Where vB is going wrong [Archive]

Mark.B

01-21-2006, 02:00 PM

This post saddens me, but I've been tempted to post it for a long time. Now the time has come.

I love vB as a product, and there's no problem at the official support forum (vb.com) but over here things have gotten silly.

First of all, let me say I fully understand that people provide support of their own free will. It's not a slur on anyone like that, it's more a general observation.

Several years ago when I first came here there were plenty of people willing to assist and help people who may lack expertise. Such help was offered gladly and politely.

Lately though, things have changed for the worst. For example, look in the 'hack requests' forums and see the HUGE number of totally ignored requests, or ones responded to with a curt 'use the search button'.

Then go into some of the hack threads. You are lucky to get any response at all these days, and when you do, it's often 'read the thread' or 'read the rules' or 'learn to code before you ask'.

It is extremely unfriendly and off putting, and I have to say that other forum software now has much better hack support for the less experienced user.

Obviously this isn't universal but it's a growing trend. If this isn't to become an elitist community for experienced coders only, then people need to start being a bit more understanding of the fact that not everyone is an experienced php coder and not everyone has managed to read every single rule/sticky/announcement on here before posting.

In short, there's no need for people to be rude or 'off' with people for simply asking questions.

firstrebel

01-21-2006, 02:09 PM

I support Mark.B's comments with one exception. It has long been the unwritten rule with forums that if you wanted to find out something you did a search first as your question may have been already covered.

The trend now seems to be not to bother to read the thread but ask the question. This then increases the size of the thread and makes reading through it for info more difficult, as some threads here are over 20 pages.

Bob

nexialys

01-21-2006, 02:22 PM

/me click not-install

to me, the level of support comes with the level of ability for members to be independant and able to do things by themselves... i've seen a lot of these requests lately, made by the same guys, that are not able to do a simple search... we have to do the search for them and show them how to...

it's easier for them to complain that they have no answer for their somewhat strange requests sometimes too... when you require to rebuild half of vbulletin for your own needs and think you will have someone that will gladely do this for free in the minute, you are wrong... and we have seen that in the last days...

if you think that other softwares have better support for their hacks, remember something here: vb.org is not managed by vb.com, and is completely unsupported by the company... this is the opposite of all the other communities you know...

anyway, this is another complaint thread that will turn into a flaming ground soon... see ya!

Paul M

01-21-2006, 02:28 PM

I know what thread triggered this, and tbh, it's only the fact I don't have that particular hack installed that stopped me commenting when I read it - "Read the rules" was not a very helpful reply to a question.

Reeve of shinra

01-21-2006, 02:29 PM

Not that I agree or disagree, but its not exactly easy to find stuff around here now a days. Hopefully that will change when the "hack database" comes out.

vBintense

01-21-2006, 02:51 PM

I have to concur with the original thread. I have a few hacks I wanted to release but I am still a bit put off over the war about paid mods or not.

Three years ago this community was a community, if someone asked a redundant question it was either nicely pointed to the right thread (with a link) or help was given.

There is no reason for anyone to think they are so much better that they can have an animosity to another member who may be new and lost, perhaps what he is looking for has came up in search with 3000 results, so he sifts thru not understanding what is what.

As for those who think the new members need to learn to use the search option better or to become as expert as them over night, if it upsets you so badly why not just ignore the thread and not cause more aggravation in an already tense community.

Posts that flame or back handed comments are rapid here as of late, not like it was 3 years ago. People just seem to trash this community and not even think to just keep their mouse to another thread link.

Then you get the coders who still really care about the community and the original reason it was made (to share and to help) who work hard to try to help others, they support their hacks, and even try to bring out new. And from the already cut throat mentality to the newer people, they now come back and fester the threads with information of new hacks with turmoil.

Now while there are many good staff here who do very good job, or try to bring the threads back into the right track, they can not do it alone. It is up to the community to actually re-learn the caring and the reason why .org is even here. If this does not happen it will just spiral more.

Mark.B

01-21-2006, 02:53 PM

* nexialys click not-install

to me, the level of support comes with the level of ability for members to be independant and able to do things by themselves... i've seen a lot of these requests lately, made by the same guys, that are not able to do a simple search... we have to do the search for them and show them how to...

it's easier for them to complain that they have no answer for their somewhat strange requests sometimes too... when you require to rebuild half of vbulletin for your own needs and think you will have someone that will gladely do this for free in the minute, you are wrong... and we have seen that in the last days...

if you think that other softwares have better support for their hacks, remember something here: vb.org is not managed by vb.com, and is completely unsupported by the company... this is the opposite of all the other communities you know...

anyway, this is another complaint thread that will turn into a flaming ground soon... see ya!
That's certainly valid, and there's no harm in checking that people have tried searching first, but it's the WAY it's said, too often there's a sort of arrogance and superiority that comes over and that never used to be there.

I don't want to start flame wars, I am trying to be constructive. I don't dislike this site at all, it's still great, but it seems to be heading in a way that isn't pleasant, and that's the users rather than the moderators or admins.

I know what thread triggered this, and tbh, it's only the fact I don't have that particular hack installed that stopped me commenting when I read it - "Read the rules" was not a very helpful reply to a question.
Yes, you're right in that that is what finally triggered me to post this, but it's something that's been on my mind for a while. It has not happened to me so much because I rarely post for help, but I have seen it done so many times to others and I think 'that is not fair'.

I would like to say though that Paul M is a shining example of how it SHOULD be done, his hack support is incredible...efficient, polite and to the point. I have a couple of Paul's hacks installed.....way to go!

Marco van Herwaarden

01-21-2006, 03:20 PM

I am trying to be constructive.
Anyone who likes it should be tied down and have pins inserted into their feet.
(From: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?p=851493#post851493)

But i do agree to some point. And this already starts by 10 people 'advicing' someone that he should not have posted in a hack forum, instead of just silently reporting the post and let a moderator have a chance of moving it to the correct forum without setting a negative tone.

Mark.B

01-21-2006, 03:25 PM

(From: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?p=851493#post851493)

But i do agree to some point. And this already starts by 10 people 'advicing' someone that he should not have posted in a hack forum, instead of just silently reporting the post and let a moderator have a chance of moving it to the correct forum without setting a negative tone.
Well obviously in the post you refer to I was being humourous rather than constructive. :D

I *still* hate auto-merging...it has happened to me in this thread too. But that's for another topic....

KTBleeding

01-21-2006, 03:29 PM

Something that has always bugged me is that in the event where someone releases a hack that has already been released.

Someone will always have to jump in and say, "Already released.... :link to thread:"

Maybe I'm just reading/taking that in the wrong way.. but I find that rude. Chances are that the person already knows about the other hack but didn't find what they wanted out of it so they made their own and decided to share it here.

Aside from that, I think it's obvious that as the years go on.. more and more children get vBulletin licenses. That's why you can say things like, "Three years ago this.. and four years ago that.." I just see a lot of immaturity here anymore.. Sometimes I'll open my mouth, but most of the time I just ignore it and move on.

Guest210212002

01-21-2006, 04:01 PM

These are the growing pains of a community this big.

More people + More people not using search + More threads posted asking a question that's been answered already = less accurate search results.

Paul M

01-21-2006, 04:12 PM

It probably doesn't help that the site has search problems atm.

peterska2

01-21-2006, 10:11 PM

I'm going to jump in here and admit that I've not been quite my normal helpful self earlier today and have been borderline sarcastic with a couple of posts then.

In saying that though, on the whole, I give links where appropraite. Sometimes I'll tell people exactly what terms to search for and what options in advanced search instead of just searching for it myself and giving them the link, but usually that is with people who I have already given loads of links to already that day, or have been around long enough to know better.

As for support for my mods, I always make an announcement if something is coming up that is going to affect the support I can give. An example of this is the thread in the longue saying that I'm going back to school next week and have other things happening too so support time will be limited at least for a couple of weeks.

With regards to posts in the wrong forums, I tend to find I'm reporting a minimum of 5 posts per day for this exact offence at present. Sometimes I'll post explaining which forum would have been better suited, but not all the time. The biggest cuplrit for this at the moment seems to be service requests being posted in the modifications requests forums and even in general vB questions! Of course this changes a lot and flutuates between 'releases' that are requests, and services requests elsewhere.

IMO, it's getting a little 'too many chiefs and not enough indians' around here at the moment. I know that the majority of us are admins ourselves, but does everyone really need to be moderating this site? Sometimes it feels like the 150 logged in users are 10 lurkers, 40 users, and 100 moderators/admins, when in reality there are just a couple of visable staff members logged in. If something isn't in the right place or against the rules, report it. Don't be going off at the poster. If you want to run about with your admin/mod head on go to your own site and do it, otherwise take a chill pill, introduce yourself to the report post button, and enjoy the ride.

With regards to KTBleeding's post (post #10):
There are occassions where similar releases occur. This can be quite irrattating (sp?) when you release something then within sometimes as short a time as 5 mins someone releases something practically identical. There is nothing that you can do about that though. There are many coders here who are all looking at the same requests forum. Unless someone actually says that they are working on something, then it's pretty much a free for all, and different people can release the same thing at the same time but coded differently.

Of course there are also occassions where the exact same code is released by different people. Yes, there are only so many ways of dong things with templates, but for three different people to release the same thing for versions 3.5.0, 3.5.2 and 3.5.3 with the exact same code is just silly. Often this is done by newer members who think that this is ok as they haven't read the rules about releases being your own work and not copied from someone elses. It can be inspired by, but not a direct copy.
In addition to this, some advanced and master coders get too big for their boots and think that they are better than everyone else. TBH, they are just the same as everyone else.

The difference between a member and a coder?
They coded something and got a handful of installs. Wow! It's not rocket science, but some think they are God's gift.

The difference between a coder and an advanced coder?
They got a big break or two and got a lot of installs for some plugin or other. Good for them. It doesn't make you more of a person though, you just happened to tap a need before anyone else did.

The difference between an advanced coder and a master coder?
The've had a lot of installs for a lot of assorted code mods, usually over quite a period of time. Congrats to them, but it doesn't make them any better a person than the new person who has just completed their registration and is asking how they edit a template.

Every single person here has been the newbie who doesn't know anything about vB at some point. It might have been relatively recently, it could have been right back in the vB Lite days. The thing is that we all had to learn. Can anyone honestly say that they knew what every single option in the ACP did and what every single template controlled the very first day they installed vB? I know the answer to that, No. Everyone played with the settings, probably broke something and panicked, messed up a template or other, it's the way human beings learn.

So basically, what I'm saying is everyone should give everyone else a break. Help when people ask for it. Be tolerant with newbies. Answer the same question 10 times in one day. Who cares? It's not the end of the world. Relax and enjoy the ride.

Anyway, I'm getting on my high horse a bit here and I've got a lot to do (plus the kettle's just boiled) so I'm going to stop here before I end up with a mamoth post (it's big enough already!).

If you agree with me, fine. If you don't, fine. I'm not in charge, I don't make the rules, I just see it as I see it. Take it or leave it. Everyone has a part to play in this site, but everyone has to remember that if they have got their staff head on then they are best staying at their own site and not coming here as they are not staff here but just the same as everyone else.

LBSources

01-21-2006, 10:53 PM

It probably doesn't help that the site has search problems atm.
i agree with that there.. but i still try as best i can to hunt down for what "i've seen" or imagining would be here as im sure im not alone in the 'need' of a hack or answer..

These are the growing pains of a community this big.

More people + More people not using search + More threads posted asking a question that's been answered already = less accurate search results.Yes..

you know when i had submitted some time ago a ticket with ASO, before it submitted my request, i guess it wrapped the keywords in the ticket text area and presented me some possible topics which might have helped me.. guess what? one of them did help.. hence no ticket being submitted (canned help).

so.. they can come to vb.org click the new topic as freely as they normally do, but when they click onto post it; they are presented a search of results which match some content of their post and then they must click like 'no this doesnt help' and then the thread is posted. this would be ONLY for new threads

I'd also imagine this might be a big task and maybe huge resource hog kind of hack??

But, this would cause then great reason to get the knuckles out and lash the n00bs :)

just my thoughts..

Lenny :)

Brandon Sheley

01-21-2006, 11:56 PM

Not that I agree or disagree, but its not exactly easy to find stuff around here now a days. Hopefully that will change when the "hack database" comes out.

hmmm, i don't have to big of a problem,, sure sometimes there is something I haven't found with a little searching. but, 97% of the time I can find the answer without asking..

I've almost been here one year and it seems the same today as it did when I joined up :ermm: good or bad..

Rich

01-21-2006, 11:56 PM

Hello,

I have been a member here for almost 2 years now. I can also say that things have changed. I feel that most of the problems I have seen stem from new users not reading anything. They tend to just post questions wherever they want.

I myself am tired of visiting the site only to see "new releases" that are nothing more than some user posting a question as a release. It completely defeats the purpose of having a forum structure when the new users aren't using it.

I understand the frustration that alot of the users have displayed recently.

Threads being posted in the wrong forums is so frequent now, I decided to just add my response in my signature. Its THAT frequent and THAT annoying.

CAMS

01-22-2006, 12:20 AM

My first post :)

read this and had to have a say ;)

the search on here is kind of a nightmare when looking for things.. altho with some time u do find wat u wer looking for... but it can be annouying at times :(

but remember.. thers never a stupid question.. just stupid answers ;)

meissenation

01-22-2006, 02:05 AM

My only complaint is how many people have left the vb.org community with their hacks for 3.0. It's really frustrating seeing so many great hacks for 3.0 but completely no support for them in 3.5.x; I actually regret upgrading one of the forums from 3.0.x that I did because half of the hacks that we wanted to use aren't 3.5.x compatible, and now we're left begging in threads for someone, anyone to take their knowledge of 3.0 and 3.5 and converting the necessary install files. And it's not like we're talking about people taking the time on their own and not being paid for it. I know in one thread, there were multiple people saying they're so desperate for someone to just take the time and create a database install file and an AdminCP file for 3.5.x (templates and the main .php file has already been converted from 3.0 to 3.5.x so people that already have it installed from 3.0 can run it on their 3.5.x sites, but no one can do a fresh install) that they'd gladly pay for someone to do it for them... alas unanswered. That's my only complaint, of course this coming from someone that doesn't know the beginnings of where to start when it comes to coding PHP and vBulletin.

Princeton

01-22-2006, 02:35 AM

The biggest problem here is that everyone is crying about SOMETHING ... for god sake ... stop the violin (playing in the background) and start being productive!

You need something done / upgraded / etc ... put your request in the SERVICE REQUEST forum and hire someone. Yea, it really is that simple. If you only have $10 to spare then don't come crying here for support. Everyone here is a volunteer; everyone here has a life!

You want to change the attitude around here ... well let's start with you. That's right I said YOU. :ninja:

Be helpful! Stop spamming the site with "try the search" "this doesn't belong here" "no one wants to answer my post" "I can't find anyone to upgrade this hack for free" "wrong forum" etc, etc...

You get the idea.

It's the same ole' song playing over and over again.

Go ahead spam this post with something productive ... you won't get a reply from me.

BEER DISCLAIMER: This is just a general observation and I thought it was time to speak my mind.

AN-net

01-22-2006, 02:38 AM

i am still steadfast in my opinion that you should not be modifying a board if you do not even have knowledge of the language it runs on. some people who have been administrating bullentin boards lately do not even know simple web languages such as HTML. also these new users do not even read forums or their descriptions and have an attention span of someone with a severe case of A.D.D. they can barely wait for something to develop, it either has to be what they want or its 'garbage'. i frankly find them rude. i actually have stopped posting "wrong forum", i just report it now. what happened to the big message at the top of the release forums that said "THIS IS ONLY FOR HACK RELEASES, DO NOT POST QUESTIONS." anyways that is my opinion, continue on.

Guest210212002

01-22-2006, 02:40 AM

* Guest210212002 thinks Princeton should try the search. ;)

stuff

/applaud, well said.

As far as requests going ignored, one trend I've seen more lately than before (I've actually been a member here for almost 3 years, just a new S/N), is that people don't take the time to even properly format their questions.

"iwant to make vb pages work wit template wut shud i do??????"

I'm not an expert, but I've run vB sites for about 5 years and I know my way around the templates fairly well. 50% of the time, unless it's something quick, I ignore posts like that. Call me a grammar nazi, but if people can't take the time to type their requests in a way that I can read them, I'm not going to spend 10 minutes looking for an answer.

Additionally, any time I post a question (and I do, quite a bit), if I figure out a solution, I try to make a habit of going back and editing my post with the fix, so that anyone else searching will see my answer.

.2c

PowerStroke

01-22-2006, 03:35 AM

Guest210212002

01-22-2006, 03:38 AM

The best thing to do to defeat this is to politely paste the thread they may be looking for and move on. There are PLENTY of times when I do a search and can't find what I am looking for in other forums, or if I don't get an answer that is specific to my question. My members do that also, "Do a search!", without even knowing whether they did or not.

Just my .02

Agreed.

If someone can take the time to reply with "Search on this", they should back up the fact that the search would actually be helpful by posting a link.

It's the nature of the internet unfortunately. Sometimes people just like to be rude to one another. :\ For a perfect example of threads that make me say "My goodness, what a bunch of jerks", take a look at some of the comments in Danny.VBT's myspace hack thread. It's full of people with no code experience insulting him because their free, beta hack isn't working/finished/etc. It's disgraceful.

And since we're playing the honesty game, I cannot understand why this is tolerated at all:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=879164&postcount=6

Cap'n Steve

01-22-2006, 06:21 AM

I think the changes are simply due to more people coming to this site. Quite a few of them, like many at other places on the Internet, seem to think that the whole site exists solely for their benefit.

I try and be nice and helpful when it comes to supporting my hacks, but I'll end up answering the same question 3-4 times in a single thread. A few times I've gotten questions that were actually answered in the install instructions, not to mention the people that basically want me to redesign their site for them. If you're not to take the time to learn HTML or download a WYSIWYG editor, you shouldn't be changing the templates! I don't know how people with more popular hacks can take it sometimes.

Lea Verou

01-22-2006, 09:18 AM

This is because you are looking at it from a different POV.
It's really annoying to have to answer to the same question for the 10th time.
It's really annoying to try to explain to someone who doesn't even know what "upload the X file to the Y directory" means.
It's really annoying to be bugged by IM or PMs for support.
It's really annoying to read people reporting bugs that don't exist because they didn't read the instructions.
It's really annoying to read feature requests that are already in the product
It's really annoying to hear things like "how do I make a link in HTML?" by a forum admin! Gosh, someone is supposed to know some things before starting his own forum!!
And the list goes on and on and on...
Wouldn't YOU get mad???

(In fact I am mostly calm in such situations but some times I really wanted to swear to the person :p)

Mark.B

01-22-2006, 09:26 AM

Agreed.

If someone can take the time to reply with "Search on this", they should back up the fact that the search would actually be helpful by posting a link.

It's the nature of the internet unfortunately. Sometimes people just like to be rude to one another. :\ For a perfect example of threads that make me say "My goodness, what a bunch of jerks", take a look at some of the comments in Danny.VBT's myspace hack thread. It's full of people with no code experience insulting him because their free, beta hack isn't working/finished/etc. It's disgraceful.

And since we're playing the honesty game, I cannot understand why this is tolerated at all:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=879164&postcount=6

Quite right.

I think the point is not that people should be forced to endlessly answer pointless questions, merely that the way things are said has beome rude.

If you think someone should have read the thread before asking, what's wrong with saying:

Hi. You'll find the answer to your question in this thread, might be towards the start but I can't remember offhand
As opposed to what we currently get, which tends to be:

Did you bother to actually read the thread before asking stupid questions?

With the best will in the world, faced with these threads with 500 replies, it's likely people might miss the odd post or two even if they DID read it.

Brad

01-22-2006, 10:32 AM

Good thread Mark.

I see a lot of this going on now a days. Someone already mentioned the questions in release forums so I will extend on that.

Often I will open a reported post only to find a few people have already replied to it. Most of the time the thread looks something like this:

OP:

I've installed x modification and my threads no longer work

Reply #1:

Wrong forum!

Reply #2:

* Brad shouts wrong forum newbie

Reply #3:

I hate it when people post questions in the release forums! :mad:

The odd thing is out of all three users that replied to the thread most of the time none of them sent the post report I followed. The ones that do report post simply do not reply, or they point the user to the correct forum and answer OP's question (knowing the thread will soon be moved anyway).

I understand people hate support requests in the release forums. I understand that some users don't know how to code and drive coders up the wall sometimes. I understand some people are new and are just trying to understand how things work.

With a mixed bag like this things are never going to room smoothly. But I think you will find if you make an attempt to be nice to each other you will be able to work together. :)

Darat

01-22-2006, 10:37 AM

I recently asked a question about a problem I had with AndrewD's great "Links and Downloads Manager" mod. His support thread is huge - but yes I did read through the thread before I asked my question, yet still I *missed* the fact that someone else had asked the question and a solution had been posted but all someone did was provide me a very polite response with "It's answered in post X". Being rather used to forums it wouldn't have bothered me if someone had said "moron it's already been answered" but I found the reasonable response very helpful and surely if this is meant to a community supporting vBulletin hacks and the like helpful responses are what people should be aiming for? Therefore if you can't post a useful or helpful answer why bother to post something that isn't useful or helpful?

What might be very useful would be to allow the hack coder or the person who provides the support to somehow "collapse" parts of a long thread? I've noticed that some threads will be very long and a lot of it will be problems that have been solved in the latest versions of the hack so a way of hiding a range of posts that only refer to previous versions would help everyone looking for an answer to a current problem?

Another suggestion - what about vBulletin.org adding one the auto-link systems to the forum so that when someone types in "It's a phrase called "New_hack_words" the word "phrase" auto links to a FAQ or at least brings up a definition? That would help new people get up to speed with the jargon used here?

Lea Verou

01-22-2006, 10:43 AM

Another suggestion - what about vBulletin.org adding one the auto-link systems to the forum so that when someone types in "It's a phrase called "New_hack_words" the word "phrase" auto links to a FAQ or at least brings up a definition? That would help new people get up to speed with the jargon used here?

I second this :)

Paul M

01-22-2006, 11:01 AM

With the best will in the world, faced with these threads with 500 replies, it's likely people might miss the odd post or two even if they DID read it.Yes indeed. I'm quite sure I could cut a lot of old & duplicate posts from some of my hack threads if I had the ability. Alas, unless your hack(s) get a premium forum, this isn't possible.

Brad

01-22-2006, 11:07 AM

Yes indeed. I'm quite sure I could cut a lot of old & duplicate posts from some of my hack threads if I had the ability. Alas, unless your hack(s) get a premium forum, this isn't possible.

I know it isn't the best way of doing things. But if you send me a private message I can "prune" a thread for you if needed.

Please provide as many details as you can, thanks. :)

nexialys

01-22-2006, 11:14 AM

maybe a great feature to add would be the STICKY POSTS,... author of the thread/hack can then stick some great posts that have answers, and they appear firsts in the thread... we can even add some style to them, so they are colored in red or something...

Paul M

01-22-2006, 11:44 AM

I know it isn't the best way of doing things. But if you send me a private message I can "prune" a thread for you if needed.

Please provide as many details as you can, thanks. :)A kind offer but it's not really practical for me to makes notes to pass onto someone else, that would be two/three times as much work for me, a load of extra work for you, and no doubt it would need revising a few times due to errors etc.

Mark.B

01-22-2006, 12:00 PM

My own view is that there is no need for new rules, procedures, protocols etc. All that's needed is for people to be nice to each other. Users need to be respectful of the fact that hack authors have busy lives and can't always help with every little problem, and hack authors need to understand that some people don't understand php fully. I don't, for example, but I have learned some basics over the years, But we all have to start somewhere.

Additionally, neutral people who are not the hack author need to stop posting rude things in threads where people ask for help.

In short....BE NICE! Even if you can't help or don't want to help, be nice about it. It costs nothing.

nexialys

01-22-2006, 12:35 PM

what i see, and what i tried to avoid lately, is the reaction of old members that are bored by all these newbies asking questions all over again... they start flaming each time someone create a thread in the wrong place - i know i've done it myself...

point is that these members - and i received a lot of pm about this, are bored of the innaction of some moderators that wait days to move threads that spoil their forums... sometimes i even see applauses from some members that are happy that a thread is deleted because OT...

the search engien is a trash, we all know that, but each time someone try to find something and there is no result, he:
1- post a request in the releases
2- post a request answered already in the request forum
3- post a complaint in the Feedbacks telling the search is a mess...

... i think that 50% of the convivial problems will be solved when the 3.5 version of vb.org will be set and working... and that trash of search engine fixed...

so this is Public Relations only...

and yes, i think there was hundreds of complaints about upgrading this board, it's the first time that it goes that far, and for a reason.. this is not only for upgrading and have the real upt-date version, but to fix horrors like the search engine... and some other lame complaints.

if you can't deal with a non-upgraded board, why continue visiting here until it's done? why continue spoiling discussions like this one to tell what all know?!

Public Relations / Public Communications is not always the best in any forum or community... there are some leaks here like everywhere else... so be patient, or simply do something else during the wait...

-- you can even try to overtake the board, you will have a lot of time to do it, without talking about the search engine!

MRGTB

01-22-2006, 03:26 PM

I was not around here years ago, so I can't reflect on how things were back then compared to now. But here is what I thinks going wrong to some degree from my own experience.

Some people are still running vB 3.0 boards and have not chosen to upgrade to vB 3.5. Or maybe there running two boards using (vB 3.0 and vB 3.5).

Because of this - people are still looking for support answers for vB 3.0 hacks. But it seems very few authors now who created these vB 3.0 hacks are willing to support them anymore with the introduction of vB 3.5. So there are problems arising because of that for starters.

Another thing I see quite often is plenty of hacks being released for vB 3.5 with little backup in some cases. As soon as the hacks released there advertising it as un-supported right from the off. This is problematic because later down the line people are finding bugs as expected and the hack is not supported. Other coders seem un-willing in most cases to help support these hacks they didn't create (which is understandable for a few good reasons).

For example, they might be working on there own hacks and don't have the time to help support another persons hack. Or maybe they feel the author should have added support it in the first place better and don't feel it's there place to step in and take over.

These are just a few things I've taken notice off. And with the possible new category being created were people can sell hacks. My guess is most good coders are gearing up now for this to happen, concentrating on creating paid hacks for the future. And are now slightly more un-willing to support free hacks like they may have done before.

I must admit I do get frustrated sometimes when I see a good sounding hack released, then read the whole thread before choosing to install, only to find people asking for fixes (which are un-answered). This puts me off installing the hack. And personally, I think we see this same situation all to often.

Mark.B

01-22-2006, 03:56 PM

I was not around here years ago, so I can't reflect on how things were back then compared to now. But here is what I thinks going wrong to some degree from my own experience.

Some people are still running vB 3.0 boards and have not chosen to upgrade to vB 3.5. Or maybe there running two boards using (vB 3.0 and vB 3.5).

This is certainly true, but there's a reason many people are in this position.

3.5 offers virtually NO additional features to members. However, many of the simpler 'tweaking' hacks have not been ported, such as smilies in quick reply and quote highlighted text. People like myself are not prepared to go to our members and say we've upgraded the site, you get no new features and in fact you'll lose features and have a worse board!

However, whenever we ask for these hacks to be ported, we are met with responses such as 'tell your members to get real and deal with it' or 'tell them to do without and get a life'....either that or we're totally ignored time after time.

If anyone thinks responses like that are helpful to anyone they need their head examining. I for one am not prepared to put years of hard work at risk to perform an upgrade that I neither want nor need.

This brings me back to the point of my original post - people in my position (and I'm not exactly a newbie at this) are left high and dry because we are largely treated with contempt by the experienced coders. And it will gradually put people off. I know it is me.

My community is successful because I never lose sight of the fact that it exists for the benefit of the members, not for me.

Paul M

01-22-2006, 04:14 PM

This is certainly true, but there's a reason many people are in this position.There's also a simple reason many authors no longer support 3.0 hacks as well - they have upgraded to 3.5 - so no longer have a 3.0 forum.

TruthElixirX

01-22-2006, 04:14 PM

Also if someone wants to port a 3.0 hack to 3.5 we have to get permission fro mthe original author, and if the original author cannot be found then we are not allowed to. I fidn that ridiculous. There needs to be something coders agree to when they release their hacks here that say "if I mysteriously leave and someone wants to port my hack to a new version they can". I ported a hack that had like 30 installs. It is a nice hack; but I can't release it because the original owner just disappeared.

hiiped

01-22-2006, 06:04 PM

Paul M

01-22-2006, 06:21 PM

look at this persons attitude HR3rdGen
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?p=879085
The fact that we can still read that thread sums up the problem - I can't believe that no action was taken on those posts, I would have removed the posts, and/or severely warned the poster. Just no need for such ignorance, esp in such large bold letters.

nexialys

01-22-2006, 06:31 PM

problems with such posts is that the moderators here are not numerous enough to make follow ups on bad-attitude members, and they can't ban only for a single sentence that was stupid or so...

this is a community for supporting and sharing... maybe some guys think they can play like on a off topic forum, and i hate that myself... they all forget that we're here for fun, not for fight.

EDIT:

i have a point about why this site have problems actually: the main goal of this community was to share codes and hacks... but as the members count grown, the sharing was transformed in support and had a "branch-like" of a friendship community...

this is not a code-repository anymore, and by that, we have to face other kinds of discussions, other languages with sometimes a lot of differences in the education of the participants...

Mark.B

01-22-2006, 06:32 PM

There's also a simple reason many authors no longer support 3.0 hacks as well - they have upgraded to 3.5 - so no longer have a 3.0 forum.
I agree....I have no issue with that. The problem is that many of the hacks haven't been ported.

Yours all have - for which I am eternally grateful. But there are many that haven't and one is met with derision when requesting them.

Also if someone wants to port a 3.0 hack to 3.5 we have to get permission fro mthe original author, and if the original author cannot be found then we are not allowed to. I fidn that ridiculous. There needs to be something coders agree to when they release their hacks here that say "if I mysteriously leave and someone wants to port my hack to a new version they can". I ported a hack that had like 30 installs. It is a nice hack; but I can't release it because the original owner just disappeared.
This issue *urgently* needs sorted, so that people like me can perform our upgrade without losing dozens of features.

smacklan

01-22-2006, 07:36 PM

look at this persons attitude HR3rdGen
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?p=879085

started here
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=82930 post #458 and on

can we say ignorance ?

some may not have said anything about/against him simply because they want his myspace profile layout, but this is the type of poster that may have prompted this type of topic discussion

my 2 cents

Wow...and he purports to be a Christian...yeh.

My two cents and it's not meant to offend or anything, but not much in life is free...why not learn to code and port things on your own...that's what I did and I'm no genius by any means.

Marco van Herwaarden

01-22-2006, 08:01 PM

i have a point about why this site have problems actually: the main goal of this community was to share codes and hacks... but as the members count grown, the sharing was transformed in support and had a "branch-like" of a friendship community...

this is not a code-repository anymore, and by that, we have to face other kinds of discussions, other languages with sometimes a lot of differences in the education of the participants...
Now that gets very close to the main reason for a lot of attitude problems around here lately in my opinion.

Mark.B

01-22-2006, 08:08 PM

Wow...and he purports to be a Christian...yeh.

My two cents and it's not meant to offend or anything, but not much in life is free...why not learn to code and port things on your own...that's what I did and I'm no genius by any means.
I've learned as much as I physically can. I have to work for a living and I don't have the time to learn everything I'd need to know. Running my forum takes several hours a day as it is. There just isn't enough time.

Here's another good example:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=862179&postcount=2

Is there really any need for all that crap about ignore lists?

What the hell is happening to this place?

Talisman

01-22-2006, 08:13 PM

I saved the following quoted text from a group management forum some six years ago, or so... Back then, we all managed a maillist... but as you can see, the same dynamics hold true for our online forum communities today.

I always thought it was helpful for new admins/mods to be aware how groups continue to evolve and change over time. So I always kept this with a few other resources for new staff members to read through.

What's described as a problem stage for long-running communities seems to apply to us here, as well.

Every list seems to go through the same cycle:

1. Initial enthusiasm (people introduce themselves, and gush a lot about how wonderful it is to find kindred souls).

2. Evangelism (people moan about how few folks are posting to the list, and brainstorm recruitment strategies).

3. Growth (more and more people join, more and more lengthy threads develop, occasional off-topic threads pop up).

4. Community (lots of threads, some more relevant than others; lots of information and advice is exchanged; experts help other experts as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with generosity and patience; everyone -- newbie and expert alike -- feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and sharing opinions).

5. Discomfort with diversity (the number of messages increases dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader; people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person 1 threatens to quit if *other* people don't limit discussion to person 1's pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3 tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more bandwidth is wasted complaining about off-topic threads than is used for the threads themselves; everyone gets annoyed).

6. Finally:

6(a). Smug complacency and stagnation (the purists flame everyone who asks an 'old' question or responds with humor to a serious post; newbies are rebuffed; traffic drops to a doze-producing level of a few minor issues; all interesting discussions happen by private email and are limited to a few participants; the purists spend lots of time self-righteously congratulating each other on keeping off-topic threads off the list).

OR

6(b). Maturity (a few people quit in a huff; the rest of the participants stay near stage 4, with stage 5 popping up briefly every few weeks; many people wear out their second or third 'delete' key, but the list lives contentedly ever after).

nexialys

01-22-2006, 08:16 PM

Mark.B

01-22-2006, 08:21 PM

LOL.. Psionic's banlist grow day by day... each time someone make fun of that thread actually.. lol (i suppose Mark.B is now in.. lol)

and yes, offending posts by coders that are bored of answering questions have to be dropped... i think that if a coder is bored of answering questions does NOT have to release a thing... this is not a coder's community, but a place to share... on all levels.
Quite right...nothing against Psionic, but I neither know nor care whether he has me on ignore, since with an attitude like he has, I wouldn't install his hack anyhow.

I currently use vBStatistik, forgot the author but he hasn't ported it to 3.5...never mind.

nexialys

01-22-2006, 08:25 PM

... using the hacks from someone that have a bad attitude is not wrong, not-using it for the attitude IS wrong... these codes are made to be available, support given or not...

i don't support my hacks anymore, due to the fact that i'm a father at home... i can't code and hug my kids at the same time...

but when people are asking for support and the guy released a code and is giving support, answering with a frustrated attitude is never good, because it gives a bad idea of the entire community, AND give a bad image of the product itself...

bobad

01-22-2006, 08:26 PM

Maybe all forum users should view this before posting here. :cheeky:

Forum Etiquette (http://bobaville.com/posting.swf)

smacklan

01-22-2006, 09:04 PM

I've learned as much as I physically can. I have to work for a living and I don't have the time to learn everything I'd need to know. Running my forum takes several hours a day as it is. There just isn't enough time.

I know the feeling...I work a RL job as well and my online site takes up way too much time also. But I found that I could get it done quicker the less dependent I was on others...that and I got tired of the condescending attitudes as well.

Princeton

01-22-2006, 10:06 PM

Wow...and he purports to be a Christian...yeh.
I thought the same thing when I read that post.

Freaking rediculous ... why is he worried that others may pay for a similar addon?

[back to topic]

HBRadio

01-22-2006, 11:47 PM

I agree, vB doesn't provide a lot of hands-on support; they just treat you like you know a lot about their software, and I don't.. this is just my opinion.

Lizard King

01-23-2006, 12:12 AM

I agree, vB doesn't provide a lot of hands-on support; they just treat you like you know a lot about their software, and I don't.. this is just my opinion.

What ? Jellsoft has one of the best support team. What do you expect ? Do you expect support team to teach you how to read , readme.txt or installation instructions ?

Borgs8472

01-23-2006, 12:52 AM

However, whenever we ask for these hacks to be ported, we are met with responses such as 'tell your members to get real and deal with it' or 'tell them to do without and get a life'....either that or we're totally ignored time after time.
Just to chip in, I am firmly in the 'tell your members to get real...' camp on this issue.

The statement that 'most 3.0 hacks will eventually by ported' statement was frankly wrong. You have to sort out porting the major hacks before upgrading, not after.

This means service requests.

Guest210212002

01-23-2006, 01:04 AM

I agree, vB doesn't provide a lot of hands-on support; they just treat you like you know a lot about their software, and I don't.. this is just my opinion.

vBulletin is very simple to setup if you read the install docs. They don't support the mods and hacks, because they'd have to pay someone to do said support, which would drive up the price of their product quite a bit.

nexialys

01-23-2006, 01:20 AM

I agree, vB doesn't provide a lot of hands-on support; they just treat you like you know a lot about their software, and I don't.. this is just my opinion.
this site is dedicated to Hacks and coding... if you don't know this environment, you can find a coder that will help you to deal with this. vbulletin.com is the official site where all clients can have support...

the difference between the two is that ALL clients are at the same level on vb.com, because Jelsoft is dealing with all clients... on vb.org, all members are on different levels because we have coders that participate, and clients/regular users that have requests for tools they will not be able to write from themselves...

if you evaluate that you are on the same level as the coder, then you have to face the situation where you will be talked to the same way as you'd be a coder... if you don't understand this, ask for help... nobody will drag you to the bottom of your life if you are not a coder...

and as said before, vBulletin is a paid software that is a bit complicated to code in, because it is programming, not playing... if you are not fluent with codes, you will face a lot of difficulties to deal with our codes... that's why you find complicated to install hacks that you don't know nothing about...

Reeve of shinra

01-23-2006, 02:09 AM

I think that some restructing could really help.

Again, I really think the hack database can help.
- Interface for mod developers to post their hacks
- Allow users to post add ons
- Tips / Tricks/ customizations and FAQ section
- Bug tracker to make life easier

On the forums, ... there needs to be a seperate place where people unfamiliar to coding can post help requests. Either help in fixing something, help in installing it, or even just help in modifying a function to add a little something. Yeah, maybe one of the existing forums can serve this function but there really needs to be that dividing line between "release - no chat" and "general questions on it".

Tony G

01-23-2006, 10:52 AM

Hmm, well, this place isn't exactly "unfriendly". I just see people getting tired of answering the same questions over and over, and especially when their support is completly free of charge, I don't see why they have to hide behind a smiley face. Because if they do this, a particular member will never learn to search before asking.

And frankly, this place is not what it was a few years ago. There are far less supporters, far less hack makers, so what's this going to result in? Requests for hacks not being fuffiled. Some are too big or complicated for some coders, others have lives etc. You need to understand that.

And as a few people have said, most unfriendliness comes from members basically teasing and flaming people who post things in the wrong forum. And it's never one member, sometimes it can be a whole page thread with "zomg idiot posting wrong thread I HATE YOU" and so forth. That really has to stop and I have told members several times to cut that out. There's only so much I can do in that situation.

What I'm going to end this with is - never complain about a free service. It will never be perfect, but it's still decent. Be patient, and people will respond. Bump responsibly, too. If nobody answers your support thread - it's not that people are ignorning you, it's that they might not know how to solve a problem. Not everyone here knows every nook and cranny of vB.

nexialys

01-23-2006, 12:51 PM

/me know nook and cranny... they are in vacation 'til the Hacks dB is out!

Mark.B

01-23-2006, 03:51 PM

Just to chip in, I am firmly in the 'tell your members to get real...' camp on this issue.

In which case, they go to another board. There are plenty about.

The statement that 'most 3.0 hacks will eventually by ported' statement was frankly wrong. You have to sort out porting the major hacks before upgrading, not after.

This means service requests.
That's what I've tried to do. But there are far too many that haven't been ported and clearly aren't going to be. Service requests are now pointless, they are either ignored, or else someone charges you, takes the money and clears off without doing anything.

I agree, vB doesn't provide a lot of hands-on support; they just treat you like you know a lot about their software, and I don't.. this is just my opinion.
If you're referring to vBulletin official support on the vBulletin.com website or via the support ticket system, I couldn't disagree more. They are spot on. And there's plenty of user-to-user support there too.

Paul M

01-23-2006, 04:42 PM

Service requests are now pointless, they are either ignored, or else someone charges you, takes the money and clears off without doing anything.Sorry, but I take exception to that. I respond to a small number of service requests, and do not rip off anybody.

SuperJETT

01-23-2006, 04:51 PM

I'll chime in with a possibly "fresh" outlook on this. I've been admin for several boards over the years, seen one (with over 15,000 members) rise to the top of it's area of interest in the world, peak, then become a haven for negative attitudes, started my own board that has taken off dramatically, etc etc.

At some point, things get old for the senior members, answering the same questions time/time again and they either move on or stick around and make bitter posts. (happened on elementownersclub.com in recent history)

I'm not sure how to correct it honestly except for possibly staying on the attitude of the board from day one.

However, I've recently switched from phpbb to vb and so far love it, including vb.org. I've been able to FIND all the info I needed to install hacks just by reading/searching/using my knowledge&experience except for https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=880042&postcount=187 !

I don't see an attitude here yet, but then again I haven't been around long either.

Revan

01-23-2006, 05:27 PM

* Chris-777 thinks Princeton should try the search. ;)

/applaud, well said.

As far as requests going ignored, one trend I've seen more lately than before (I've actually been a member here for almost 3 years, just a new S/N), is that people don't take the time to even properly format their questions.

"iwant to make vb pages work wit template wut shud i do??????"

I'm not an expert, but I've run vB sites for about 5 years and I know my way around the templates fairly well. 50% of the time, unless it's something quick, I ignore posts like that. Call me a grammar nazi, but if people can't take the time to type their requests in a way that I can read them, I'm not going to spend 10 minutes looking for an answer.

Additionally, any time I post a question (and I do, quite a bit), if I figure out a solution, I try to make a habit of going back and editing my post with the fix, so that anyone else searching will see my answer.

.2cAnd a well spent .2c it is.
Theres nothing that pisses me off more than people typing in "i no u guyz no dis, LOL". Also, it's highly annoying to see a post with nothing like "Edit: fixed the problem".

People (not referring to anybody in particular) can complain all they want about coders being the bad guys (or vBGals), but I for one get a genuine smile on my face when I can see a thread that goes on like this: "Hello, Im having a problem here. I tried to do x and this error happened: y. I tried searching about but nothing turned up. Got any idea?" which ends up with me WANTING to help this user. I don't ask for $500 through Paypal nor do I want him to kiss my anuses, but I do want more than "I hvae prb. [error message solved in the FAQ .5 inches further up]."

Borgs8472

01-23-2006, 06:18 PM

In which case, they go to another board. There are plenty about.

I however got the hacks ported.
That's what I've tried to do. But there are far too many that haven't been ported and clearly aren't going to be. Service requests are now pointless, they are either ignored, or else someone charges you, takes the money and clears off without doing anything.
You should have evaluated this before upgrading.

Mark.B

01-23-2006, 06:39 PM

Sorry, but I take exception to that. I respond to a small number of service requests, and do not rip off anybody.
Not everyone rips you off Paul, but a significant minority do.

You only have to look at the number of threads about this, or the number of people with comments in their sig about "never pay anyone til they've done the work".

There's clearly a hardcore of dodgy people who are sullying the name of genuine types such as yourself.

I however got the hacks ported.

You should have evaluated this before upgrading.
I *haven't* upgraded!

I've got a test board running, on which I ran the upgrade and am now gradually trying to get as many hacks as I can ported across, with a *view* to upgrading the live site.

But as yet this is some way off, and only because of silly minor things, like smilies in quick reply. Major stuff like arcades and the like are all done, bar a few minor tweaks I can do myself.

But as yet my live site remains firmly on 3.0.X because I cannot justify the upgrade at present.

I am becoming tempted to leave it until vB4 eventually comes along.

Andreas

01-23-2006, 07:02 PM

This is because you are looking at it from a different POV.
It's really annoying to have to answer to the same question for the 10th time.
It's really annoying to try to explain to someone who doesn't even know what "upload the X file to the Y directory" means.
It's really annoying to be bugged by IM or PMs for support.
It's really annoying to read people reporting bugs that don't exist because they didn't read the instructions.
It's really annoying to read feature requests that are already in the product
It's really annoying to hear things like "how do I make a link in HTML?" by a forum admin! Gosh, someone is supposed to know some things before starting his own forum!!
And the list goes on and on and on...
Wouldn't YOU get mad???

I couldn't agree more.
That and lack of time are the reasons why I don't get involved much lately.
I read through my Hack threads, but I don't answer "This does not work!" for the 10th time when the user just didn't upload the files properly, forget to make settings, etc.

S@NL - BlackBik

01-23-2006, 08:37 PM

I'll chip in a few cents too :)

I've been running vBulletin for about three years now.
The support on Vb.com is excellent. Bugreports are always attended within a few hours and you'll always get an answer.
It's pretty recent that I wanted to upgrade my board with a few of the hacks that hang around here. I started lurking here about 1,5 years ago and it's just recently that I post a bit more. Help where I can or just be amused by some threads.

As for coders go: there are some that are extremely helpfull, but there are some that never look in one of their hackthreads ever. Mostly that is solved because someone else posts the sollution for a problem. Sometimes it's not and did I have to uninstall an otherwise nice hack, because I couldn't get it running.
There are also some coders who have, as we say in the Netherlands, "long toes". They get agrevated when there are to many complaints. Well it's only human, but to place people on a ingnorelist in stead of finding a sollution is a bit brute, isn't it?

As for people that are asking questions, they realy should read a thread or use the "Search in thread function". To many time I see the question "Does this work on vB 3.5.3". Answer, "Yes it does". Than three posts further on someone else asks "Does this work on 3.5.3?" Shoot! The answer is just above his post, but he clearly didn't make an effort to read the thread before asking. That tips me off, sorry :)

So I think it's something both sides have to work on. I myself think this is an excellent forum with excellent hacks and reasonable support. Just what I could aspect from people who are doing this for a hobby ;)

peterska2

01-23-2006, 10:11 PM

Sorry, but I take exception to that. I respond to a small number of service requests, and do not rip off anybody.

Seconded, I also never take payment until the work is completed. And then I support the work undertaken for a period of time suitable to the work done. The minimum support time I provide is a week, and that's for a simple minor modification install.

Tony G

01-24-2006, 12:26 AM

* nexialys know nook and cranny... they are in vacation 'til the Hacks dB is out!

:p I'll never use that expression again

LBSources

01-24-2006, 12:48 AM

here is something that would pee me off if i was a member for so long and see things get this bad..

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=106154

he has seen it done, but doesnt want to search.. wants it to come to him.. not cool at all .. :(

Lenny

Regs

01-24-2006, 03:24 AM

I took it to mean he had seen it done on another site, not necessarily the 'hack' on this site? I dunno,seemed like a pretty innocent exchange...

nexialys

01-24-2006, 03:51 AM

he has seen it done, but doesnt want to search.. wants it to come to him.. not cool at all .. :(you have to remember that many clients that bought vBulletin think that this community owe them something because they invested 160$ on the product that make this site lives...

until we charge for the visits on vb.org, we will have such lazy requests, and we will have bored coders that will answer them (with comments like "use the search function"...)

i even got some PM lately from people that come to me in pm just to ask me what i was referring to in a post... shit, why can't they just ask in the follow up of the thread...

i also receive a lot of requests from new users about hacks they want to have on their site... why bother me with that, this is not a freelancer website where you can contact any guy and ask for a job...

sometimes i wonder why the pm system is available for new members...

anyway... this is my rant!

Paul M

01-24-2006, 11:30 AM

Perhaps some members are more polite to people who PM them with questions ....

calorie

01-24-2006, 11:40 AM

Some time back I too thought that this place was becoming more unfriendly, but then later I gave some thought to the fact that since my time here there have been over 75,000 new members. Now I just counted 13 master coders and 43 advanced coders in about 20 pages of the member list before I got bored.

At last check there were 112,131 members, and if we make the assumption that there are 100 'experienced' coders here, the numbers show that (112,131 members - 100 'experienced' coders) / 100 'experienced' coders => 1 'experienced' coder for every 1,120 members.

Even if we assume that, of the 365 pages currently in the member list, there are (13 + 43) = 56 'experienced' coders every 20 pages, that'd be a total of 1,022 'experienced' coders so (112,131 members - 1,022 'experienced' coders) / 1,022 'experienced' coders => 1 'experienced' coder for every 108 members.

Caveat: 'experienced' coder is based on 'master coder' or 'advanced coder' title alone, so please don't feel offended if you are experienced but have a different user title.

While it's not an excuse to be rude, the point is that this site is growing, and in the time it took to compose this message, there have been 15 new members.

nexialys

01-24-2006, 01:15 PM

Perhaps some members are more polite to people who PM them with questions ....maybe, but when you state in your signature that you don't code anymore, and you continue to receive unique requests in PM... not funny...

when you state in your releases that you are available for questions in PM, no trouble, this is correct... but new members that send you 2 or 3 pm just to say they are not happy with your attitude because they want you to code for them, i think it's enough for some guys to be really annoyed by new members that know nothing of the rules of life.

While it's not an excuse to be rude, the point is that this site is growing, and in the time it took to compose this message, there have been 15 new members.
lol.. you think too slowly, or you are sleeping on your keyboard calorie.. lol

i think that if this site becomes a Support Forum for any kind of vBulletin related codes/requests, the site needs a solid technical team... there is actually none... moderators for forums are not tech guys... a forum like "ask the tech" is not built, so people ask anybody about anykind of questions...

new edit:the problem i also that on vbulletin.com, when a client ask for a modification of the forum, he is redirected here right away... this is illogical... vbulletin.com is the first line of service, and they offer none if you want to edit even a single line...

there is no Frontline Support Forum here, nobody paid by Jelsoft to answer all requests redirected from vb.com... this is a major lack in the Public communications... people think that when they come here, they will have all the support and codes they need because the company said that...

this need to be fixed... even if the vb.org guys think that's not the goal of this site.

MRGTB

01-24-2006, 01:37 PM

There is a flip side to this though. One could argue that if a hack is released as "un-supported" right from the start and then quite a few bugs are quickly found with no fixes coming forward from the author becuase he advertised from the start it's un-supported.

Why should that hack remain on the site? Should it not be removed as a problem hack with no support at all. To avoid members installing it and causing problems with there site, only to find there has been no help and support with that hack right from the very word go. And when they try and get help from others they get a door slammed in there face saying things like: "Read the title - It says Un-Supported".

I would have thought the main aim of vB.org is quality, not quantity.

From my point of view, while I understand that people have real lives out there that take up there time. If a person knows when he releases a hack he simply doesn't have the time to add at least "some support" to it. I think he should think twice about even releasing it until he can at least add some limited support to it. As 99 times out of 100. Bugs are found in most hacks sooner or later.

Telegon80

01-24-2006, 01:48 PM

on the longer threads where people ask a question no page 75 i dont expect a response... i wouldnt type a response either.

i would assume we are all admins and we sortof know how vbulletin works. u can always do a 'search this thread' and find the answer to your problem instead of waiting for someone to cut the fruit into little squares and put it in your mouth.

[/search nazi]

p.s. i know squat about 'coding' yet i always find my answers by searching, and yes i do have unanswered hack requests, but then again if everyone here is on my level which i assume they are, working 40+ hours a week then its hard to get to do stuff on the side for total strangers. just my 2 cents.

Andrew

01-24-2006, 02:15 PM

Not everyone rips you off Paul, but a significant minority do.

You only have to look at the number of threads about this, or the number of people with comments in their sig about "never pay anyone til they've done the work".

There's clearly a hardcore of dodgy people who are sullying the name of genuine types such as yourself.
I think the majority of that blame falls on the part of the buyer that failed to do their research before sending money. If members would do some research on the prospective person they want to hire it would eliminate 99% of the problems. Mind you there will still be the occasional person with great reputation that scams someone, but in most cases it comes down to poor judgement calls. Would you give a complete stranger $10,000 up front to let's say redo your roof ? Of course not. It defies common logic to do so. If anything you give a much smaller deposit, and then you give the final percentage when the job is finished. I guess I just don't get how people fail to understand that the same logic applies to online dealings ?

amykhar

01-24-2006, 02:26 PM

jilly

01-24-2006, 03:02 PM

First of all - I really appreciate all the hard work and time that the hackers put into these great hacks!!

I also sometimes miss an answer, or a post I need, because either I searched on the wrong term, or it just didnt come up.

I'm very grateful for a 'here it is' response with a link to the post, or hack, or solution.

There's just no need for rudeness, esp. to new members who may not even know HOW to search a thread for what they are looking for. Just politely say "here" and give them the link..

And for anything other that they may do wrong, like IM or PM someone for support without knowing, just again let them kindly know about the protocol.

As for thanking the coders more, I would be happy to put a link down in my footer or at the bottom of my forumhome, thanking the coder for a hack - listing like

'Reported Post Creates New Thread hack created by Paul - Thank you!'

with a link to their site or something.
Maybe if this could become an extra voluntary practice for people who appreciate the free hacks, it will help the coders feel even more appreciated :)

If so, then the coders should put a little html snippet already coded with a suggested location for the really basic people to help them understand where to put it :)

LBSources

01-24-2006, 03:13 PM

sometimes i wonder why the pm system is available for new members...

anyway... this is my rant!There is another forum im a member of that do not allow PMs from new members.. they need atleast XX posts in order to use the feature.. sure after XX posts they will be allowed, but they need to achieve XX posts and if they try to post +++++ their way there they will be banned before then.. so its an attempt..

Deimos

01-24-2006, 04:01 PM

There's quite a few rude people on this forum and for some reason, the mods let them get away with it
It does put people off from posting here, it sure as hell puts me off.
So I agree with you

Cap'n Steve

01-24-2006, 09:55 PM

the problem i also that on vbulletin.com, when a client ask for a modification of the forum, he is redirected here right away...

Good point. I think a lot of people think Jelsoft directs them here to ask their questions and might not even know that there are hacks ready to be downloaded here.

I also think Jelsoft needs to actually hire a staff for this site. It'd be a pretty small investment but it'd do a world of good.

Mark.B

01-24-2006, 10:40 PM

This thread I started has proved interesting.

However, I don't want it to detract from the wonderful work the hack coders do on here.

My site has both of the Arcades, Inferno Quiz and vBAdvanced, all of which are major additions that my community really couldn't do without. And then I've got numerous smaller hacks installed like thread of the day, latest stats, Hangman, vbstatistik, smilies in quickreply, blink on new PM, new reputation comments, users online today, rep click tracker, quickquote, quotehighlighted, custom online locations, etc etc etc too many to mention, all of which work brilliantly and all of which help make my site what it is.

So I do not want to detract in any way from the wonderful work of the coders on here, and that was never my intention.

Andreas

01-24-2006, 11:03 PM

There's just no need for rudeness, esp. to new members who may not even know HOW to search a thread for what they are looking for. Just politely say "here" and give them the link..
I don't want to sound arrogant, but:

Users who post questions are licensed Jelsoft customers. This means they are forum admins. At least I expect that a forum admin does know the basics of forum software - and searching is a basic function.
Also, I would think that total newbies don't come to vBulletin.org - they go to vBulletin.com.
Theoretically, only "advanced users" who need/want more than the standard functionality of vBulletin would come to vBulletin.org.

If a person knows when he releases a hack he simply doesn't have the time to add at least "some support" to it. I think he should think twice about even releasing it until he can at least add some limited support to it.

That would mean no more Hacks from me, as I don't have much time to support them.
Though, I still release them - stating that there is absolutely no support.
Why do I do this?
Because I think that even if there are bugs and problems, it might be useful for others (use it as a base for their own stuff, fix it, etc.)
If you come across Hacks that say "No support", and you know you need support - I'd suggest to just keep away from those Hacks.

Lea Verou

01-24-2006, 11:06 PM

nexialys

01-24-2006, 11:29 PM

in the last week, i refered 13 or 14 new users to the vbulletin.com/doc/ url because they were in need of support on how to edit templates, or give permissions on forums etc...

i think that vb.com is the place where all answers have to be given, and vb.org the place where advanced admins have access to all additions...

Borgs8472

01-24-2006, 11:38 PM

rep click tracker
I'm the guy who first made this request and someone made this for me!

I since paid to get it ported to vb 3.5, you have have it for $5

Demo:

www.wordforge.net in the usercp

davidw

01-25-2006, 12:16 AM

I'm just tired of reading all the profanity in these forums. I've reported a few posts, but it doesn't do much good because it doesn't prevent future incidents.

jilly

01-25-2006, 12:53 AM

EXACTLY!!!
It really gets on my nerves to see a forum admin that doesn't know how to upload a file or some basic HTML. How do they expect to succeed then??

There's something called a learning curve. I know several admins who started forums knowing NOTHING about html, css, templates, coding, etc. They learned as they went along.

Why be so harsh on people who are on their way to learning? Why assume, automatically, that new people are lazy and selfish? When I first came here in 2002 I knew almost nothing about coding, and several of the 'smarter' members here were very kind and polite to me, and helped me out, and I was very grateful. A little kindness and patience goes a long way.

TruthElixirX

01-25-2006, 01:04 AM

Talisman

01-25-2006, 01:05 AM

Guest210212002

01-25-2006, 01:18 AM

I have to question the comment made here that vb.org should be for advanced admins only. Is it really necessary to promote such an elitist position at a forum created for the purpose of sharing hacks and coding advice with fellow board owners?

Not at all. But something to the tune of X posts to be able to post in the hacks forum at the very least would be nice - even if it's only something like 15.

Regs

01-25-2006, 01:46 AM

The whole point really of having plugins and such in vB 3.5 is so that one doesn't need to be an advanced admin...

I also agree with the poster who said hiring a rep for Jelsoft here fulltime would go a long ways in really getting this site to realize it's full potential.

Here's my suggested steps:

1. Hire a new rep for Jelsoft here
2. Expand the staff and cull staff members that haven't done anything or been here for long stretches of time.
3. Institute rewards for coders and their plugins
4. Stop the habit of closing threads when 1 poster gets out of hand - give them a warning and a .org time-out
5. Somehow change the coders vs non-coders caste system here. It really does inhibit any sense of true community if that is one of the goals of the site.
6. Hire a coder for a full month to get this site upgraded once and for all. Not a slag, yes, it takes time for people who have a real life, but the site just seems so outta sync with the rest of the vB world.

Cheers,

~Regs.

Lord Angelus

01-25-2006, 02:15 AM

There's something called a learning curve. I know several admins who started forums knowing NOTHING about html, css, templates, coding, etc. They learned as they went along.

Why be so harsh on people who are on their way to learning? Why assume, automatically, that new people are lazy and selfish? When I first came here in 2002 I knew almost nothing about coding, and several of the 'smarter' members here were very kind and polite to me, and helped me out, and I was very grateful. A little kindness and patience goes a long way.

I definitely fit into this. When I started working with forums I knew very little. I still know little, kinda. I know what I learn from trying out the things I want to do on my forum or webpage. On a scale of Beginner to Advanced, I'm definitely at least a Beginner.

I've looked around at the number of threads with people asking for help(My previous posts have been asking for help) and it really doesn't seem like help is being offered. Reading the thread and searching work, but it's also as effective as the person's ability to find the right keywords to search for. You wont always get results related to what you want. And of course, if a person lazy or looking to get right to the answers, they'll skip that process entirely.

Personally, I couldn't find the specific help I needed from reading the originating thread(all 15+ pages of it) for what I was doing, if asking for help a few times(With quite a bit of time in between each attempt) doesn't get me anything I no longer feel too inclined to bother asking further.

Cap'n Steve

01-25-2006, 03:32 AM

There are thousands upon thousands of sites where you can read tutorials and ask questions about PHP, HTML, MySQL, etc. This is not one of them. I'll be happy to answer questions about my hacks (although attempting to find the answer before asking would be nice), but I'm not here to redesign your site for you.

Revan

01-25-2006, 08:39 AM

There's something called a learning curve. I know several admins who started forums knowing NOTHING about html, css, templates, coding, etc. They learned as they went along.

Why be so harsh on people who are on their way to learning? Why assume, automatically, that new people are lazy and selfish? When I first came here in 2002 I knew almost nothing about coding, and several of the 'smarter' members here were very kind and polite to me, and helped me out, and I was very grateful. A little kindness and patience goes a long way.Those people shouldn't extensively modify their hacks with other people's code then.
The introduction of plugins helped make installs easier, but I beleive the main reason was that they wanted to make upgrades easier and support still valid without too much hassle.
Im not trying to be elitist, but people should really try to learn themselves before asking questions, which isn't the general mentality of some members. I learned this lesson 2 years ago when I asked about a while() problem and got no answers. I decided to learn for myself, which has served me well ever since.

nexialys

01-25-2006, 09:39 AM

when we buy a first car, we're supposed to have licenses... at least. even if we don't have much experience, because it's our first car, we have to learn how to drive it... we follow a course for that...

managing a software we don't know is the same... even if i was already a coder before trying vbulletin, i read the main Docs of the software to know what was inside, and where to search if i had bugs with the existing system...

actually, everybody that buy vBulletin doesn't care about reading the docs... they just think that buying it make them powerful over a team of coders that are paid for their interests...

the image of vBulletin.org is one of those sites where clients have freelancers to their wills... i've had many of my first clients here that thought they did not have to pay me for special requests because they paid 160$ for their software and that was enough...

this have to change... and i'm quite sure nothing will be done for that... so this is completely useless to debate that kind of thing.

Cap'n Steve

01-26-2006, 03:16 AM

Not even this forum?

I knew someone would say that. :nervous: (Although most questions about PHP and HTML don't end up there.) Really though, if you have a question that would fit in that forum, you're probably better off going to a site that specializes in coding and design discussion.

Guest210212002

01-26-2006, 03:18 AM

the image of vBulletin.org is one of those sites where clients have freelancers to their wills... i've had many of my first clients here that thought they did not have to pay me for special requests because they paid 160$ for their software and that was enough...

this have to change... and i'm quite sure nothing will be done for that... so this is completely useless to debate that kind of thing.

Sourceforge started out like this, you know. ;)

davidw

01-26-2006, 12:34 PM

when we buy a first car, we're supposed to have licenses... at least. even if we don't have much experience, because it's our first car, we have to learn how to drive it... we follow a course for that...Not to disagree with you, because essentially it is the same. However, one small tidbit of information is, in fact, different.
It is the analogy of this, and possibly I have become confused by your statement, but here's how I read it.

* The first car = vbulletin.
* The license = given to us when we purchase vbulletin, not before.
* We learn to drive it = learning after we purchase vbulletin and obtain a license, not before - otherwise it would be an illegal copy of vbulletin and considered piracy.
* We follow a course = there is no course for learning vbulletin, only help from help topics.

Other than that, I agree with you. This is only my opinion and as I stated before, I could have been confused by what you have said and totally misconstrued your statement.

Princeton

01-26-2006, 12:44 PM

You Should Know...

As an administrator or staff member of your own vbulletin-powered site you should understand that:
people have different learning curves some learn visually,
others learn verbally,
others are hands on people come from all over the world (the WEB is a big melting pot) it's difficult for some to communicate but they try ... I have even seen a few instances where these hard-to-communicate-people share their own modifications on this board people will post anything anytime ... you don't have to respond - IGNORE IT ... really, it's that simple
people are not perfect - do not tell them how to speak or write some people are sensitive - you may be helping them or you may be pushing them away ... bite your tongue someone else will do it
if it's an article or tutorial-style post then it's ok to correct spelling (send a pm) ... the author will appreciate it if a thread is derogatory, misleading, or against site rules you should delete it don't just close it ... it doesn't matter how many posts exists
if a post is derogatory, misleading, or against site rules you should delete it
If you don't understand any of this:
then you will never reach full potential
then you don't belong here
sorry, just ignore
Posting A Request

If you are putting in a request make sure you post details and a budget
if you want something free ... don't expect it
if it doesn't make sense, you will not get any takers
if you only offer $50 for a 20 hour project you will not get any replies or you will get replies from .. let's just say that you will get what you pay forIf you are a coder and servicing a request make sure the other party knows everything up front (cost, rights, etc) ... it will save you time and headaches

vbulletin.org is available for everyone.

vbulletin.org is a community about everything that deals with vBulletin or at least it should be. For example, modifications, products, addons, styles, articles, tutorials, forum subjects regarding community building, etc, etc

nexialys

01-26-2006, 01:34 PM

* We follow a course = there is no course for learning vbulletin, only help from help topics.
there is a great Documentation Center on vb.com: http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/ that is in my opinion the first place to look at when we need some details about how to manage vBulletin...

i'm pretty sure that 75% of the requests about features would be solved by visiting this site... i usually point out the exact topic in the docs when i encounter a member that ask for help on features... they usually think we're here for support on the existing forum, but as it's not the case, i think it is just good to point them the docs instead of giving them the entire procedure...

davidw

01-26-2006, 01:40 PM

there is a great Documentation Center on vb.com: http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/ that is in my opinion the first place to look at when we need some details about how to manage vBulletin...I agree about that - which is part of what I considered help topics. When I mentioned course, to clarify, I mentioned it as in to consider a class to take, for example, where you learn how to do something; to [be] taught, etc. Sorry for the confusion.

PennylessZ28

01-28-2006, 05:36 PM

I have to disagree with the first poster. I have seen help given out, but after reviewing the hacks over the past versions, 2 - 3 and 3.5 it seems like the same list of people developing hacks.

However the people searching for hacks and asking questions have gotten ruder and more demanding. I'll point to vbspace for some on the insults there just becuase people can't wait for something to be produced.

I see nothing but jerky comments left and right from people with a post count 10. "Oh your hack broke my forum, it doesn't work,bla bla bla I'm cussing now"

Give me a break. I've tried to be as helpful as I could on this forum until it gets to a certian point and then you're just drained and you start to care less.

People need to understand that YOU DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO ANYTHING. PERIOD[U] Just becuase a hack might be supported or you think you deserve it, the author doesn't owe you a thing. Its that simple.

I don't see any user support agreements here. And the SUPPORTED check box is not a user support agreement.

A community is only as strong as its members.

Zachariah

01-28-2006, 05:48 PM

A community is only as strong as its members.

I am down to 3 showers a week. :D
- How strong must I be ?

* Zachariah goes back to his cave.

Lizard King

01-28-2006, 06:13 PM

hiiped

01-28-2006, 11:37 PM

Its very difficult for a new user who wants a hack, but the thread of the hack has 1100 replies and two months has passed since the author ( of the hack ) has last updated the hack, especially when within those 1100 replies are reported bugs, and maybe some fixes to some bugs .

Going thru 1100 posts is not easy.

we wish the hacks thread would only contain reported bugs, and the fixes, instead most are filled with "usernamehere clicks install"
"thanks for the blah blah blah"
"Joe, nice style on your forum"
"How did you do blah blah blah in your footer Rick ? " ( why do we have a PM button here again ? )

I'm sure the author appreciates those comments, but I believe they can click and view who has INSTALLED their hacks.

Maybe vb.org should install the Thank You hack and promote usage of it.

( exits stage left )

TruthElixirX

01-29-2006, 12:42 AM

Maybe vb.org should install the Thank You hack and promote usage of it.
( exits stage left )

Sounds like a good idea. That is one reason I don't say thank you often is because it clutters the thread.

Paul M

01-29-2006, 12:49 AM

I'm sure the author appreciates those comments, but I believe they can click and view who has INSTALLED their hacks. No, they can't (and yes, we've asked ;)).

Corriewf

01-29-2006, 01:05 AM

Could it be that before the plug in system people used to have to edit the code themselves and some actually learned a thing or two by doing so. I think the plug in system has made people lazy and stupid.

TruthElixirX

01-29-2006, 01:44 AM

I believe this holds true. I learned how to read PHP (I can fix an error generally if I get something wrong. I can't make things yet though. >.<) by fixing errors I got. Plug-ins are a no brainer though.

hiiped

01-29-2006, 03:10 AM

No, they can't (and yes, we've asked ;)).

Im surprise its not

on vbhackers.com thats how it is

cant understand why vb.org hasnt done the same

oh well .........

PS: I APPRECAITE ALL THE CODERS HARD WORK ( even if I dont say so in all hack threads )

davidw

01-29-2006, 10:55 AM

we wish the hacks thread would only contain reported bugs, and the fixes, instead most are filled with "usernamehere clicks install"I am guilty of this - but for two reasons. 1) As a point of reference from when I installed the hack and 2) to subscribe to the thread in case there are problems with the hack - I can see what replies have been made as it has been the case in quite a few hacks I've used that all is not perfect and I have had issues (not to say that the hack doesn't work but might not A) work with another hack that uses the same/similar hook or B) be compatible with my style or C) has small bugs that need fixing.)

If I do have problems with the hack, I usually search for my post within the thread and go from there. When I am interested in a hack, prior to clicking install, I will read the threads and make post-notes of problems others will have and remember that if I encounter a similar problem, I know where to look to fix it.

wtrk

01-29-2006, 01:45 PM

I myself am tired of visiting the site only to see "new releases" that are nothing more than some user posting a question as a release. It completely defeats the purpose of having a forum structure when the new users aren't using it.

yeah i find that as well to be the most annoying thing. i dont mind the stupid questions or double post, nobody is forcing you to read them.

Paul M

01-29-2006, 01:56 PM

nobody is forcing you to read them.Is there some other method to know what someone posted then ?

tehste

01-29-2006, 02:30 PM

Ok well I've said it once, but no one listened, so I'll say it again...

Coder Levels (Coder/Advanced Coder/Master Coder) These levels should be revised. Or removed to just give Coder/Member

Reason: The levels use statistics and no way correlate to the ability of the coder (as the status implies) vb.org is currently implicity ranking hacks as to their quality in a way that is completely unreliable.

.Tim

01-29-2006, 05:37 PM

EXACTLY!!!
It really gets on my nerves to see a forum admin that doesn't know how to upload a file or some basic HTML. How do they expect to succeed then??

Once they figure out how to use the PM function you are SO getting angry PM's!

There's something called a learning curve. I know several admins who started forums knowing NOTHING about html, css, templates, coding, etc. They learned as they went along.

Why be so harsh on people who are on their way to learning? Why assume, automatically, that new people are lazy and selfish? When I first came here in 2002 I knew almost nothing about coding, and several of the 'smarter' members here were very kind and polite to me, and helped me out, and I was very grateful. A little kindness and patience goes a long way.

Almost every question you or anyone else has to ask has already been asked. Which is where the frustration comes in, people need to learn to search and actually put in some effort to get what they need. Go look in the request forums and see how many duplicate requests there are, sometimes on the same page. Of course sometimes there are going to be duplicate threads because the search is only as good as the keywords used but still, it's a bit much. January 2005 was the first time I'd done anything more than post on a vbulletin board and I started up my own. I rarely posted threads/posts asking for help because I took the time to look up the errors and figure out the fix myself and then if I was still unable to I posted about it. There's also a lot of people asking for hacks that have been released within a month prior to them asking for it. I used to post links to the hacks for them but no longer will. I refuse to help people be lazy. As much as I love the plugin/product feature it's only encouraging people to be even more lazy. A great example of lazy people wanting all the work done for them can be found in the "spice up your profile like myspace" thread.
Or check out the profile comments thread and people are asking questions that are addressed in the FIRST post. It'd be one thing if the answer was in post 300 in 600 post thread but it's in the FIRST post. I also have gotten quite a few IM's asking for help and I'll give them suggestions and they'll try one or two and then say "can't you just do it for me. i'll give you rights, etc..." and most of them want it for free. So now I either ignore them or say I'm too busy.
And don't even get me started on how amazed I am that so called forum admins can't even post in the correct forum. I'm afraid to see what their boards look like.
I have no problem helping people if they've tried but just can't figure it out and have run out of options. But not the "I just had this problem and want someone else to fix it for me right now" kind of people. Apparently nobody wants to actually put in any work these days. I don't think a day goes by I'm not tweaking, modifying or working on some way to make my board better. Only thing more frustrating that seeing all the lazy people is seeing people enabling the laziness by helping them out.

gothicuser

01-29-2006, 08:08 PM

I've learned as much as I physically can. I have to work for a living and I don't have the time to learn everything I'd need to know. Running my forum takes several hours a day as it is. There just isn't enough time.

Here's another good example:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost.php?p=862179&postcount=2

Is there really any need for all that crap about ignore lists?

What the hell is happening to this place?
I could not agree with you more my friend. The almost total arrogance of only one or two of these people really does cast an unneeded shadow here. I am like you, I work hard all week, and spend the vast majority of my spare time caring for my site/community FOR FUN! I enjoy experimenting with mods and themes but normally need some assistance. If I am going to get abused for asking for help then why bother?
I bother because I love vB.:ermm:

p.s. ... :tired:I too have been added to this persons 'ignore list' -- and am glad!:tired:

Guest210212002

01-29-2006, 08:44 PM

Psi is a good guy, just a little stressed out lately it would seem.

Paul M

01-29-2006, 10:49 PM

Reason: The levels use statistics and no way correlate to the ability of the coder (as the status implies) vb.org is currently implicity ranking hacks as to their quality in a way that is completely unreliable.I disagree. To get to advanced or master, many people need to have installed your work. If the hacks were poor then people would soon realise and either not install, or uninstall, them.

Guest210212002

01-29-2006, 11:28 PM

Sorry to say this but after reading your posts in some threads i don't think you are the right person to comment on this subject because people like you starts everything.

I also think how strong i am :p

Yes, because your post here:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=106604

Why don't you use search function ?

Is really helping things. Pot, meet kettle. It took me about 2 minutes longer than it did for you to be rude to him to answer his question and move on.

carpefile

01-29-2006, 11:40 PM

I'm one of the lowlies that can stumble thru someone else's work and find where I screwed up the install but can't code my way to "hello world".
I appreciate the help I have received from the knowledgable coders here, always freely given, usually with an astonishing level of patience on their part. It has brought me to a level where I can at least look at code and grasp its function.
Its true there can be a certain level of ego and arrogance on the part of the coders, but in my experience, this is true of most anyone knowledgable in their field dealing with someone unknowledgable.
Noobs are to be expected at a tweak/hack/help site such as this, and tolerance and patience on the part of the helpers should be SOP.
The other side of the coin of course is that a certain amount of effort on the part of those seeking help should also be expected, along with the realization that those helping are volunteers, giving their time and knowledge freely.

It is the staff's responsibility to keep things in balance here. Coders need to be able to police their own release threads. The search here is monstrously bloated, and really needs an overhaul. The hack db I keep hearing about is a wonderful idea, will help organize things here immensely.
IMHO, stricter rules need to be in place and rigorously enforced regarding flaming, improper post placement, and laziness with regards to selfhelp.

I have learned so much here, usually by simply reading what has been previously posted. I'd hate to see such a valuable resource as this deteriorate into a leet newb bashing flame pit.

Lizard King

01-30-2006, 07:17 AM

Yes, because your post here:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=106604

Is really helping things. Pot, meet kettle. It took me about 2 minutes longer than it did for you to be rude to him to answer his question and move on.

If someone is not using the search function and posting in the wrong forum there is nothing i can do for them. Everybody in here are nearly forum administrators and we all know that in our own boards we want users to post in related forums or use the search function. Why shall it be different in here ?

Anyway you can continue on your own problems and please don't expect me to join with you.

The main problem is mentioned couple of times in here. People donot act right in vBulletin.org because they think that they need to get help from any other person but first of all they need to help themself by using board features.

I learned a lot about php and coding here at vBulletin.org and if in anyway i can help anyone i always try to help them if it is within my knowledge. If someone is breaking the rules or if someone is not using the forum features i deny to help them because that kind of people has no respect to any other person.

tehste

01-30-2006, 04:40 PM

I disagree. To get to advanced or master, many people need to have installed your work. If the hacks were poor then people would soon realise and either not install, or uninstall, them.

well for example uShop. -Full of super globals which are a huge security issue amongst other *sloppy* coding- has alot of installs. Alot of *Popular* hacks are attrociously coded. So installs doesnt correlate to quality.

Paul M

01-30-2006, 10:10 PM

Alot of *Popular* hacks are attrociously coded. So installs doesnt correlate to quality.That's just your personal view, others may not agree with it.

I never said installs directly related to quality, but it's a factor - and you need a bit more than 1 hack to get Advanced/Master, even if it has 1000 installs.

tehste

01-31-2006, 01:03 AM

That's just your personal view, others may not agree with it.

I never said installs directly related to quality, but it's a factor - and you need a bit more than 1 hack to get Advanced/Master, even if it has 1000 installs.

It's my personal view obviously! I wouldn't post it if it wasn't. However, it is not *just* my personal view as other people have similar views. The titles are Misleading. Maybe they should be *Popular Coder* Rather than master coder which implies improved coding skills which is *usually* not the case.

Alot of un technical users assume that Master Coder's addons are better coded because of their alleged master coding status. I have seen many Master Coder's addons with sloppy code throughout.

Guest210212002

01-31-2006, 01:58 AM

That's just your personal view, others may not agree with it.

I never said installs directly related to quality, but it's a factor - and you need a bit more than 1 hack to get Advanced/Master, even if it has 1000 installs.

And clearly, in my case, more than 30 installs to be a Coder. ;)

* Guest210212002 kicks stuff, bites his thumb at Paul and his superior coding skills and actually useful mods

Paul M

01-31-2006, 02:34 AM

Maybe they should be *Popular Coder* Rather than master coderLOL - "Popular Coder". :banana: I'm not sure some of the staff (or members) would quite go with that as an alternative ;) :dead:

Corriewf

01-31-2006, 03:02 AM

LOL - "Popular Coder". :banana: I'm not sure some of the staff (or members) would quite go with that as an alternative ;) :dead:

I think there should be a title " God Like " and when you click on that persons profile a mp3 plays the sexy voice from ut 2k4 " MMm GOD LIKE!".....

Brandon Sheley

01-31-2006, 03:51 AM

I'm surprised this thread is still going..lmao+

since it is, I'll put in my 2 cents,, unless I already did *thinks for a sec* well if so, I'll toss my 4 cents..lol

I've been here almost one year, and I'm not going to say I didn't know anything about coding when I got here, but I sure know a lot more now then when I started.
People have to realize that this site is rather large, and the search function is a great tool, I've ran into problems where I wasn't searching the correct terms for what I was looking for, but all in all I've had a pleasant time here and been pleased with what has been offered to me for FREE :)

just want to say thank you to all the coders and member that have helped me out, and to those that are complaining about this system. I think maybe you should take a week away from your boards, get some fresh air, and enjoy your life.\

Most comunities that are built with the help of others on this site are for fun, and a hobby. I think some of your are taking things to personally and trying to make things harder on yourself then they really need to be. :)

P.S. if your not happy with the search fuction on this site, just go to some larger sites 1,000,000 plus member and try searching for a spasific phrase or item there, after that you may apperciate what you can find here..

:)

Cap'n Steve

01-31-2006, 05:30 AM

And clearly, in my case, more than 30 installs to be a Coder. ;)
I'm guessing it has to do with your join date, since I got my coder title with 1 hack and 5 or 10 installs. The advanced title must have some crazy requirements though, since Mr.ZeroPage (IBPro Arcade author) is still a coder with 600+ installs.

Logikos

01-31-2006, 06:04 AM

I really don't mind answering the same questions over and over again. I don't spend alot of time in the request forum, but I often will check it out to see if any users have posted any nice ideas worth putting my time into.

If the user is requesting a hack that has already been created, I will link them to it or let the user know the name of the coder who released it. I do this because I most of the time know which user released said hack. Most users will find either or, just as helpfull. I havn't really ran into a user who was mad because I didn't post an exact link/location to what they are looking for.

I personally am still learning PHP everyday. :) Don't let the titles fool anyone, they don't really mean much to me. The only advantage I see is that if you ask for help, you tend to get a quicker responds (Just my experiance). I have seen plenty of rude threads/post and just ignore them. I don't have much time argueing with people in threads.

I expect people to post the same question/request all the time. There is nothing anyone can do to stop it completely. If a member ask a question that I know, and I allready know someone has asked this before; I'll answer it anyways. Makes me feel better. Those threads are consider an easy post count while still countributing to the community. :p

I think everyone just needs to lighten up some. Where all here to do the same thing. Install Hacks / Code Hacks, and most importantly, learn! :)

Hornstar

01-31-2006, 09:03 AM

I think the problem is because vb.com does not support more hacks, they need to back the coders more and support them more to make the overall product better.

I dont think they support hacks at all, because if you ever install one, they wont support you if you have installed any hacks on your site.

I'm sure vb.com could provide some staff to pursue some of the great hacks that were made for 3.0.x and redo them for 3.5.x That would make the community happy, as it has been several months and there are still some really important hacks being delayed.

this is a matter that has angered lots of members from this community.

I think the problem is because vb.com does not support more hacks, they need to back the coders more and support them more to make the overall product better.

I dont think they support hacks at all, because if you ever install one, they wont support you if you have installed any hacks on your site.

I'm sure vb.com could provide some staff to pursue some of the great hacks that were made for 3.0.x and redo them for 3.5.x That would make the community happy, as it has been several months and there are still some really important hacks being delayed.

this is a matter that has angered lots of members from this community.

Guest210212002

01-31-2006, 02:22 PM

I'm guessing it has to do with your join date, since I got my coder title with 1 hack and 5 or 10 installs. The advanced title must have some crazy requirements though, since Mr.ZeroPage (IBPro Arcade author) is still a coder with 600+ installs.

I've actually been a member here since August of 2004, I just got a new license, and stopped being the admin of my old-license's site, and wanted to associate any hacks/etc that I release with a more suitable name. :)

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=105453

That's me. ;)

Paul M

01-31-2006, 04:44 PM

So Ed from Orlando is Chris from Boston ????

Brandon Sheley

01-31-2006, 05:05 PM

is it just me, or did hornstar1337 say the same thing twice ?...hehe

Guest210212002

01-31-2006, 06:02 PM

So Ed from Orlando is Chris from Boston ????

Well, Ed from Orlando ran Club3G with me, and is now the guy in charge of that license, thus the Club3G account on here is associated with him, not me. When I ran Club3G, I used it, but now that I don't, here I am!

* Guest210212002 is confusing himself

is it just me, or did hornstar1337 say the same thing twice ?...hehe

It's just you.

It's just you.

Hornstar

01-31-2006, 11:51 PM

I was probably just trying to make the point stick more ^^

Lottis

02-01-2006, 04:15 PM

I don't want to sound arrogant, but:

Users who post questions are licensed Jelsoft customers. This means they are forum admins. At least I expect that a forum admin does know the basics of forum software - and searching is a basic function.
Also, I would think that total newbies don't come to vBulletin.org - they go to vBulletin.com.
Theoretically, only "advanced users" who need/want more than the standard functionality of vBulletin would come to vBulletin.org.

This is perhaps very wrong. I am a admin on my place. And i started scratsh, and i couldent nothing. Everyone have to start somewhere. vBulletin has members from all over the world. And some of us speaks very bad english. (writes). Pls bee more pation, dont forget that you gues also have been a newbee. ;)
But i agree that if the aurtor writes, no support. Then it is, no support.
I have asked about the most stupid question during the time i have been a meber here. But luckely, i have got very good help.

peterska2

02-12-2006, 01:35 AM

Ok, I know I'm bumping again, but I need to add another $0.02 to this thread (it's starting to get expensive now!!!!)

Now considering this user has his/her homepage set to www.vietvbb.com (http://www.vietvbb.com) you'd be expecting them to have an understanding of vB seeing as their site appears to be distributing mods translated into what appears to be Vietanmese (sp?) and is quite heavily modded.

Now look at this thread.........https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?p=897773#post897773

It just baffles belief.

Not only is it a new thread for a hack related question, but the answer to the question is not lost in the middle of the thread, but is on the first page!

* peterska2 starts adding instructions to my new releases saying that difficulties may arise if you cannot read, follow instructions, or work vB

And BTW, I knew offically jack all when I started using vB. I still ask stupid questions every now and then, but I ensure I ask them in the right places and search first. I'm still learning, and still make errors. But then again, as things progress there is new stuff to learn, so I don't think anyone can honestly say that they truely know every single thing about vB, php, mySQL, and HTML

Clayton

04-06-2006, 04:36 PM

anyone know where I can get a dry martini and a donkey named Sally, please?

Clayton

04-06-2006, 04:49 PM

great I know exactly where that is .. Chruchtown, Mallow in Cork Eire and strangely enogh about 1mile away from where my folks stay :lick:

small world

and it just goes to show how helpful the forums are

Tyegurl

04-08-2006, 12:43 PM

i want to say thanks for posting this thread.

i gained a lot of advice and information that i will use to improve my searching tecniques and my vb ettiquette. i have been trying to help others but sometimes i get lost in the forums and get confused on which edits for which hacks/mods. but i do try to help.

i dont know how many times i have read and read a 68-100 page thread trying to find my answer only to realize i either forgot what i was looking for or so many people posted that i still didn't understand what had been posted. i do not claim to be great at understanding the language. i know html roughly...but i follow directions well if posted appropriately. i also learn by trial and error. if something says this is the main forum...i know that either my code paste will go there or somewhere else. i know what to look for in templates when they state paste anywhere. if i don't get it the first time i will try a different spot. but eventually i will get it where i want it or know where i don't want it.

i do believe that most of the coders here are very fair ( at least from the forums i have seen and the hacks i have installed). heck andrewd just came to my forum and fixed a problem for me on his own time. i mean heck that is above and beyond what i expected. i thought for sure i would get the response i did something wrong or put this here and do this and upload that. which i would have been extremely happy with in itself.

i will say that i am not really happy with the fact that someone releases a hack/mod on here in a free forum...then leaves something out and redirects you to their personal forum and wants to charge you in order to finish the install. that i don't see as being fair or right. maybe it is but obviously i haven't or won't install that mod. i just think that is a tease.

but in all honesty... this thread has brought a lot of insight of these forums to me. it has reclarified somethings that i can do personally to help others who may not understand as much or little as i do. i am not always right and i always say oops my bad here is what you were looking for or here is the right thing you need to do. i take responsibility for what i post.

in essence thanks for bringing this to light. i myself will try to help and point things out to others if i can.

P.S. if your not happy with the search fuction on this site, just go to some larger sites 1,000,000 plus member and try searching for a spasific phrase or item there, after that you may apperciate what you can find here..

:)

i just want to say that i have googled searches and lwt me tell you from my experience...vb.org has the best support even if it is rude at times...eventually you have someone that will be helpful to your post even if it is 3 pages later. i might suggest that people use the thread tools and subscribe to the thread they posted in. i have 17 subscriptions and every time a post goes up i am notified. if i posted a question then i go back and read the recent posts in hopes that someone has given me advice. just a suggestion.

Clayton

04-08-2006, 12:59 PM

vb.org has the best support even if it is rude at times

agreed ... we just hope it continues

dazzlin

04-08-2006, 02:11 PM

Wow, after reading this thread, I'm not sure what to think.

I'm a programmer, but not a php programmer. I can usually figure out the basics of what a php program is doing, and can sometimes modify it a little, but not much beyond that.

I've been a mod at vb boards for a few years, but that still leaves me clueless on actually being the owner/admin of a board.

I bought vb because I'd heard how great it was. Only after the purchase, did I realize that it was VERY complex, and difficult to deal with. Trying to figure out even where a template was located was a huge learning curve (and I'm still in the learning curve).

The title of vbulletin.org says "The Ultimate VBulletin Resource". It doesn't say, "only for hack support".

I was under the impression that this was a place to come to get help with vbulletin of any kind. Apparently, I was mistaken. From the responses here, I should only be here if I want help with a hack, and I should go back to the official site for everything else. If true, perhaps that should be made much more clear.

I'm on forums all the time, and generally, they are there for "free support", with possibly a paid section when needed. The basic premise of most support-type forums is for users to help each other. And yes, that includes many newbies who are either clueless about forum etiquette in general, or clueless about almost anything.

Being a mod for many years, I know it's annoying when people don't ask questions intelligently, or don't search first, etc. But that's just the way it is. It's a fact of forum life.

I've searched many times here, and rarely find the answer I'm looking for. Or if I do, it usually took me an hour or so to do so. In the meantime, I may be panicking because something is broken.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, after reading this thread, I'm not sure how I feel. Part of me feels put off, as though I shouldn't expect much help here. Part of me feels sympathetic to those who offer their help to newbies time and again. Part of me feels put down because I "dared" to become a vbulletin admin without having prior experience.

Don't know what else to say. I'll certainly be very cautious before asking for help here in the future.

Tyegurl

04-08-2006, 02:35 PM

don't be cautious lol ask for help when needed and where needed. what's the worst that can happen? you get ignored or you get told off right? no big deal to me! i just shrug it off and continue searching and hoping someone can help me eventually. vb.com has great support also for hack problems if you state it the right way. give them your error instead of telling them what you did and let them sort it out or tell you what the error is. then when you come here and post you know what you are looking for! at least that is what i have done in the past...then again its only dealt with sql errors that i have so maybe i am wrong in saying that.

pcoskat

04-08-2006, 03:41 PM

I can also say that things have changed. I feel that most of the problems I have seen stem from new users not reading anything. They tend to just post questions wherever they want.
I run a very large forum, and it would be silly of me to blame 'problems' on users who are new to the forum. On large boards, it's often hard to see where certain posts should go.

That's where SITE STAFF come into play. A large board should have mods who regularly and POLITELY police their forums. Ie: Moving threads to more appropriate forums, posting links to threads that will answer a question that has already been asked.

Animosity towards newbies is not only silly, it's a good way to kill a forum. Plus is demonstrates a lack of professionalism, imo.

I myself am tired of visiting the site only to see "new releases" that are nothing more than some user posting a question as a release. It completely defeats the purpose of having a forum structure when the new users aren't using it.
Volunteer to be a moderator
Create a post with 'quick links' to frequently asked questions, and ask the current mods to make it a sticky
Stop visiting this site
Create your own community and see if you can do it 'better'

Threads being posted in the wrong forums is so frequent now, I decided to just add my response in my signature. Its THAT frequent and THAT annoying.
Not as annoying, as whining posts like ^that^.

While I agree that there are problems here...they aren't the ones you've voiced.

As with any site, as it grows, the site owners need to re-evaluate how the site is navigated, and how to serve it's members - which NOW fall into two subsets: Old Timers and Newbies.

One way around this is 'FAQ Quick link' threads which are stickies at the top of each forum. This solved a LOT of our problems at my board.

When a newbie comes in, and asks a question that has been asked a billion times, a mod can just say: check here (with a link to the quick links)

Another solution is to re-evaluate the board structure

Lastly...a good set of mods who are patient, vigilant, polite, and don't get their panties in a wad over people not using search.

Me? I can deal with all of the 'problems' if I could just get 3 or 4 master coders to call on when I need mods created and installed. Seriously: If you're good, reliable, PM me. I pay fair rates via paypal, and always have a ton of stuff to be done.

gothicuser

04-08-2006, 04:16 PM

Clayton

04-08-2006, 04:39 PM

And less than a mile from where I was born and dragged up.. :D

Liscarrol ???

:D

######################

some good points pcoskat

often people forget how easy it is to simply be courteous

New users however could also take a few tips and search first and if they not successful mention in their post that they have tried and would now like assistance. In the same way people being helped could also be a little more thankful so that it encourages a better community spirit of 'help'

C

Tyegurl

04-08-2006, 04:52 PM

i agree myself...whats that the golden rule lmfao.......but very true. treat others the way you want to be treated cuz one day you might find yourself in need of their assistance.

pcoskat

04-08-2006, 05:12 PM

New users however could also take a few tips and search first and if they not successful mention in their post that they have tried and would now like assistance.
I don't think that's needed, especially since it's just to soothe the 'old timer' souls...

Most newbies aren't posting a question that's been asked before out of spite.

That's why it's silly for members to repond with venom or post 'shouts' in their sigs.

If it's THAT much of a problem, start a Newbie Forum (that's what I did at my site.)

In it, we have TONS of stickies with info on how to navigate the site, links to FAQ's, and site manners.

It STILL doesn't stop the newbie FAQ's, but now the mods and other members can just respond with 'see this post'.

EXACTLY!!!
It really gets on my nerves to see a forum admin that doesn't know how to upload a file or some basic HTML. How do they expect to succeed then??
^This^ post is a perfect example of 'unfriendly' - not to mention, it also demonstrates a gross understanding of why/how some people acquire vB licenses...AND what it takes to be a so-called 'success'.

A good CEO(admin) doesn't handle everything in their company, nor do they need to know how to do it. Among other things, they need to know where the smart, proficient, and courteous experts are.

I run a farily large forum, and I don't know how to upload files - nor do I plan on learning. My focus is on the content and overall experience for the end user.

While some people who have responded to this thread call themselves master coders, their level of business savvy and maturity is lacking.

Come to think of it, what would be GREAT is if someone would launch a site for vB professionals...

It would have:

- A directory of professional mod coders for hire*
- A directory of professional skin coders for hire*
- A directory of professional admin help (for things like back ups, and optimization)*
- A directory of professional skin designers*
- A well-orgzanized directory of mods/add-ons

I'd start it myself, but I don't know enough professionals in these areas. That said, I'd be a frequent customer...I ALWAYS need service providers.

*No, I don't want to use 'rent a coder' for these services. I'm speaking of a service that only caters to vBulletin users & service providers.

I don't want to sound arrogant, but:

Users who post questions are licensed Jelsoft customers. This means they are forum admins. At least I expect that a forum admin does know the basics of forum software - and searching is a basic function.
Also, I would think that total newbies don't come to vBulletin.org - they go to vBulletin.com.
Theoretically, only "advanced users" who need/want more than the standard functionality of vBulletin would come to vBulletin.org.

It didn't sound arrogant. Just misguided about the user base of the vBulletin application.

Stick to coding. :)

ETA
(Oh, geez...now I'm starting to get cranky, too :( )

peterska2

04-08-2006, 05:35 PM

Another $0.02 from me here (I told you this thread was getting expensive)

I've not been around for a bit, and on easing myself back in again I have noticed that a few of the regulars have disappeared. Is this co-incidence?

BTW, it is nice to see 3.5.4 here now, but I was quite happy with 3.0.7 too, so that really wasn't worth all the complaining because the upgrade didn't happen overnight.

IMO, there are problems here simply because there are people who have been using vB that long that they have completely forgotton what it is like to be a newbie.

It is great that there are people who can rattle off code mods and plugins really fast because they are that comfortable with the code and have used it that long that they know every single function practically off by heart.

It's great that designers are finally recognised, but, speaking soley for myself, writing any code based stuff at all can take hours - if not weeks. Why? Because designing generally doesn't involve touching the php code. Saying that though, I can help where it's something within my knowledge.

With any site that has been around a while, there are always the ones who know the ins and outs of everything to do with it (including modifying it here), but there has to be the new users. This is where a lot of understanding and patience has to come in from the 'old-timers'. Getting frustrated because someone isn't sure what someting means doesn't help, it just causes bad feelings.

It's the bad feelings that are getting to me. Over the last couple of months I have actually considered on numerous occassions removing all my mods from here. I've not been in a position to support them, and have had loads of PM's and emails asking for help with them. Despite putting a notice in my sig and unchecking the supported boxes everywhere, the questions are still coming in. I write my mods then quite often get someone else to have a go at installing them on my test board. I get someone who knows nothing at all about vB to install them simply by following the instructions I give in the install file. I'll help with things like finding the style manager and how to get into the template to edit it, but apart from that I leave them to it. If they can install it, then it's suitable for release.

Generally speaking, I have lots of patience and will help anyone I can. If it's a php question that's been unanswered a while, I'll have a go. I always say that I'm not strong in php and that my solution may not work, but I try. Often someone else then comes along and i my solution is incorrect they will post a correct one. I don't get offended by this, I try and learn something new from it.

One thing that I notice more and more, is that if I ask a question I get answered with things like 'you should know that' and 'search for it'. Now being as I am always answering other peoples questions using search and 9/10 times know the exact terms to search by, I can find this quite insulting. I never profess to being a php coder, so when my questions are php related, I should be able to get an answer and not a page of insults.

I've got to the point where it is quicker and easier to get one of my site staff who is linked with my licence to ask the question for me even though they don't have a clue what they are actually asking. It really is a bad state of affairs when it gets to that stage.

I'm in the limbo period at the moment where support for any of my stuff is practically non existant as I will be moving the support elsewhere simply because I don't apprecaite being told that my work isn't good enough. If it wasn't liked, no-one would have installed it so I wouldn't have wrote anything else. I'm all for feedback, and appreciate constructive criticism, but ripping into someone and giveing a load of abuse is completely unprofessional.

Thats my $0.02 (even if it has taken an hour to do it coz the phone keeps ringing) and hopefully my last words on the subject.

At the end of the day, we are nearly all admins, and we all started out not knowing anything at all. Some people don't even know HTML when they
first start out. I was one of these people. This isn't anyones fault, it's just that people know different things and learn others as they go along.

Clayton

04-08-2006, 05:58 PM

I don't think that's needed, especially since it's just to soothe the 'old timer' souls...I don't think that's needed, especially since it's just to soothe the 'old timer' souls...

Most newbies aren't posting a question that's been asked before out of spite.

I have to disagree .. there may be a clique that forms where 'old timer' souls might occur .. however often you get the impression that some 'newbies' want everything on a plate ... it is almost expected

No one is being paid to assist people and therefore it wouldn't hurt for newbies to exercise a little self help.

Courteous behaviour from both sides goes a long way

and yes .. some people in this thread have certainly shown a great deal of how it shouldn't be done.

I still think vB.org is a helpful site, it can be quite daunting however it is also an asset to any prospective forum admin

#1 tip ... before you start use the search

I run and maintain a few forums and my experience comes from assisting others to run their own forums and often when they start off they want it to be all given on a plate. We set-up practise forums and throw them in on the deep end .. when they ask a question we say go to vB.org or vB.com and use search for your answer ... or simply provide a link to the vB.org or vB.com thread which I would get by using SEARCH

almost everything has been hashed up at least once on these forums .. if you cant find it in search then ask .. becoming self reliant is a bliss

Thanks

C
ps.. by the way I am still a long long way from being self reliant .. so I still need to use the search ;)

pcoskat

04-08-2006, 06:12 PM

I have to disagree .. there may be a clique that forms where 'old timer' souls might occur .. however often you get the impression that some 'newbies' want everything on a plate ... it is almost expected

No one is being paid to assist people and therefore it wouldn't hurt for newbies to exercise a little self help.

Courteous behaviour from both sides goes a long way
I guess you're right if you feel that every time someone neglects to put the obligatory 'yes I've used the search', that they are not being courteous. *shrugs*

I agree that some people want things handed to them, but I still feel that most newbies aren't trying to be discourteous (as you suggest.) I would also go a step further and say that it's this jaded view of newbies which is adding to the 'bad air' around here.

What would be more helpful for everyone is if people could stop whining about the 'problem of the newbies' and the 'know nothings', and offer some REALISTIC and CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions as to how the admins of this site could rectify the problems.

Asking newbies to put 'yes i used the search' is an 'idealistic' suggestion that doesn't constructively address the problems/issues facing this or any other large site.

I know exactly where the search function is, and how to use it...sometimes I can't FIND what I'm looking for, and I get tired reading 'search result' posts from other people asking the same question with responses that say: use the search function.

Clayton

04-08-2006, 06:16 PM

semantics pcoskat

and I think that you are now showing the arrogance others have displayed in this thread.

I shant further indulge your ego in the matter

Thank you

C

pcoskat

04-08-2006, 06:20 PM

semantics pcoskat

and I think that you are now showing the arrogance others have displayed in this thread.

I shant further indulge your ego in the matter

Thank you

C
*shrugs* whatever.

don't be cautious lol ask for help when needed and where needed. what's the worst that can happen? you get ignored or you get told off right? no big deal to me! i just shrug it off and continue searching and hoping someone can help me eventually.
You are correct.

Despite the youth, immaturity, and anger management issues of a handful of 'regulars', there is still good information to be had here, and vB.org is still a helpful and unique resource.

...still would be great if there were a professional directory, however, for those who just want to pay for help. (Not all of us are newbies who want everything handed to us on a plate. Some admins actually have a budget, and are looking to hire.)

peterska2

04-08-2006, 06:22 PM

...still would be great if there were a professional directory, however, for those who just want to pay for help. (Not all of us are newbies who want everything handed to us on a plate. We have a budget, and are looking to hire.)

There was a discussion about this in January, but the outcome still hasn't been announced.

pcoskat

04-08-2006, 06:23 PM

There was a discussion about this in January, but the outcome still hasn't been announced.
Now THAT'S a constructive post!!:banana:
Is there anyone I can 'nudge' about this??

peterska2

04-08-2006, 06:33 PM

Now THAT'S a constructive post!!:banana:
Is there anyone I can 'nudge' about this??

That would be Jelsoft. If I remember correctly, it was Wayne who started the proposal for a commercial directory. It could have been Steve, but I'm 90% sure it was Wayne.

* peterska2 goes to look

Yes, it was Wayne.

There isn't a copy of it available to view, the only reason I have a copy is because I saved a copy of the thread in it's early days. It only existed for a month before they took the details and opinions of the users here to review and discuss.

pcoskat

04-08-2006, 06:38 PM

Yes, it was Wayne.
Love Wayne! We bump into each other from time to time on boards...he's da man!!

I really hope this comes to pass! There's a lot of money to be had for smart, proficient, professional vbulletin coders.

Freesteyelz

04-08-2006, 09:08 PM

It's great that designers are finally recognised, but, speaking soley for myself, writing any code based stuff at all can take hours - if not weeks. Why? Because designing generally doesn't involve touching the php code. Saying that though, I can help where it's something within my knowledge.

I have great respect for coders so I won't compare them with designers; they go hand-in-hand, really. I can say from my experience that I've spent long hours, weeks and months working on designs. For just a hobby staring at the computer 16 hours straight and having a design completed only after 5 months by no means can be achieved without patience, tolerance and a bit of humor.

With all things relative I know coders who can't design and designers who can't code, let alone manipulate a code. At a hobby or professional level, there is an art to what we do. I agree that with the knowledge we have helping others is what makes this community successful. Support is never easy and in retrospect it can be an art as well.

Paul M

04-08-2006, 09:16 PM

With all things relative I know coders who can't design and designers who can't codeI'm one of them - I know just about enough simple html to get by, and that's it, I could never design and build a style.

imported_infitech

04-08-2006, 11:27 PM

I might not have read all 12 pages of this thread, but from what I have read I can come up with a suggestion that may or may not have been suggested before. VB can assign a team of moderators or admins to look at unanswered posts and if these posts have been answered in another thread, direct the member to that thread. This would be that moderators sole purpose as a moderator.

Freesteyelz

04-08-2006, 11:47 PM

I think that it was discussed several times before, including in this thread. While it's a good suggestion I'm wondering how well it will work out since the time spent here is by voluntary basis.

peterska2

04-09-2006, 12:41 AM

Now if vB were gonna pay me, I'd do that no problem at all. But voluntary? No chance, I've got enough stuff to do for free without having to fit anything else in.

pcoskat

04-09-2006, 12:49 AM

I'm one of them - I know just about enough simple html to get by, and that's it, I could never design and build a style.
I can't do either. Concept, marketing, and PR are my strengths.

I have no desire to learn coding or designing...once those two things are completed, that's when I get busy.

Too bad there's no PR section of this site. That's where I'd most be able to actually contribute something of true value.

gavinzac

04-09-2006, 01:18 AM

Cap'n Steve

04-09-2006, 05:43 PM

A good CEO(admin) doesn't handle everything in their company, nor do they need to know how to do it. Among other things, they need to know where the smart, proficient, and courteous experts are.

I run a farily large forum, and I don't know how to upload files - nor do I plan on learning. My focus is on the content and overall experience for the end user.

No offense, but why are you here then? Wouldn't it make more sense to send the guy who does know how to upload files? There must be someone, since vBulletin got installed somehow.

gavinzac

04-09-2006, 05:53 PM

No offense, but why are you here then?
to scope out potential new features? the code is just HOW we get the new features. code for code's sake would be pretty dilly. if he sees ebux or something and thinks, wow that be great for the forum, THEN the code guy comes in.

CSS59

04-09-2006, 05:57 PM

These are the growing pains of a community this big.

More people + More people not using search + More threads posted asking a question that's been answered already = less accurate search results.

agreed!

pcoskat

04-09-2006, 06:09 PM

ZombieAndy

04-09-2006, 06:39 PM

my thoughts on this are pretty much the same as what alot of you have said.

i like to think of myself as a trainee coder. im no PHP expert and i do get stuck on things. but im learning by playing with code :)

i do occassionally ask questions, but i always use search before i ask anything, as i know how annoying it is to have hundreds of topics asking about stuff which could be answered by searching, but anyway. even when i have a genuine question, which i cant answer by searching it often gets ignored. this really annoys me and to be honest does put me off this community guys.

Freesteyelz

04-09-2006, 10:00 PM

On the flipside the unanswered threads could also mean that whoever dropped by may not know the solution.

Smitty

04-09-2006, 11:52 PM

VB can assign a team of moderators or admins to look at unanswered posts and if these posts have been answered in another thread, direct the member to that thread. This would be that moderators sole purpose as a moderator.
I don't know about every unanswered post, but for 0 Reply threads I use http://xxx.com/forum/search.php?do=process&replyless=1&replylimit=0&dontcache=1

It's a quick search.

On the flipside the unanswered threads could also mean that whoever dropped by may not know the solution.

Unanswered threads are a turnoff to visitors. If you want people coming back, and RECOMMENDING your forum to others, at least SOME response, even to say "Sorry no one has replied, let's give it a day or two. I apologise in advance, but sometimes no one has an answer for your question. We do our best." I bump threads that get no response. Sometimes the thread is dead because no one does have an answer, but at least the person who asked (started the thread) doesn't feel 'abandoned', or worse, ignored.

Just my opinion.

southernlady

04-10-2006, 12:33 AM

I've installed codes where the coder was very helpful in answering my questions. Even when it was MY screwup in following his directions. And not just once but several times.

And then there is the flip side where I read the entire thread of a coder's install trying to find the answer, not once but 5 times, making sure I didn't miss it. Posted a question about why part of the code didn't work the way it was suppose to work and have yet to get an answer. My post is still being ignored over 3 months later. Yet, at the same time, that coder has answered over 10 more pages since.

Coders come in all flavors. The ones that help and the ones that don't...you eventually learn who is who and avoid the hacks of the ones who don't help. Liz

Tyegurl

04-10-2006, 12:40 AM

sometimes i think they answer the more serious questions first and then forget about the others because they get so invloved in the others. i have seen about 3 coders who go through and quote every single new question in a new post and answer...i thought that was very personal on their part. that way you weren't stuck in the middle. but even then i saw some people had gotten left out with their answers....i don't know but i don't take it personally. i figure if i had the problem and i posted about it then most likely someone else will eventually have the same problem or it will be fixed and i will wait.

Smitty

04-10-2006, 01:15 AM

And then there is the flip side where I read the entire thread of a coder's install trying to find the answer, not once but 5 times, making sure I didn't miss it. Posted a question about why part of the code didn't work the way it was suppose to work and have yet to get an answer. My post is still being ignored over 3 months later.
Yes. I 'feel your pain'. I take it as a factor that most of everything here is essentially donated so there is not much incentive for a 'hack' developer to respond. Now and again I have even offered to pay. I have paid for several hacks to be updated by a 'third party' because I used them a lot and the person who posted the hack here had abandoned them.

If you don't get reply for 3 months, that should tell you not to depend upon that hack's originator. I'm not a coder, but usually a hack upgrade costs me about US$50 to US$100.

I make pretty good money on my forum so the two 'critical' hacks I need which were abandoned are important to me because my visitors are important to me.

Personally, I'm waiting for a good statistics hack. I would like it if VBStatExtended: advanced statistics for your board was debugged and current. I'd pay. If pcfreak would finish (or whatever) I'd pay US$1000 for vB Statistic version 3.0.0 (directors Cut *g*). But - both are, while not totally abandoned, 'static'.

But like I say, for many people who submit hacks, since it's essentially a donation to the community, I can understand why they 'abandon' them and/or do not respond. I can't complain when they're free.

Just a few thoughts.

southernlady

04-10-2006, 01:24 AM

If you don't get reply for 3 months, that should tell you not to depend upon that hack's originator.

It would be different if the coder in question was ignoring the thread but that coder IS answering other questions on the thread.

It's a hack that I really would like to have but I'll be the first to admit, I AM NOT a coder...that's why I come HERE. Like Paul mentioned earlier in the thread, he's codes but doesn't design, I design but don't code. Liz

Smitty

04-10-2006, 01:52 AM

It would be different if the coder in question was ignoring the thread but that coder IS answering other questions on the thread.
You are correct - I ammend my post to reflect the instance of 1 post in a long thread. I do see that very often. I see it in my forum. In an active forum, I do not see any way, short of paying people to monitor every thread, to ensure every individual post is replied to. But again, most of this has to do with folks donating their 'hack'. I know on my forums I'm definitely not an expert in every subject / topic so I significantly depend upon moderators to answer questions/reply. My forum is relatively low volume. In a high volume forum this will be a significant problem short of paying people to 'police' threads to ensure every post is replied to. I hesitate to use the term 'impossible', which is why I say you'd have to pay someone (or more than 1 person) to 'police' every thread at last daily.

Code Monkey

04-10-2006, 02:13 AM

It would be different if the coder in question was ignoring the thread but that coder IS answering other questions on the thread.

It's a hack that I really would like to have but I'll be the first to admit, I AM NOT a coder...that's why I come HERE. Like Paul mentioned earlier in the thread, he's codes but doesn't design, I design but don't code. Liz

Many coders will not respond if they don't see that you have clicked the install button.

Smitty

04-10-2006, 02:31 AM

Many coders will not respond if they don't see that you have clicked the install button.
I recently downloaded a hack and installed it. I tested it and it didn't work. As I read back through the thread others had the same problem I di and no response from the coder. So - I uninstalled it. I didn't click the install button because it didn't work.

However, my point remains - These are Free Hacks. I have no real complaint if no one answers because I have no $ investment.

southernlady

04-10-2006, 02:33 AM

Many coders will not respond if they don't see that you have clicked the install button.

And what if you have? And are still ignored? Liz

Cap'n Steve

04-10-2006, 03:48 AM

to scope out potential new features? the code is just HOW we get the new features. code for code's sake would be pretty dilly. if he sees ebux or something and thinks, wow that be great for the forum, THEN the code guy comes in.

That's fine if you have the code guy asking the questions, but that's not what people are complaining about. If you're the one asking for support for a hack, you should probably be the person who installed vBulletin or at least knows their way around administering it.

Freesteyelz

04-10-2006, 03:57 AM

There seem to be two discussions here. Allow me to explain...

If I release a mod to the public (2 so far :classic: ) I'll support it the best that I can. I feel that I have an obligation to those who use it. It is not only my mod but my reputation on the line.

The threads in the question forums I'll sift through and answer the ones I think will work. I've only been a part of the vB community for two months and it would be quite irresponsible of me if I send someone on a wrong path just because I wanted to help but had nothing to back it up. Mistakes will happen of course but that's life. So if I reply to to a thread I'll go back with intent until the problem has been resolved or if I run out of suggestions.

There are many who'll search and try to find the answers on their own before asking their question(s). There are those who are not as resourceful and will ask immediately. My guess is that many contributers are turned off by the latter group.

I strongly believe in the "pay it forward" concept in that if you've received help then you help others. As huge as this community is with all of the personalities I think overall the people here practice that concept. They seem to enjoy what they do and are happy to help. Their time is on a voluntary basis and that says a lot. I think there's a good thing going on here and I'm glad to be a part of it. :)

Paul M

04-10-2006, 08:00 AM

Darat

04-10-2006, 08:08 AM

I've probably mentioned this before but I think part of the reason some newbies find it hard to find the required answers is how long some threads become and especially because the same thread will cover different versions of the same hack - so an earlier bug may have been fixed in a later version but you have to read through all of the thread to work that out. (I've done this myself - read through a long thread, missed one particular post that addressed the problem I had and have to be pointed back to the original answer - that's not laziness it's just in an 18 page thread you do tend to miss things!)

I suggested it before but perhaps allow the hack poster to mark posts as "answered" or somehow otherwise collapse all the responses to previous versions.

Or perhaps have it so that each new version of a hack starts a new "sub thread"? That way people only need to read through the content that is relevant to the current release?

imported_infitech

04-10-2006, 08:11 AM

pcoskat

04-10-2006, 11:29 AM

That's fine if you have the code guy asking the questions, but that's not what people are complaining about. If you're the one asking for support for a hack, you should probably be the person who installed vBulletin or at least knows their way around administering it.
Where are you coming up with these silly rules?:cross-eyed:
(Rhetorical question...)

I honestly think a LOT of these problems will be resolved when/if Wayne gets that professional directory up and running.

Many of the people here creating hacks are quite young (and quite brilliant, apparently)...but young people have school, and other 'interests' that distract from 'supporting' a hack. I don't have any issues with that at all. (in fact, I'm always impressed when I see a coder is 16 or 17...very impressed.)

On the other hand, there are a lot of people who visit this site who are admins (not 'techie' admins, but admins, none-the-less) who are looking for certain board add-ons to enhance their member's site experience.

These types of admins don't care to follow the development of a mod, they don't want to crawl through code, they want to know that it works, and then find someone to install it. (These types of admins fall into two camps: Those who want things for free, and those who have a budget and are willing to pay for assistance.)

A professional directory community would be very helpful to the latter camp, and could prove to be quite lucrative to the experienced coder.

Tyegurl

04-10-2006, 12:19 PM

Many coders will not respond if they don't see that you have clicked the install button.

can i add that the install button is great but the idea flawed. IMO you should only click install once the code is up an running. You should not click the install button if you still get errors. I just don't see the sense in that. It's not installed if it has errors...I don't know just seems odd the way people use it.

gothicuser

04-10-2006, 12:43 PM

amykhar

04-10-2006, 01:05 PM

can i add that the install button is great but the idea flawed. IMO you should only click install once the code is up an running. You should not click the install button if you still get errors. I just don't see the sense in that. It's not installed if it has errors...I don't know just seems odd the way people use it.
Amen! Nothing drives me battier then to relesase a mod, have 12 people click install and say great job and then have somebody come along and point out an error in the install instructions that means nobody could possibly have it working.

Then, people come along and see 'great job' and several installs, assume it's working and try to install it before things are fixed.

I don't count how many 'installs' I have. It's a meaningless number. What I much prefer is to see a mod in action on a user's site. It's much more fun to see mods I create making a difference for somebody.

As far as support goes, I try to help when time permits, but I ignore duplicate questions and problematic users. I had somebody plagiarize a chunk of content off my site once and then have the nerve to get miffed when I wouldn't support her when she broke something. She's been grumping about lack of support ever since and all I can do is shake my head in wonder at some people's nerve.

Freesteyelz

04-10-2006, 09:53 PM

I think gothicuser has a good point. I've always went about it that clicking the "Install" link meant that I was a satisfied user, regardless of any flaws that may have existed to the mod. I also know too that there are others who'll jump on a mod at first glance, just because it's the in-thing to do, click the Install link without first testing it thoroughly. That's the way it is.

Cap'n Steve

04-11-2006, 05:32 AM

Where are you coming up with these silly rules?:cross-eyed:
(Rhetorical question...)

I don't care if it is a rhetorical question. Why on Earth is it silly to expect that people asking technical questions will understand the technical answers? If you didn't install vBulletin, why would you install hacks for it?

pcoskat

04-11-2006, 10:28 AM

I don't care if it is a rhetorical question. Why on Earth is it silly to expect that people asking technical questions will understand the technical answers? If you didn't install vBulletin, why would you install hacks for it?
This is as silly as asking someone 'why on earth' they would buy a car if they don't know how to perform their own tune ups...

The bottom line is, "I have several sites which run vBulletin, and I have certain needs for them." I'm sorry if you don't understand that. I have no plans to explain my reasons or needs to you.

Respond to me, if you wish, but as soon as I hit 'reply', I'll also be hitting IGNORE.

davidw

04-11-2006, 10:42 AM

For the most part, its really easy to install vbulletin. They made it that way on purpose. Common sense.

On the hack side, I still stand behind what I said months ago. And to add to that - people who buy vb don't automatically come with a Bachelor's in PHP and vBscript.

pcoskat

04-11-2006, 11:01 AM

For the most part, its really easy to install vbulletin. They made it that way on purpose. Common sense.

I'm sure. If I 'needed' to learn, I would. :)

On the hack side, I still stand behind what I said months ago. And to add to that - people who buy vb don't automatically come with a Bachelor's in PHP and vBscript.
For real.;)

Anyway, I hope this thread can get off of the 'hijacked' topic of, "why on earth do you even have vBulletin if you can't write and/or install hacks", and back on constructive ideas for improving vb.org.

Serial Killer

04-11-2006, 11:09 AM

People need to get into the habit of asking questions as a last resort. The best way to get an understanding of what a hack does and how it affects the vBulletin script is to read through the thread from start to finish.

I personally do not install any hack until I have read about what it does/in what ways it can screw up your system.

Read read read

Paul M

04-11-2006, 05:13 PM

This is as silly as asking someone 'why on earth' they would buy a car if they don't know how to perform their own tune ups...However, if you don't know how to tune up a car, you take it to someone who does, you don't try and do it yourself, and then start asking technical questions you're not going to understand the answers to.

If you want to alter your plumbing and you don't know what you are doing, you get a plumber to do it, If you want to do some electrical work you don't know what you are doing, you get a electrician to do it - the same applies here - If you want to start altering code by installing hacks then you should know what you are doing - if you don't - ask someone who does to do it for you - perhaps even start learning by being with them as they do it.

Respond to me, if you wish, but as soon as I hit 'reply', I'll also be hitting IGNORE.You may respond to me, I won't have you on ignore. :)

pcoskat

04-11-2006, 05:35 PM

However, if you don't know how to tune up a car, you take it to someone who does, you don't try and do it yourself, and then start asking technical questions you're not going to understand the answers to.

Exactly, I don't try to do it myself. I know the 'end result' I need, and I look for the technical experts who can handle it.

If you want to start altering code by installing hacks then you should know what you are doing - if you don't - ask someone who does to do it for you
Precisely. (emphasis mine). I'll add 'ask' or 'hire' someone to do it for you (but the pros 'for hire' are few and far between. Hopefully Wayne Luke's directory will solve this problem.)

...perhaps even start learning by being with them as they do it.
I'll pass. My plate is full enough. :)

You may respond to me, I won't have you on ignore. :)
hehe ;)

Freesteyelz

04-11-2006, 11:19 PM

Heck, if it were easy what's the point? :D

imported_infitech

04-11-2006, 11:33 PM

Amen! Nothing drives me battier then to relesase a mod, have 12 people click install and say great job and then have somebody come along and point out an error in the install instructions that means nobody could possibly have it working.

Then, people come along and see 'great job' and several installs, assume it's working and try to install it before things are fixed.

I don't count how many 'installs' I have. It's a meaningless number. What I much prefer is to see a mod in action on a user's site. It's much more fun to see mods I create making a difference for somebody.

As far as support goes, I try to help when time permits, but I ignore duplicate questions and problematic users. I had somebody plagiarize a chunk of content off my site once and then have the nerve to get miffed when I wouldn't support her when she broke something. She's been grumping about lack of support ever since and all I can do is shake my head in wonder at some people's nerve.

I think what I would like to see are mods in a tentative or beta release status until ALL or the majority of the bugs it has are fully resolved. Then - and only then will these mods be featured in the FULL release forums.

pcoskat

04-12-2006, 12:35 AM

I think what I would like to see are mods in a tentative or beta release status until ALL or the majority of the bugs it has are fully resolved. Then - and only then will these mods be featured in the FULL release forums.
You and me, both!

Often times, the mods listed as full releases have so many bugs and issues I wonder why they aren't still in beta.

PennylessZ28

04-12-2006, 01:17 AM

The fact that this is still going shows where it's going wrong.

People want to keep digging up the past. Lets start fresh and move forward. Stop bickering with each other.

pcoskat

04-12-2006, 01:32 AM

The fact that this is still going shows where it's going wrong.

People want to keep digging up the past. Lets start fresh and move forward. Stop bickering with each other.
We had. See the posts directly above yours.

EricaJoy

04-12-2006, 01:35 AM

People need to get into the habit of asking questions as a last resort. The best way to get an understanding of what a hack does and how it affects the vBulletin script is to read through the thread from start to finish.I disagree. Some threads for the more popular hacks are so long its not feasible to read through the whole thing. I agree with the notion that a method of marking each bug/issue as resolved would be useful.

Freesteyelz

04-12-2006, 01:43 AM

Hmm. This may be a silly question but is there such thing as a "bug" in coding? The way I see it, codes behave as intended. Though, maybe not as the coder had intended. LOL.

pcoskat

04-12-2006, 01:57 AM

The way I see it, codes behave as intended.
Correction: Codes behave as written...not necessarily as intended ;)

Freesteyelz

04-12-2006, 01:59 AM

You've missed the next sentence:

Though, maybe not as the coder had intended.

So my statement stands until proven otherwise. :D

Edit: Hmm...

Edit Twice Over: Now when I think about it...

pcoskat

04-12-2006, 02:08 AM

You've missed the next sentence:
No I didn't...The second sentence doesn't make the first one correct. :)

Freesteyelz

04-12-2006, 02:13 AM

True. I would use the lack of the english language as an excuse but since it's my primary language I'll just have to divert the attention that ---> way. *Whistles into the sunset...* :)

Corriewf

04-12-2006, 02:24 AM

Freesteyelz

04-12-2006, 02:41 AM

*Crafts up the "Divert The Attention" mod*

MThornback

04-12-2006, 03:45 AM

Personally, I like the fact that to a certian degree your left on your own to figure things out....I'm WAAAAYYY behind the bell curve of alot of the coders and designers around here....I can do basic edits and tweaks and manipulate templates more on trial and error than skill....but everything I learned here I did because I wanted to know how they did it...and tried to research it on my own.

IF ANYTHING, I think that more coders and designers should take the time to write out tips/tricks/tutorials than awnser questions that are not specific to learning how to do things....especially when those questions get asked over and over in different ways in different threads....its getting to the point where I know the awnser, but not the pre-text to it. For example, a "what VB uses that isn't your average PHP" kind of tutorial would be useful....cause I have no idea what GPC is...I'd like to...but for the life of me I don't get it....

Basically...what i'm saying (its late forgive the ramble) if a question gets asked a bunch of times...maybe a tutorial that includes the concept might be warranted (thank you to those that do create these already, I know I can't be the only one who appreciates them)....it cuts the legs out from under the lazy, and gives more resources to those willing to learn....more importantly, it makes an 'unwritten rule' more fair, because along with the GREAT Mods this site offers, it will help educate the next generation of VB hackers :)

my 0.02....maybe i'm being idealistic at 1am :p but I think that would put this site over the top for usefulness to a wider audience.

pcoskat

04-12-2006, 10:57 AM

True. I would use the lack of the english language as an excuse but since it's my primary language I'll just have to divert the attention that ---> way. *Whistles into the sunset...* :)
I'll forgive you! Mainly because I'm a picky 'editor-type' who is a writer by trade, ANNNNNND because I'm about to start sweet talkin' you about your site design... Did you do that? FABULOUS! FAB-U-LOUS! (Did I see a 'hire me' link on your site? Must go back and look....)

IF ANYTHING, I think that more coders and designers should take the time to write out tips/tricks/tutorials than awnser questions that are not specific to learning how to do things....especially when those questions get asked over and over in different ways in different threads....
That's a good idea.
Is someone keeping track of these good ideas?

davidw

04-12-2006, 11:58 AM

Creating a tutorial is on my to-do list - but it will be a little bit, due to work circumstances and 3 projects that I need to complete.

Freesteyelz

04-12-2006, 09:53 PM

I'll forgive you! Mainly because I'm a picky 'editor-type' who is a writer by trade, ANNNNNND because I'm about to start sweet talkin' you about your site design... Did you do that? FABULOUS! FAB-U-LOUS! (Did I see a 'hire me' link on your site? Must go back and look....)

Hehe. Yeah, the site is my latest creation far from completion, however. Most likely the project will run me into summer. Ordinarily, I'm a stickler for being XHTML and CSS compliant but I was a bit careless this time around so I'm going over each page in the effort to clean it up.

IF ANYTHING, I think that more coders and designers should take the time to write out tips/tricks/tutorials than awnser questions that are not specific to learning how to do things....especially when those questions get asked over and over in different ways in different threads....

I definitely see myself doing something of that nature in the future.

Rick

10-26-2006, 10:49 PM

Ntfu2

10-27-2006, 04:39 AM

My vB search feature works just fine for us :woot:

Staxed

10-27-2006, 12:39 PM

I found this thread by searching for "staying logged".

If you know anything about Vb you know the search feature sucks. To jump on someone's back because they couldn't find one post out of a million is just BS.

I get on my mods for doing that to our users all the time.

this is a bit off topic, but vb needs a feature for the search that you can click a check box to search the words you type in in a few different ways

search for any of those words (currently how it is...) i can search for "learning how to code" and get a result that's "check out my code"...not much help right now

search for all of those words (that way you can search for direct phrases)...or does this already exist and I just don't know how to use it (likely the case)

ZacUSNYR

10-27-2006, 02:41 PM

Ntfu2

10-27-2006, 03:30 PM

this is a bit off topic, but vb needs a feature for the search that you can click a check box to search the words you type in in a few different ways

search for any of those words (currently how it is...) i can search for "learning how to code" and get a result that's "check out my code"...not much help right now

search for all of those words (that way you can search for direct phrases)...or does this already exist and I just don't know how to use it (likely the case)

When searching use "Search Terms" be sure to include the " and "

Rick

10-27-2006, 05:32 PM

I'm somebody who tries to help out as much as possible - what about when someone posts up a help request, you respond with an additional information question or some help and never hear from the person again?

They may have found the answer on their own and didn't feel the need to get back on the board to announce it...

Ntfu2

10-27-2006, 05:42 PM

Awesome, then by that same logic we who answer questions can assume that they've found the answer on their own as well :cross-eyed:

COBRAws

10-27-2006, 06:08 PM

kall

10-27-2006, 07:40 PM

first off, all posts with "greaaat, installed!" should be deleted, only posts with important information regarding the hacks should be kept.

Also, what I see here, is that A LOT of hacks that were popular in the past, now are paid hacks. SO, you dont know if install this or that hack, because when vb upgrades to a newer version, if you want to keep that hack, you need to pay, and prices dont go cheaper than 50USD in most cases.
I was just about to post a list of 6 Paid vBulletin Modifications that are all under $50 before I realised we don't allow that, so..

Please tell us... without using actual prices, which Modifications that were once available free here are now only available for $50 and over.

big dan

10-27-2006, 09:43 PM

I'll chime in a bit:

I don't post much here, I use other vB help sites to learn things. I normally post when I install a hack.

The reason I don't post much is the same reason why I don't particpate in large communities, you get lost in the sauce to speak. You can post a solution to a problem yet no one will find it because 100 people are asking "How do I?" when you've already posted the fix. Searches are thrown off the by "how to do I" threads.

As for hacks: I think there should be some clear indication of weather they are currently supported or not. AnyMedia is one of the big ones. Everyone is asking questions. Maybe a mod should post on the release part that it's no longer supported. I'm no coder but if I was to release a hack, I'd definetly make sure I have the time to keep supporting. Yes, life does happen but at least give someone else permission to update your code.

Finding answers: It's very true that the "how to I" threads with no answers dilute the search engine results. People not using the search engine is a problem on most if not all forums. I don't see anything the forum staff here could do to make people use the search engine.

Just my .02,
Danny :)