Paid for mods from a non-coders POV

[RacerX]

I just finished reading the thread that was closed for abusiveness about Paid Hack/Mods. There was something I either missed or do not see in there and want to make a few comments of my own.

There was a lot of heated discussion about why paid for hacks should not be allowed at vbulletin.org. One thing that was cited was because everyone would want to charge.

I am not a coder and don't even know how to install hacks... I also don't plan on learning. I am pretty good at managing online communities but due to my real-world business I don't have time to do much else. Yes, I would like to learn but there are only so many hours in the day.

Here is where I am going with this... Both I and some of my close friends that have vB's have requested in the past to get hacks either ported or designed. Hell, we have even offered money to do it, and guess what... The response was PITIFUL! I don't know if everyone just got tired of creating custom hacks & or porting vb2 hacks but the results stink.

So, what do people like us do? We're not coders... We don't have the time to learn it... We have purchased vb and are willing to pay for services that others either DO NOT WANT TO DO or are INCAPABLE OF DOING. That is fair.. And I think that is where the rub is from this end of the road.

If the free hacks are no available, then I don't get why paid for hacks shouldn't be? Usually the paid hacks are more complex and time consuming and it is fair that someone gets money for their efforts.

Please don't take this as any type of flame post. I'm not mad... I'm just want everyone to see it from my point of view where paying for a hack is a heck of a lot better than not having one at all.

We've spent over $2,000 on custom work since January of this year. That is because the work we have had done is unique. Now, I can only imagine how much cheaper it would have been if the hacks were already available and being distributed widely. We wouldn't be the only one benefitting from a high-end custom banner advertising system through every forum and a host of other features.

I hope vB command will see that if you really want vB to continue being the powerhouse that most of us know and love, you will open the doors at least a little for an area where hackers will design really nice hacks for a reasonable price to those who want them BECAUSE the bottom line here is that most of us would rather pay than to never even have the option.

Thanks

[nexialys]

hey hey.. i can't agree more... ;)
(ok, i would have done these hacks you required btw.. lol)

hum... ok, i see here the point of a customer, this is cool/good... i hope this will be listened!

[RacerX]

I would like to add that if we didn't have to spend as much money having custom hacks designed specifically for us (which means we have to foot the bill of a good custom coder alone) we would then have more money to BUY more vBulletin licenses and implement new communities we have on the drawing board. Sure, we can now dupe some of the hack works, though there will still need to be new hacks created for niche areas.

This is only a guess, but I think that would go for other people as well. How many vb licenses does $2k buy? Or even $1,000? We have 4 communities on the drawing board but we can't afford to roll them all out.. Not with having to buy the vbulletin licenses, skin design AND completely custom hack work.

Honestly, I think it is a safe bet that there would be a lot of good coders putting in the hours for all sorts of really nice hacks, many that haven't even been thought up yet, if there was at least a little payback for them besides prestiege. Heck, $10.00 for a good hack (just a guess if it was being sold in bulk) would make the hacker happy and give us all options.

[MindTrix]

I think it is right NOT to have payed for hacks offered here because picture how people would feel seeing a hack released, going to get it and finding out there is a charge? People have payed for the bulletin board and expect everythign else to come free, because thats just how we are.

Yet there is nothing stopping you getting payed jobs done, theres forums here for it, people advertise that they will do private jobs in their sigs and everything so am i missing the point in this thread/argument/discussion?

[filburt1]

It is a matter of human nature. You want something, but you don't want to give up anything for it.

Personally, my opinion on the matter is that it is good for the community, although not necessarily in this implementation. Many people buy vBulletin directly due to features, no matter how big or small, that can be implemented through code modifications. This financially helps Jelsoft because more licenses are sold, product popularity increases, and the effect compounds.

To take it to the extreme, if the hacks were allowed here but an insertion fee or a commision of each sale (PayPal could be a processor and automatically deposit a cut to Jelsoft and direct the rest towards the modification author), Jelsoft would not only see an increase in license sales but a higher net profit per sale.

Finally, after paying $160 or even $85 for a product, many do not hesitate to pay less than $50 to add a major new feature to it such as a photo album, webmail, arcade, personal web hosting, whatever. I just don't see the logic in Jelsoft so steadfastly determined to block official channels of extending their product when it directly benefits them.

[Ghostsuit]

I think the point is what would be wrong with a forum that explicity says the hacks contained with in are charged for.

I personally totally agree with RacerX, I'm happy to pay someone to write a hack for me because it saves me time. People should not expect everything for free. I'm also confused why a paid hack can be discussed but the actual person creating the hack can't start one thread about it. :s

[nexialys]

50$ for major features... many clients of me have paid a lot more only to have exclusive tools, or simply a better support on features they wanted to be enhanced from the board... and they are happy because they had what they requested and more (i always give unlimited support on my job)...

and yes, Jelsoft would gain a lot if they permit to have commercial tools released here or there, because i've had many clients that bought vBulletin just because i was able to build them special tools... they would not have bought vB if i would not have done the job... even if they paid twice the price of vB for the jobs done...

and no, not everyone would have to face the price when asking for a tool... don't you know reverse auction ?!

someone ask for a job to be done, and the client select the best price offered in the lot of coders answering the auction. if i find a cool request that i can do for free, i will be happy to make it free and answer the auction with a free tool... the code would be released and i would be more popular because i release good tools that answer the requests...

that's the way to build a reputation... not only because of the count of releases, but also count of the GOOD releases... a tool like Trader Rating can become a real good way to deal with coders... any client/requester can read the trade rating of a coder and evaluate if the guy is a solid, or a cheap hacker...

--nexia

[Andreas]

Seems to be a good idea Ghostsuit and I appreciate this.
Quite often I see requests for hacks that are a bit compilcated, eg. that require a fair amount of time to be coded
As nobody catches up these requests, they re-appear as service requests.

Now if one could code a hack and release it here for a small fee eveyone could benefit:
The original requestor would have to pay less, others could also use it - and the hack author could earn more money.

[nexialys]

KirbyDE is right (Ghostsuit too) ... i would release more hacks here if i can advertise, and they would be mostly free because i can sell some/many... if i can't advertise, i have to sell them for a higher fee because i want to gain for the job done...

a good coder is always paid 50$/hour, so why not charge for that salary?... for a specific client, a request is different, as most of the reuqests i answer will never be asked from anyother user... but if a tool can be used for many, why not release it ?!... for free ?!... how would i pay the food for my childs ??? i code all day, and most of the time i do it for clients... if i release the tools for free, i will spare 15 hours/day of my time for nothing... this is my job, so i want to be paid, and the clients know it.

also... most of the commercial/non-free tools are bringing profits for the client... a banner system, a community journal or a global information feed... if you have banners on your site, we suppose it's not only to advertise your own site.. you make profits by adding banners... so when i built my sponsored/bannered forums system, i meant it for profits... so the guys are able to pay for it, because they will be paid back.

if you want to make a small modification on a display or function, i will never see someone requesting cash for the job because PHP is free itself... but building a complete tool require time and knowledge... and these two elements are payable in all jobs... so why complain ?! job is well done, we're happy and the client too!

[RacerX]

I think it is right NOT to have payed for hacks offered here because picture how people would feel seeing a hack released, going to get it and finding out there is a charge? People have payed for the bulletin board and expect everythign else to come free, because thats just how we are.

Yet there is nothing stopping you getting payed jobs done, theres forums here for it, people advertise that they will do private jobs in their sigs and everything so am i missing the point in this thread/argument/discussion?

You were willing to pay for a quality forum script but after that everyone should have to work to modify that for free? That doesn't sound fair to me for those that are not profiting from vBulletin amd are doing a lot of work.

I understand we all like things that are free but free only goes so far. Free often yields poor results. Free doesn't seem to be getting those of us the hacks we want and need to be successsful with our communities a lot of the time. Yes, there are a lot of forums that are plain vanilla and that is great, but there are others that want to create a fully customized community. No harm in that, is there? I don't mean for a second that all hacks should be paid for hacks... I would be happy to see some very large ones free as well, but I would also like to see the ones that are paid hacks put on a public list so we can all decide.

Actually, part of the point I am pushing is that coders not being allowed to sell hacks here does two things as far as I can see. 1) It deters more coders from creating highly custom hacks, and 2) people like myself don't know what is available, which in turn prevents more coders from doing the work because the people who would be willing to pay for them might not know they exist.

[RacerX]

To take it to the extreme, if the hacks were allowed here but an insertion fee or a commision of each sale (PayPal could be a processor and automatically deposit a cut to Jelsoft and direct the rest towards the modification author), Jelsoft would not only see an increase in license sales but a higher net profit per sale.

Finally, after paying $160 or even $85 for a product, many do not hesitate to pay less than $50 to add a major new feature to it such as a photo album, webmail, arcade, personal web hosting, whatever. I just don't see the logic in Jelsoft so steadfastly determined to block official channels of extending their product when it directly benefits them.

I think charging an insertion fee or even brokering the sale would be more than fair. I know some won't like the brokering idea but I also feel that jelsoft as well as everyone would benefit.

To deny these people in my mind is only going to slow vbulletin down. Heck, how many hacks have been incorportated later into vBulletin? No offense to the guru's designing vBulletin but a lot of benefit has come from coders creating hacks.. Wouldn't it just give them a better selection to work with in the future, or would this limit them? Not sure but thinking out loud.. Either way, I think having it available is better than not having it at all.

[Natch]

Nothing is preventing people from releasing paid for hacks - they just can't RELEASE them here - they can release a lite version which has basic features and then release somewhere else a paid for version with fuller features - this is fine ...

[RacerX]

Yes, but how do we know what they are offering and who they are? Knowing that is one of the barriers I would like to see overcome.

[MindTrix]

i guess i was right in my reply, i did miss understand the post. But blah maybe there should be a forum just for payed hacks, but we all know what will happen. There will be thousands of posts saying "What? I have to pay for this?" then there will be huge arguments etc.

You mention people paying for something to be added to make their forum unique, thats true, however im paying alot of money for someone to help me make a wanted hack, and i plan on releasing it for free here :p

[13th_Disciple]

I have done Java programming, Visual Basic, some C++ and little PL/SQL.. I have never made 50 dollars an hour.. That kind of arguement won't work.. While customized work is generally more expensive, try not to price yourself right out of most people's price range right from the get go..

and free often does work.. FreeBSD has worked for me relentlessly.. Nowhere near the same scale and it's comparing apples to oranges, but it is free.. There is a ton of opensource apps/projects that are as good as or better than their paid counterparts.. Does that mean they are bad? No, it means someone devotes time, energy, effort and their personal commitment to a project for the benefit of others.. I agree that sometimes there are things worth paying for, but sometimes, there aren't..

also, the arguement about "you paid for the forum script" is basically crap too.. A ton of the license holders are people with little to no money to spend on customized pieces of software.. Buying the script itself is a big deal.. I don't like spending the bread on it, personally.. But I was used to it, so I did..

I don't mind paid for hacks/mods/projects.. But I am just as open, if not more so, to open projects.. I prefer collaboration vs proprietary.. I realize that is not what a greater majority think, but at the same time, I have never run with the greater majority, either.. IMO, add your paid hacks to your sig, promote them on your site, and allow a bit of leeway on discussing the paid hacks here.. But don't release them here.

As I said, this is just my opinion, and it is like the proverbial a$$hole.. we all have one and most stink..

[Natch]

Well said 13th_D - bravo!

[Brad]

We used to allow people to post their services on vBt, only a few of the actual posting members ever made a thread in that forum, more often then not it was someone who never contributed to the community attempting to promote their service.

These people, imho take away to much from the contributing community, we are talking bandwidth and resources here. I agree with most everyone else, promote them on your site, link them in your sig, disscuss them all you want. Just don't take it as far as releasing modifications here cleints must pay for, if you are charging for a script I would asume you would'nt need to use vBulletin.org to support your users.

I forget whom brought up the point but, if you would release more hacks if you could promote your services why aren't you doing it now? IMHO the more code you release here for free, the more respected you become within this community, and asuming your code is clean im sure you could snag a few clients because of it.

Honestly if it where you would you approch someone you did'nt know or someone that has coded a few hacks you have tried yourself?

[RacerX]

I by NO means want to see free hack work end... We have what we have in vB now because of the work done by free coders yesterday... I definitely am against the idea of everyone charging or it going completely in that direction, and I can also understand the possible fear that everyone might want to end up charging for every little thing and that will be that...

Again, what I am talking about is either a directory or forum where paid coders can talk about things, advertise or whatnot. Just one small area, and I do think it is totally fair that if they are selling their work via vB.org or any other official vb site they should have to pay to advertise.

Once more, I ask you all this... Would you rather not have a hack at all or have the option of paying for one? That is the real question here for some of you. Because the bottom line is some of these hacks are never going to be created unless someone is paying for it.. I for one can't afford to pay $50.00/hr for 20 hours worth of coding very often.



I forget whom brought up the point but, if you would release more hacks if you could promote your services why aren't you doing it now? IMHO the more code you release here for free, the more respected you become within this community, and asuming your code is clean im sure you could snag a few clients because of it.



Brad,
Most people don't have the time to invest into designing the higher end hacks I am talking about. If you are a kid and have hours after school to burn, no rent or other bills, you got the time. If you are out on your own, you have limited time to spend on this type of thing. I know the guy that I contract has made a lot of free hacks around here... He is very well respected... It is also not reasonable to think that he can spend 20 hours on my project for free.

Again, don't take this as a move on free hacks... That's not it at all... BUT how many hacks have been created per request for no charge since vb3 has been released?? Not NEARLY as many and my friends have been asking for simple stuff like someone to port existing hacks... Heck, everyone wants a nice stats program like Bane's but has he even updated / ported it yet? How long have we been waiting? I bet if I wagged $50.00 in his face he or someone else would then do it. So, then we have the hack so many of us have been waiting for. BECAUSE I was willing to motivate someone to do it. Lets take it a bit further. Would that hack be worth $5.00 to you all rather than not having it at all? This would also be motivation to some that are otherwise NOT inclined to work any more..

So... one last time... Would you rather not have it at all or have the option to pay? Do you not see my point?

[Andreas]

Heck, everyone wants a nice stats program like Bane's but has he even updated / ported it yet? How long have we been waiting? I bet if I wagged $50.00 in his face he or someone else would then do it.
I ported vBStats to vB3 in last october. I asked Bane for permission to release it but he said "No, I will do this on my own".
As this is his hack I have to accept the decision and cannot release it :(

[Emmy2]

Interesting discussion....I'm not a coder either but I've installed many free hacks that have been released here as well as contracted out to have hacks made for a fee. It seems to me the release of free hacks is trickling down to less and less...and responses to requests for free modifications are pretty much non-existant. I have never had a reply to a request for a free modifiction, even what I think are relatively simple ones. Sometimes, you have to adjust to the changing market, not try and stem the tide or paddle against the current. What might have worked in the early days of vbulletin (lots of people contributing free hacks for prestige etc.) just doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

If there seems to be such an internal conflict about releasing paid hacks here what about a new site to sell hacks? vbulletinforhire.com or something like that :p (unless there's something like that already that I don't know about). In order to be allowed to 'advertise' your paid hacks you'd have to have first contributed some free hacks to the vbulletin.org community. There could be a rating system (like ebay) where coders could accumulate positive or negative reputations based on the quality of their work and timely delivery so that people looking for coders aren't blindly selecting people either and hoping for the best. Separating the two sites would also work for the vbulletin owner...if they go to vbulletin.org they know they can find free hacks...if they go to vbulletinforhire.com they know they will be paying for hacks, so no surprises. In a way it would just be pooling all the paid hacks into one place, instead of making users visit the individual websites of coders etc. Even cooler if it could be set up so that the hacks are posted just like here....here you have to have a vbulletin license to 'open' an attachment, on the paid hacks site you would have to make a payment before you could 'open' the hack attachment over there...this way you wouldn't have to go to the coder's site or have them send you the code...you can download it right from the paid hack site by 'paying' to open the attachment......okay, more ideas....all payments could actually go to the paid hack site which would divvy up the monies based on number of downloads per hack.....or here's another idea....what about a fee to join the site (annual membership) which gives you access to all the hacks on the site....then coders are paid based on the number of times their hacks are downloaded.

I dunno, just thinking out loud.

[nexialys]

Emmy2, you're right... ;)

btw, a vbulletinforhire.com will exist in no long, as soon as i finish to build the forum i plan for such a featured site... coders will be able to announce their capabilities like freelancers, and clients will be able to start reverse-auctions for coders to answer...

also, commercial integrations will be advertised, coders will have the place to display and release their commercial tools, and some other features will come in time.

reason for this site: vB guys are right with the troubles it may bring to have commercial or paid hacks on their community... but if it's independant, external to the free community, there is no trouble...

we will have commercial rules on the site, and there will be no flaming, no trashing and no kiddies... we already have some good coders interested to manage their forums, some companies interested to have a place to advertise their commercial non-free products... so this will answer the requests of such threads here... because it's not the first time we read about the subject, and there was not a single line for a solution yet, so i take the lead.

[sabret00the]

my personaly opinion is that it would force prices of paid work to be standardised due to the officiality of it, their would be more transparency and that's a good thing, the only way to do something like this without it affecting the amount and type of free hacks available would be to have a quota system, if you've released XX amount of hacks + XX posts, you can advertise your services/hacks/programs here. and then have the commision thing as well. i love free hacks but also don't mind reasonably priced add-on's as that promotes indivuality, like filburt said in another thread (on vb.com infact) people tend to use stuff just cos it's there, look at the arcade, how many forums have them, just cos they're there, not that they fit with the site (i ad-lib'd that heavily) so yeah, for exclusivity it's good but it's all down to implementation really :)

[nexialys]

your comparaison with the arcade is false sabre@...

the Arcade team is to release a PRO version that will not be free, just because the clients requests more features, and the more you ask from a coder, the more you face the fact that your tool will not be free anymore. PRO version of the Arcade will contain network play, more features, more stats, more enhancements, and this can't be counted as free because you require more.

when you go to a restaurant and ask for a hamburger, you pay for it... let's say 1$ for a basic hamburger... if you want the deluxe version, will you have it the same price just because you already have the bread and the slice of beef ?! no, you will pay double the price just to add more stuff in it... ask Mcdonalds, BurgerKings, and all the others... you ask for more, you pay for it, and each company will offer a different price because it's not a hardcoded rule... you pay depending on the taste you want.

there is no possibility of standardisation of the prices of code releases, because not all the codes are released by the same guy...

best example is photopost and albinator... same price, not the same features, and they offer two different ways to integrate with vB... why just one have the right to be advertised here ?! Albinator have a better integration of the script, as you can create forums that will be albums... photopost don't... it's 100% external even with a minimum of integration...

the guy that created http://www.dlman.com/, the only script that permit to have a paypalized downloader linked to vB permissions system... they have a basic version, and a pro with a shopping-cart integrated... they can't release it even with a load of requests regarding such features here... and nobody knows about the script just because commercial hacks are not permited here... but how many guys here would be happy to hear from this !!!

the question is not only regarding coders that do free or non free job, but for commercial tools that would give some real enhancements to the system


most of the comments i've read about the subjects are made from guys that have fan sites, no real incomes from their community, no real possibility to pay for the stuff... it's correct... but you forget commercial sites, big companies that buy vB and have a lot of requests for specialised tools... if they would be informed of these commercial hacks, they would tend to buy more vB licenses because the vB tool would answer more of their requests... many times i see guys not buying vB because it have a lack of integration with their actual community... they need more tools, more professional content... these tools exists in many ways, but are not advertised because is not permitted to do so...

Jelsfot would gain by advertising commercial tools... like Apple and Microsoft that advertise for external companies that have built extensions to their localised systems... just think of all the new iPod technology... more than 45 commercial products were released in the last 3 months because iPod software is free and companies can advertise by offering non-free softwares that answer clients requests... iPod software is free(not the walkman though), and more, the system is OS-X based and Apple gained a lot of clients... like BMW and Porsche that have now an built-in integration of the tool in their cars... just because rich guys requested it, and now we have more mostly-free tools for it because it's permitted to advertise commercial tools for it.

if i can release my non-free stuff here, i will be pleased to release also the 100+ hacks i've built in the last 4 months... most of them are to be free because they are minimal, but useful... but i will not if i can't make some cash to pay back the job done.. i prefer to give these hacks to clients that pay for my work... as the Jelsoft guys... they release free hacks once the software is sold, but remember that most of the guys here also have non-free codes released somewhere...

-- i suggest to let the clients decide by themselves... they can make their own oppinion... we're not with Uncle Sam here.

[sabret00the]

your comparaison with the arcade is false sabre@...

the Arcade team is to release a PRO version that will not be free, just because the clients requests more features, and the more you ask from a coder, the more you face the fact that your tool will not be free anymore. PRO version of the Arcade will contain network play, more features, more stats, more enhancements, and this can't be counted as free because you require more.but as i was saying, if it cost not everyone would have one (not a bad thing, but not a great thing either, depending on standpoint)

and someone could make a thread about dlman, just the site owner can't, i made a thread about two products the other day in the lounge.

[nexialys]

and someone could make a thread about dlman, just the site owner can't, i made a thread about two products the other day in the lounge.Yes, maybe in the Lounge, but not as a released hack... and i think it's the major point of the discussions here... where and when CAN we ...

[ethics]

Emmy2, you're right... ;)

btw, a vbulletinforhire.com will exist in no long, as soon as i finish to build the forum i plan for such a featured site... coders will be able to announce their capabilities like freelancers, and clients will be able to start reverse-auctions for coders to answer...

also, commercial integrations will be advertised, coders will have the place to display and release their commercial tools, and some other features will come in time.

reason for this site: vB guys are right with the troubles it may bring to have commercial or paid hacks on their community... but if it's independant, external to the free community, there is no trouble...

we will have commercial rules on the site, and there will be no flaming, no trashing and no kiddies... we already have some good coders interested to manage their forums, some companies interested to have a place to advertise their commercial non-free products... so this will answer the requests of such threads here... because it's not the first time we read about the subject, and there was not a single line for a solution yet, so i take the lead.

Sounds awesome, right before I read you post that I had thought about doing the same thing myself.

If you guys need any help setting up or managing the forums, just let me know. you can communcate with my most effectivly over email.

brett-hinkle@horizonsbeyond.com

Brett

[Princeton]

as much as I would like to get paid for hacks and advertise my services here at vbulletin ... I think it would be a bad idea to initiate something like this here.

vbulletin.org is popular 'cause of one reason--free hacks.
vbulletin.com has grown partly becuase of the popularity of vbulletin.org.

Adding any kind of "paid hack" services will just add to overhead.
Less quality free hacks will be available--they will be offered as paid hacks.

[Sidewindr]

Something to be mindfull of... If you pay for someone to do a hack for you then YOU own the Intellectual property of that coding/effort. The person who wrote it for you cannot on-sell or use it elsewhere unless specifically granted by the person/company paying for the custom work.

[Colin F]

Something to be mindfull of... If you pay for someone to do a hack for you then YOU own the Intellectual property of that coding/effort. The person who wrote it for you cannot on-sell or use it elsewhere unless specifically granted by the person/company paying for the custom work.
Well that depends on how you look at it.

As a coder I can also be payed for my time, and just lease him the right to use my modification...

[Sidewindr]

Yes but unless it is SPECIFICALLY noted anything you create on time that is paid for by someone is the property of the person who paid for the time.

[kira]

I'm not a lawyer, but I do a great deal of freelance work as both a web designer and writer. And as far as I know, Sidewindr, that's not a valid assumption. It depends entirely on the contract (which, presumably, you and your coder will have). Without a signed agreement specifying the job as work for hire and indicating that the final product will be owned by the client, there's no reason for a coder or her client to assume that ownership of the product (and exclusive rights for usage) is to be transfered over to the client.

I could be wrong, maybe it's different for coding and tech issues. But I find it hard to believe that anything as important as exclusivity and ownership would by default and without a contract be granted to a client rather than the creator.

[Dean C]

Unless you have a contract signed by both parties then you and the coder have no rights at all. (I think :p)

[Sidewindr]

Kira,

It is called Intellectual Property Law and if I were you I would get a lawyer to clarify the law for you. In Australia it is quite clear that if you are employed to do a job and what ever you create within the scope of that employment/contract belongs to the employer. I believe it is very similar in the USA, IP law is rooted in Copyright and Patent law.

eg..

http://www.utsystem.edu/ogc/intellectualproperty/ippol.htm

[Sidewindr]

I could be wrong, maybe it's different for coding and tech issues. But I find it hard to believe that anything as important as exclusivity and ownership would by default and without a contract be granted to a client rather than the creator.

That's what I have been saying .. the client not the coder owns the IP unless there is a contract stating otherwise. :)

[Colin F]

That's what I have been saying .. the client not the coder owns the IP unless there is a contract stating otherwise. :)
In Switzerland, that depends on the kind of contract you have (and yes, even if you don't have a signed contract, you do have a mutual agreement, which counts as a contract).