want me to. See also my posting (http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100715&postcount=144) @ vb-germany. There are a lot of discussions on vb-germany in this (http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16286) thread where "problems" that some of you mentioned are actually discussed.

If you provide a direct link to the file, 9 out of 10 users downloading the file wouldn't even know of the existance of the install button
Where did you get this quota from? ;)
Do you think the quota is higher here on vb.org? Maybe 5/10 but who knows? Who tells you that all users clicking on "Install" really installed the hack? Where can I click on "Uninstall" when I uninstalled a hack? Who prevents users not having installed the hack on clicking the Install button? . . .
The Install-button is a nice feature, nothing more, nothing less. You can make no solid conclusions out of a Install-quota.

I think the popularity of a hack is count on posts in support threads and not by clicking on an "Install" button.

the best way to start building the bridge. is not to create an entirely new website, but to ask Xenon to create a German support forum on vbulletin.org.
Xenon has still mentioned this point before: http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61944&postcount=8
He mentioned it within the vb.org team but Chen and Erwin didn't want to have such a german part in vb.org. See here (http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62046&postcount=21).
So there has to be an new website, cause vb.org is not supporting a german part under vb.org. He also mentioned that he will support such a german hack support forum, when it is offically supported.

eva01_

03-19-2005, 04:22 PM

The problem with that is moderation...

german moderators, can't be that hard to find them, since there is an official german vb site

I think the popularity of a hack is count on posts in support threads and not by clicking on an "Install" button.
no that shows how many bugs there are sometimes

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 04:32 PM

no that shows how many bugs there are sometimes

A support thread shows the popularity of a hack more than an "Install" button quota where everybody can click on but do not have to click on when using a hack.

And you think that (only) german-speaking users have no rights on support by other users cause the author can't speak german? The author can't or do not want to support only-german-speaking users so he should be thankful that other users supportting his hack. You said for yourself that there are sometimes many bugs within the hacks.

Deaths

03-19-2005, 04:35 PM

I think the popularity of a hack is count on posts in support threads and not by clicking on an "Install" button.
No, that shows the following;
The age of the thread; the older the thread, the more replies
The bugs in the hack; If the hack is one big bughole, loads of people are going to reply to say so.

The number of installs shows if a hack is liked or not. If I like a hack, and think its a good one, I click install, even though I might not use it, my click might just get that hack into the HOTM.

The install button now isn't that much of a measure, but when you would just provide direct links to the downloads, 3/4th of the German speaking community wouldn't know of the install button's existance, so they won't click it.

If that happens, you might aswell just remove the install button, as there will be way more actuall installations rather than install clicks.

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 04:41 PM

eva01_

03-19-2005, 04:42 PM

A support thread shows the popularity of a hack more than an "Install" button quota where everybody can click on but do not have to click on when using a hack.

And you think that (only) german-speaking users have no rights on support by other users cause the author can't speak german? The author can't or do not want to support only-german-speaking users so he should be thankful that other users supportting his hack. You said for yourself that there are sometimes many bugs within the hacks.

i have also seen posts in a hack thread of

"this is the worst hack ever created"

so that also shows the popularity?????

EDIT: Hellraider did you ask Xenon or Erwin (i forget which one owns the site) if they would create a german support forum?

Deaths

03-19-2005, 04:57 PM

So tell me other possibilities to support non-english-speaking users when vb.org did not want to build a german forum within vb.org and we are not pleased to start a new german speaking support forum.

Linking to an english forum is no acceptable conclusion for non-english-speaking users.
What I would suggest is the following:

Code, or let a hack be coded which does this:
It combines the link to the file and the link to install in 1 link.
In other words, when the member downloads the program, he automaticly "clicks" install.

And I say again, if vbhacks-germany will really become an official Jelsoft sister company, a lot of people would allow their hacks to be released there.

@eva01_ Yes, he asked Xenon, he liked it, but Erwin didn't.

Revan

03-19-2005, 04:57 PM

That's a very good aruement nullified, but I find Revan's better.

Phrasing a hack takes a lot of time, way more than it would take to simply not phrase the hack.Tell me about it, phrasing (even the partial one I do now) is a pain :p
But I am still going to get the entire hack fully phrased, even if it is the last thing I do! :)

No, that shows the following;
The age of the thread; the older the thread, the more replies
The bugs in the hack; If the hack is one big bughole, loads of people are going to reply to say so.

The number of installs shows if a hack is liked or not. If I like a hack, and think its a good one, I click install, even though I might not use it, my click might just get that hack into the HOTM.

The install button now isn't that much of a measure, but when you would just provide direct links to the downloads, 3/4th of the German speaking community wouldn't know of the install button's existance, so they won't click it.

If that happens, you might aswell just remove the install button, as there will be way more actuall installations rather than install clicks.Noone seems to have brought it to attention that it is fully possible to hijack the install button.
I myself have done this in my RPG installer file, and they could do it for vbhacks-germany.de

Not to mention the possibility of manually recreating the install function, Im sure Xenon would not be a stubborn bastard if an official Jelsoft site in his mother tongue asked if they could have his Install button hack ;)

EDIT: As a guy who wants tons of install clicks for his hack, I like this suggestion.
The issue, however, would be these:
a) Databases. Im pretty sure it doesn't store hack installs flatfile. If the members no dot speak english, Im sure they haven't registered here at vBorg
b) Update Emails. They would recieve lots of English update emails...

Deaths

03-19-2005, 05:01 PM

Noone seems to have brought it to attention that it is fully possible to hijack the install button.
I did, in my last post :p.

Not to mention the possibility of manually recreating the install function
I'm creating one right now. It won't be a public release, but it's not that hard.

I don't like the idea of vbhacks-germany having their own install system, as its kinda useless for the coders, as they probably never even visit vbhacks-germany.

EDIT:
EDIT: As a guy who wants tons of install clicks for his hack, I like this suggestion.
The issue, however, would be these:
a) Databases. Im pretty sure it doesn't store hack installs flatfile. If the members no dot speak english, Im sure they haven't registered here at vBorg
b) Update Emails. They would recieve lots of English update emails...
Very true, those problems exist.
But, I guess if vbh-g will become a sister company, a solution can easily be found.

Revan

03-19-2005, 05:11 PM

I did, in my last post :p.Meh, you lucked out by like 5 secs before my statement would have been valid. Sneaky bastard ;)

I'm creating one right now. It won't be a public release, but it's not that hard.Unless they are running a pirate board, such a hack don't have all that many uses to the general public (that I can think of) ;)

I don't like the idea of vbhacks-germany having their own install system, as its kinda useless for the coders, as they probably never even visit vbhacks-germany.True. I would possibly visit my thread just to check the install count, but it looks much better if it is merged with this one :)

Very true, those problems exist.
But, I guess if vbh-g will become a sister company, a solution can easily be found.I already have a couple of suggestions:

Allow remote connection to the SQL, and create a seperate mysql_connect() for the install click file on .de
if that is too big of a security hole, create a new DB, have a seperate mysql_connect() to this DB, then have a cronjob here at .org that, every 24h or so, fetches all the install clicks from the new db, and merges it with this one.

I believe the update email issue will solve itself if it only merges the COUNT, not the actual USERNAMES from .de

There may of course exist a hella easier way of doing it. but meh. I just like to post here, ok!? So sue me! :p

Deaths

03-19-2005, 05:24 PM

Meh, you lucked out by like 5 secs before my statement would have been valid. Sneaky bastard ;)

Heh, I'm smooth :p.

Unless they are running a pirate board, such a hack don't have all that many uses to the general public (that I can think of) ;)

You just want my hack released don't you :ninja:

True. I would possibly visit my thread just to check the install count, but it looks much better if it is merged with this one :)
I would surely check it, heh.
It would look a lot better + it helps in HotM ;)

There may of course exist a hella easier way of doing it. but meh. I just like to post here, ok!? So sue me! :p
You install and post horny bastard! PERVERT!

Heh. :D

redlabour

03-19-2005, 05:49 PM

Unless they are running a pirate board, such a hack don't have all that many uses to the general public (that I can think of) ;)

Who is running a "Pirate Board" ???? :ninja: :surprised:

Hellraider

03-19-2005, 06:46 PM

i have also seen posts in a hack thread of

"this is the worst hack ever created"

so that also shows the popularity?????
Yes, exactly, because this user has once installed the hack. If he likes the hack or not isn't the point.

Hellraider did you ask Xenon or Erwin (i forget which one owns the site) if they would create a german support forum?
I did not ask Xenon about this. He told this in the above mentioned thread that he would speak to Chen and Erwin.

a) Databases. Im pretty sure it doesn't store hack installs flatfile. If the members no dot speak english, Im sure they haven't registered here at vBorg
b) Update Emails. They would recieve lots of English update emails...
THX Revan. Other good points "against" linking to vb.org ;)

Very true, those problems exist.
Thanks for your agreement Deaths ;)

@all: This thread has been started to get tips on running a german speaking hack support forum AND NOT on getting an install button included within vbhacks-germany ;)

Revan

03-19-2005, 08:35 PM

Who is running a "Pirate Board" ???? :ninja: :surprised:Are you the "general public"????

THX Revan. Other good points "against" linking to vb.org ;)Erm hm. If you think that my recongnition of the problems with getting the install function to count on vBorg was an argument for not linking to vBorg, then... meh I will keep my comments to myself... (they would probably be censored anyways)

Akex

03-19-2005, 10:02 PM

And it seems to me that you are burning a path to your goal at the moment without stoping to care who that fire might hit.

I agree with Zachery.

IMO, it's a good idea to translate hacks for customers who don't understand english, but support isn't that easy when you are not the coder of the hack.

On vbulletin-fr (just an example, don't want to discuss about our site) we publish translated hacks (with permission of course) and I noticed that it's a bit difficult to help people (especially when there are only two coders in the team). Of course we translate hacks which seem to be bugs-free but it's not always the case. I'm not the author of this site, but I think I will remove in the future many hacks in order to be more efficient

@Hellraider.

Maybe you should ask german coder first and BTW create a german vb hack community which wouldn't be dependant of vb.org. There are many german coders (more than french I suppose, they are too lazy), ask them :)

Deaths

03-20-2005, 07:06 AM

I think enough has been said, and we will just need to wait a while to see if vbhacks-germany will indeed become a Jelsoft sister company.

You guys may translate my /me, /you, /meid, /youid hack, and my BBcode for registered members only hack.

Boofo

03-20-2005, 08:59 AM

I voted that I don't want my hacks translated and reposted. Why? Because if something is released under my name, I want to control the quality of it.

Amy

Exactly my feelings, too, Amy. ;)

Marco van Herwaarden

03-20-2005, 01:37 PM

Exactly my feelings, too, Amy. ;)Well actually this poll makes me laugh (sorry no offense).

First of all Amykhar say he voted not to have is hacks be translated, but the poster seem so confident about himself, he didn't even give this option. It is either now, or later. Never isn't an option.

Been following this thread and tried to keep my comment, but now i am posting anyway. ;)

The arguments given to why this step is needed, don't make to much sense to me, and is making the German people (falsly i think) look like uneducated. The Germans are getting a good education i think and all should be able to understand english and write it a bit. This is a community where people from all over the world are participating, for most of them English is not their first (or even second) language, and a lot of countries have unfortunatly much worse educational systems then germany. I see here people strugling and putting a lot of effort in trying to write a post in somehow understandable english. No matter of it is full of gramatic errors (like 99% of my posts :D) or spelling errors, i can have nothing but respect for these people trying, and i will try to answer them showing that respect, if needed answering twice or even more.

If you are someone serious working on running a webpage, a board on any other computer related product, you simply can't get by without some basic knowledge of english.

If you want to translate phrases in any of my hacks, go ahead and post the result here. Posting my hacks on other sites: no. And like mentioned before, real support can only be given by the coder himself.

Hmm think i better stop again, could go on too long about this. :D

Akex

03-20-2005, 04:20 PM

If you are someone serious working on running a webpage, a board on any other computer related product, you simply can't get by without some basic knowledge of english.

It should be that way, but unfortunately I often see the contrary :(. Moreover, some coders sometimes write lots of abbreviations (and slang also) in their posts -> hard to understand if you only know english basis (for instance : BTW, IMO aso ...)

Marco van Herwaarden

03-20-2005, 04:32 PM

If you don't understand something, all you got to do is ask. I think most coders (and other members) are willing to explain or to rephrase if someone don't understand.

AlexanderT

03-20-2005, 11:36 PM

The most interesting part about this dicussion is whether some vB hacks fall under GPL or not. I just downloaded vbXirc and had a quick look at the sources. Look at this:
vBXirc 2.5.2 # ||
----------------------------------------------------------------
A Geeky Designs Production
Version 2.5.2 # ||
PHP Code by: Zachery # ||
Templates by: Zachery
This may not be redistributated without Geeky Designs Consent
Copyright 2003 - 2004 Geeky Designs
Not only does Zachery fail to mention the original copyright of PIRC, but he is in fact violating the original copyright. GPL clearly contains "constraints against constraints." Section two of the GPL allows for modifications and distribution of a GPL-licensed work if the licensee causes any work to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of the GPL. More so, if the licensee includes any GPL code in another program, the entire program becomes subject to the terms of the GPL. Violation of these restrictions may subject the offender to civil and criminal penalties for copyright infringement.

I am sure Zachery is not the only "criminal" here infringing copyrights. Moderators of this community should keep a closer eye on these important issues.

Zachery

03-21-2005, 01:51 AM

The most interesting part about this dicussion is whether some vB hacks fall under GPL or not. I just downloaded vbXirc and had a quick look at the sources. Look at this:

Not only does Zachery fail to mention the original copyright of PIRC, but he is in fact violating the original copyright. GPL clearly contains "constraints against constraints." Section two of the GPL allows for modifications and distribution of a GPL-licensed work if the licensee causes any work to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of the GPL. More so, if the licensee includes any GPL code in another program, the entire program becomes subject to the terms of the GPL. Violation of these restrictions may subject the offender to civil and criminal penalties for copyright infringement.

I am sure Zachery is not the only "criminal" here infringing copyrights. Moderators of this community should keep a closer eye on these important issues.
Did you look at the readme file?

the php code, and the templates ARE in fact my work.

the java applcation in fact, has NEVER been modified, and ITS copyrights INSIDE OF THE PROGRAM, remain intact.

vBXirc is designed to be modual, I can grab any java/flash based IRC program and toss it in there.

However, to end this argument, I will be removing vBXirc for vB2 and 3 and vBXWirc from the hacking community.

enjoy

eva01_

03-21-2005, 02:04 AM

hahahahahah i was going to suggest that too, to end the pissing match

AlexanderT

03-21-2005, 02:07 AM

Zachery, you are using PIRC code (have a look at /forums/chat in the zip file you supply) and your product derives from it. Smart move to remove it though, to avoid legal trouble.

Zachery

03-21-2005, 02:10 AM

Zachery, you are using PIRC code (have a look at /forums/chat in the zip file you supply) and your product derives from it. Smart move to remove it though, to avoid legal trouble.
The only pjirc code, was the pjirc application, and personally I am not a lawyer and try to stay out of legal matters, but after reading the GPL a few times, I personally do not see how it falls into that category.

vBXirc will be re-released with a new system in a few months time pending all legal issues.

KW802

03-21-2005, 02:22 AM

AlexanderT

03-21-2005, 08:14 AM

Dean C

03-21-2005, 10:24 AM

It's a tad ironic that at an idea meant to help the vB community is actually causing the community to split itself. What's worse is that even though it's obvious what affect this idea is having that the progenitors of it are totally ignoring those affects and, if anything, seem to be actually encouraging it. :ermm:

That's not really the issue at hand here IMO. The issue is not regarding the law, it's the way the conduct of the members of vbhacks-germany.de constructed their request. I'm sure if redlabour had kindly asked Zachery to take his modification and translate it, instead of insisting that he could take it, regardless of what Zachery thinks, then Zachery would have kindly asissted. The same applies to me, I just don't like the way people were insisting they could take the work :)

AlexanderT

03-21-2005, 10:44 AM

The issue is not regarding the law, it's the way the conduct of the members of vbhacks-germany.de constructed their request.
That it not entirely true. The original request of vbhacks-germany.de brought up a new issue which is how GPL copyright-protected open-source should be handled in the case of vBulletin hacks.

Akex

03-21-2005, 10:53 AM

That's not really the issue at hand here IMO. The issue is not regarding the law, it's the way the conduct of the members of vbhacks-germany.de constructed their request. I'm sure if redlabour had kindly asked Zachery to take his modification and translate it, instead of insisting that he could take it, regardless of what Zachery thinks, then Zachery would have kindly asissted. The same applies to me, I just don't like the way people were insisting they could take the work :)

Not true. Take a look at post #1 (question from redlabour) and post #2 answer of Zachery.

Dean C

03-21-2005, 02:55 PM

Not true. Take a look at post #1 (question from redlabour) and post #2 answer of Zachery.

Regardless, I'm talking about further on in the thread.

vau7

03-30-2005, 08:49 AM

It is online now.
Have a look here: http://www.vbhacks-germany.com

JohnBee

04-03-2005, 09:32 AM

Seriously... you'd think people were trying to steal the food from your mouth
when they are simply extending courtesy by expanding "free" work.

Some even used the terms piracy... thats pretty lame considering this kind
of resistance only ends up producing illegal distribution of hacks.

I don't see the problem with translating hacks to another language especially
if the intent is to help others benefit from them which retains the whole concept
of creating and distributing the code to begin with.

Some people need to lighten up and look beyond the keyboard once in awhile.
While having no problems using GPL code to embed in your scripts but when
someone asks to do something positive as a language translation people act
as though they are trying to steal there work.

Its clear throughout the thread that some could benefit from this.

AlexanderT

04-03-2005, 10:34 AM

John, you totally right. It is purely an ego thing, nothing really to waste time with.

Seriously... you'd think people were trying to steal the food from your mouth
when they are simply extending courtesy by expanding "free" work.

Some even used the terms piracy... thats pretty lame considering this kind
of resistance only ends up producing illegal distribution of hacks.

I don't see the problem with translating hacks to another language especially
if the intent is to help others benefit from them which retains the whole concept
of creating and distributing the code to begin with.

Some people need to lighten up and look beyond the keyboard once in awhile.
While having no problems using GPL code to embed in your scripts but when
someone asks to do something positive as a language translation people act
as though they are trying to steal there work.

Its clear throughout the thread that some could benefit from this.

Snyper

04-04-2005, 01:58 AM

I am disappointed from the development here.
I can the refusal here not understand and thus is vB nevertheless no some community...

MrZeropage

04-07-2005, 07:23 PM

Does anybody already notice that there is an official german vbulletin-site with support at www.vbulletin-germany.com which even has some small "vb3 hack forum" ?

Translation of hacks and even german support was given on the official vbulletin-site, and it is clear that this is a benefit to sell licenses in germany.

So that new vbhacks-germany.com board is nothing new at all, only a try to do this with more efford and effeciancy - what is wrong with that at all ?

This maybe even gets german people to do new, own hack, release them there, and I am sure then somebody will also translate such things into english and release it here.

So I think it is a good project - Jelsoft supports an official german vbulletin-site which even contains german hacks, so why not do a german hackboard ...

Get it working guys !!