What do you think about Vbulletin vs Xenforo?

[katie hunter]

It is because they didn't test XF enough in term of starting to criticize some of their lack of features, XF founders played with VBulletin members' emotions and anger toward VB 5.x, while ceasing a good opportunity.

1. VB 4.x had issues while later 5.x was not a good release at all with many problems.

2. VB ex developers Kier and Mike left VB after like 9 years and went on making Xenforo and claimed that it is better than VB and creating a forum software the right way.

3. Many Vb members were angry and let down by IB changes and bad management and others looked toward a new hope.

4. Kier and Mike knew that this is their opportunity, they wouldn't need to invest in marketing Xenforo because through working with VB, they made so many fans already and would have followers, so why not just use this chance to enter the forum market.

5. IB saw that what they did is wrong and hurting their sales and initiated a litigation against XF with an x amount of claims. Kier and Mike should have expected this.

6. XF kept their members bashing VB and IB, especially VB 5.x while Mike and Kier kept posting several time about the lawsuit and updated their members with how the court ruled in each motion and how some claims were dismissed while others were not. Later let their moderators update the lawsuit progress, as if everyone know about how the court proceeding is and how discovery works, pretrial preparation and so on.

Vb never has done that, although they could have as well. You have one community such as XF who loved to bash while another like VB who didn't allow it. It is unprofessional especially when you are selling a product.



I remember this huge sticky topic on XF about each and every ruling the court made wherein some were not in favor of XF and it made XF members even questioning how the judge presiding over the case was not fair to XF.

7. Case was settled, although the term of settlement were not revealed and that is usually the standard of any settlement but to date XF haven't stopped from bashing VB to gain new sales. They will run toward any VB customer and try to convenience him or her how wonderful XF is while bashing Vb, especially VB 5.x

They will also claim that it is cheaper but by the time a customer buys XF, he will find himself investing into many addons that are already core default features of vb 4.x and will probably spend anywhere form $400 to $800 just to have all his needed addons in.

Many looked at this from a factual eye and accesses true facts while others simply join the bandwagons.

That is why i shared what XF is all about, do you love to be censored just for stating your opinion about XF? I don't think so.

XF founders have no shame in denying it nor fixed their wrongdoing, they believe in "Lets get rid of those criticizing XF so we can grow better" They didn't think about well we have a member of XF who join Xenforo several years ago and she has a certain view that we should address, respect, and listen to. No, instead, lets bash her, and later restrict her profile so she can't post ; lets censor her and let our staff state lies when a VB topic is brought up http://i.imgur.com/TJGpqQY.png

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....6&postcount=21
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....1&postcount=56

It is wrong to do that. It is wrong to censor critics and it is wrong to allow XF staff to lie and bully members who they might not like. Ashley one of XF Founders, said it is not bully and that XF staff has the right to address a member of the community.

What bully is to find that a member's comments are censored through moderation and deleted later so it doesn't appear publicly, while allowing a XF Staff to spread lie for the sake of sales for XF http://i.imgur.com/TJGpqQY.png



It is surprising that these same XF Staff and founders where whining and appealing to us for almost 2 years that they were always the good guys and the ones who were prejudiced and better than VB and many were drawn into this drama that should have stayed private from the start.

XF was certainly arrogant and lacked good principles, and clearly didn't think about my contribution in the past and only looks at sales # by saying "ok this member didn't buy XF yet, she i no good for us because she criticized XF" the correct path should have been "We've made a mistake by restricting her profile, we should alter this action and allow her to post without moderation because we see that she is interested in XF and might a year later buy it and bring yet another big community to appreciate our product"

It is my choice to wait and see how XF will change, just like it is my choice for waiting to see how VB 5.x will change later.

I won't blindly support XF without seeing that they improve and listen to members' feedback, another major issue which came up, they actually don't listen to your views, they have a very conservative view and path.

You don't believe me? here is Kier's view http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=78018

vBulletin was born of an age when having more options and more data displayed was a desirable thing. People wanted to be able to control minute details of the way they interacted with a forum - or so we thought.

XenForo is a product that debuts with decades of experience already under its developers' belts, and perhaps a degree more maturity in outlook. Our focus with XenForo is on providing a superior user experience rather than piling on new features. We are more of the opinion now that if we believe there is a right or optimal way to do something, we will just do that, rather than providing options to allow people to do it another way.

Don't you find this vision absurd ? They say they want to provide superior user exp but which lacked in features. Read between the lines and look at what XF did actually, using redactor editor instead of CKeditor. Lacks many of VB default features in the admin panel while giving you a simple system that just does the job without proper control.

Did you actually know that when you soft delete a thread using XF, your staff can't search that thread, it gets deleted from their search engine core whereas in VB you can search for any threads even the soft deleted topics. There are many features and things that XF lacked and they aren't bringing anything new either and they won't.

They are there for business $$, they aren't there to provide you with a better experience.

What i am personally looking for is a company with a unique vision and goals to make the forum market a better place by offering key features which provides a better sharing and communication experience. This is what i am looking for, innovations and new ideas, it is 2014 not 2005. Web developing and Web design is advancing and interactive web design is becoming popular every day.

http://vimeo.com/71187136 I want to see VB moving toward a unique approach. Mike and Kier aren't doing that, they are doing another VB version done their way.

I personally have hopes for VB and only days can prove it. It needs some time and we don't know if IB management will change now or later but certainly no one who invest in a business would love to see it sink. People invest in businesses and buy them for improvements not to see them fail and lose $$

If you're displeased with IB managements, i think the appropriate approach is to start contacting them in 100s and initiate an online petition http://www.change.org/ to tell them what is wrong and how things needs to change and you can only do that if many vb customers get together. I personally think what VB needs is a new set of web developers and web designers to join the current team to bring new ideas, and features to VB like that Feed twitter like feature I proposed earlier.

http://www.internetbrands.com/
http://www.internetbrands.com/contact-us/

Their twitter may be ? https://twitter.com/INETtweets

Their management team ? http://www.internetbrands.com/the-co...anagement.html

Robert N. Brisco
Chief Executive Officer

Scott A. Friedman
Chief Financial Officer

Chuck Hoover
Chief Marketing Officer

Just to name few

http://static.ibsrv.net/ibsite/pdf/2...ges%20Beta.pdf
Contact vBulletin:
Joe Ewaskiw
vBulletin / Internet Brands, Inc.
310-280-4539
joe.ewaskiw@internetbrands.com

[Barcham]

If the founders of XF were former employees at VB, why were they not bound by a non-disclosure/non-competition clause in their contracts? I've been working in the computer business as a hardware specialist for 35 years and such contracts are a standard thing, especially in the software end of the business. If they were bound by such a contract, VB needs better lawyers who would make certain they were enforced. IF they were not bound by such a contract, VB/IB made a serious error and tough luck - deal with it.

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by Barcham

If the founders of XF were former employees at VB, why were they not bound by a non-disclosure/non-competition clause in their contracts? I've been working in the computer business as a hardware specialist for 35 years and such contracts are a standard thing, especially in the software end of the business. If they were bound by such a contract, VB needs better lawyers who would make certain they were enforced. IF they were not bound by such a contract, VB/IB made a serious error and tough luck - deal with it.

Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd sold VB to IB - Internet Brands and this clause in the contract couldn't have not been mentioned in Jelsoft contract. We don't know the terms of their contract.

But yes Kier and Mike use to work for Vb and Kier was the lead developer actually. Just imagine the opportunity they ceased when creating Xenforo, no need for marketing especially when VB 5.x had so many issues. That is why i said they were opportunist, many have missed looking at the entire story from a factual point of view and just bashed VB because of IB miss management of VB 5.x.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBulletin

- On 4 July 2007 Jelsoft announced that Jelsoft had been acquired by Internet Brands, which promised significant investment in software development.

- In 2009, long-time developers Kier Darby, Mike Sullivan, Scott MacVicar and Jeremy Hutchings left the company. Kevin Sours, Don Kuramura, and Ray Morgan took Darby's place as lead developer, product manager, and general manager, respectively

[Gemma]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Huh ?? You quoted a post of Katies, not me.

Sorry to confuse you!

I'm staying out of this post....I realise now that Katie has issues

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by Paul M

Isnt it funny how people do that with vbulletin all the time (go look at TAZ, or the other admin sites) and everyone thinks its fine, but dare to knock XF and its like the end of the world.

Whats good for one is good for another.

It isn't funny at all imo. It's rather tiresome.

What I've noticed in particular though is that the vB dissension is based on what we can most all certainly agree is vBulletin 4 & vBulletin 5 Connect: the failure of the script to live up to license holders' expectations and the failure of Internet Brands to give a damn about the circumstances.

Most XF dissension (as you can see with our dear Katie) is based on what I call irrelevancies: how the XF community is blegh, how the XF moderating team are blegh, how XF developers are opportunists, how her feelings are hurt because of bla bla bla and blegh again.

Let the dissension be about the actual SCRIPTS, not some petty BS that has nothing to do with the scripts.

Yes we know XF is a young script. As such it is not as loaded with bloat as mature scripts like vB or IPB. But there IS vast development taking place.

Unfortunately we cannot say this about vBulletin.

Originally Posted by katie hunter

It is because they didn't test XF enough in term of starting to criticize some of their lack of features, XF founders played with VBulletin members' emotions and anger toward VB 5.x, while ceasing a good opportunity.

1. VB 4.x had issues while later 5.x was not a good release at all with many problems.

2. VB ex developers Kier and Mike left VB after like 9 years and went on making Xenforo and claimed that it is better than VB and creating a forum software the right way.

3. Many Vb members were angry and let down by IB changes and bad management and others looked toward a new hope.

-- BLOOP --

Wow! What a read! A mini-novela, 99% of which has nothing to do with the actual xenforo script and its functionality.

Yes - we get it. Kier and Mike have somehow managed to virtually piss in your Cheerios. You, without purchasing an XF license, ate it up and are apparently mad. But seriously - These types of posts (filled with conjecture and misinformation) make you look quite silly.

What you (apparently?) fail to realize is that vB 4 Gold hit the scene with a dull sizzle-pop! 2 years later - 4.2 seems to have stabilized and usable. Then comes vB 5 Connect, which hit the scene with an astounding sizzle-pop, infuriating those of us who have been longtime vBulletin loyalists, forcing us to find alternative solutions. Perhaps in the next couple years - vBulletin 5 Connect will actually be a usable software? Who knows? I begin to think a lot of folks don't care anymore....

Enter Xenforo, which was a complete from-the-ground-up, fresh rewrite, as opposed to refactored code. It's my understanding that Kier & Mike suggested a rewrite of vB 5 Connect. IDK - I could be wrong here... But fast-forwarding to now: Xenforo is seeing a boom in development - bugs are getting sorted quickly - new features are being added.

Meanwhile at vBulletin: stagnation.

Originally Posted by Barcham

If the founders of XF were former employees at VB, why were they not bound by a non-disclosure/non-competition clause in their contracts? I've been working in the computer business as a hardware specialist for 35 years and such contracts are a standard thing, especially in the software end of the business. If they were bound by such a contract, VB needs better lawyers who would make certain they were enforced. IF they were not bound by such a contract, VB/IB made a serious error and tough luck - deal with it.

It's my understanding that Kier, Ashley & Mike were under a 365 day non-compete clause. Perhaps someone else can verify this?... They developed Xenforo 1.0 during this time, a script which for all intents and purposes has been called the non-vBulletin - a truly functional script, both in terms of innovation and code quality.

IMO Internet Brands/vBulletin lawsuit was absolutely meritless. Their attorneys dragged the lawsuit out as long as possible. The general online consensus is that they were being the big-bully company, trying to shut down the budding script.

vB/IB did make a few serious errors imo - The most glaring is that they spent huge amounts of capital $$$ on attorneys. This money desperately needed to be spent on developers! As a result - vBulletin's code quality suffered, additional employees became jaded and either left or were 'let go'

Still to this very day, IB/vB are OBLIVIOUS as how to put their vehicle back on track to be the worlds leading forum software... Sad day.

J.

[katie hunter]

Originally Posted by JacquiiDesigns

It isn't funny at all imo. It's rather tiresome.

What I've noticed in particular though is that the vB dissension is based on what we can most all certainly agree is vBulletin 4 & vBulletin 5 Connect: the failure of the script to live up to license holders' expectations and the failure of Internet Brands to give a damn about the circumstances.

Most XF dissension (as you can see with our dear Katie) is based on what I call irrelevancies: how the XF community is blegh, how the XF moderating team are blegh, how XF developers are opportunists, how her feelings are hurt because of bla bla bla and blegh again.

Let the dissension be about the actual SCRIPTS, not some petty BS that has nothing to do with the scripts.

Yes we know XF is a young script. As such it is not as loaded with bloat as mature scripts like vB or IPB. But there IS vast development taking place.

Unfortunately we cannot say this about vBulletin.


Wow! What a read! A mini-novela, 99% of which has nothing to do with the actual xenforo script and its functionality.

Yes - we get it. Kier and Mike have somehow managed to virtually piss in your Cheerios. You, without purchasing an XF license, ate it up and are apparently mad. But seriously - These types of posts (filled with conjecture and misinformation) make you look quite silly.

What you (apparently?) fail to realize is that vB 4 Gold hit the scene with a dull sizzle-pop! 2 years later - 4.2 seems to have stabilized and usable. Then comes vB 5 Connect, which hit the scene with an astounding sizzle-pop, infuriating those of us who have been longtime vBulletin loyalists, forcing us to find alternative solutions. Perhaps in the next couple years - vBulletin 5 Connect will actually be a usable software? Who knows? I begin to think a lot of folks don't care anymore....

Enter Xenforo, which was a complete from-the-ground-up, fresh rewrite, as opposed to refactored code. It's my understanding that Kier & Mike suggested a rewrite of vB 5 Connect. IDK - I could be wrong here... But fast-forwarding to now: Xenforo is seeing a boom in development - bugs are getting sorted quickly - new features are being added.

Meanwhile at vBulletin: stagnation.


It's my understanding that Kier, Ashley & Mike were under a 365 day non-compete clause. Perhaps someone else can verify this?... They developed Xenforo 1.0 during this time, a script which for all intents and purposes has been called the non-vBulletin - a truly functional script, both in terms of innovation and code quality.

IMO Internet Brands/vBulletin lawsuit was absolutely meritless. Their attorneys dragged the lawsuit out as long as possible. The general online consensus is that they were being the big-bully company, trying to shut down the budding script.

vB/IB did make a few serious errors imo - The most glaring is that they spent huge amounts of capital $$$ on attorneys. This money desperately needed to be spent on developers! As a result - vBulletin's code quality suffered, additional employees became jaded and either left or were 'let go'

Still to this very day, IB/vB are OBLIVIOUS as how to put their vehicle back on track to be the worlds leading forum software... Sad day.

J.

Okay... so lets just skip the nonsense part of your reply and the weird sizzle-pop language you use. But are you a lawyer? Nope. Do you know how litigation works ? Nope.

Dragging a litigation ? That is definitely a XF staff comment. How many times have i heard this on XF forum in the past just to bash VB, like so many many times and they were talking to people who lacked legal background.

A plaintiff or a defendant has the right to file 1st, 2nd, and 3rd amended complaints and add parties to claims when they see it fit, they are there to win a case or settle it fairly in the first place. Perfectly fine and actually the litigation between IB and Xenforo wasn't even that long and it wasn't dragging, it wasn't a 3 year litigation, most litigation will take anywhere between 1 to 2 years to reach a trial. Discovery proceeding by itself could take up to 9 month.

And btw, Xenforo is not building a software from scratch like Vbulletin wich runs its own custom firmware in the back-end made from ground up. XF used a shortcut and created XF based on a premade custom firmware i.e., Zend Framework http://www.zend.com/en/

Originally Posted by Gemma

Sorry to confuse you!

I'm staying out of this post....I realise now that Katie has issues

I certainly don't have any issues, you came here not liking my responds trying to turn this topic into a useless drama : ) I've used VB for like 8 years and I appreciated the efforts they put in, I've upgrade to vb 4.x just last year from 3.7.6 and i usually take time before i see a stable version. I will do the same when VB 5.x looks more appealing a year or two later. I show support when it is right to do so and that is the right choice.

I have 1.5+ million register members on a forum that loves Vbulletin and receive about any where form 500 to 900 new registered members on daily basis. If i ever switched to Xenforo, the amount of dislike and anger from our members will be huge, this tells many of us something. You can run Xenforo while bashing VBulletin but how many big communities run XF vs how many big communities run VB. Last time i checked, VB won this.

[Gemma]

Well, I'll just shut up...

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by katie hunter

Okay... so lets just skip the nonsense part of your reply and the weird sizzle-pop language you use. But are you a lawyer? Nope. Do you know how litigation works ? Nope.

Again with the irrelevancies...as if you know me. And possible misinformation, as if you know what you're talking about. For all you know - I could be a para-legal who knows more about the American system of jurisprudence than those who have passed the bar exam.

Anyway - Can any official vB Staff clarify: Was it suggested by Kier and team (prior to disappearing from vB/IB's payroll) that vB 4 be a complete rewrite? Was the suggestion slapped down or no? Is the XF script based on a complete code rewrite?

Furthermore - since Katie says vB 5 Connect is 'new' -- Can you tell us if vB 5 Connect is based on freshly rewritten code or refactored code? Whether refactored or freshly written code - would you call vB 5 Connect a success or a laughable sizzle-pop?

Thanks,

J.

fyi ==> My use of sizzle-pop is actually called onomatopoeia. Enlighten yourself if you must: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoeia
My use of it (for your clarification) is that vB 4 - vB 5 Connect should have hit the scene like a firecracker BOOM! Instead - both hit the scene like duds
Speaking of firecrackers - have you played with any lately? No? You should

[JacquiiDesigns]

Originally Posted by Gemma

Well, I'll just shut up...

Please don't allow a twit of an internet-bully to scream and scare you from stating your opinion!
BTW - you ARE right. Katie has issues. I have issues. Paul has issues. You have issues. Everyone has issues.
She's just in lala land and refuses to acknowledge the fact.

J.

[Gemma]

God, I'm not getting scared off...just not getting involved with someone who for some reason feels hard done by and has, in my opinion, stated all sorts of nonsense....this is something which should be on a personal blog somewhere or on your own website. I said before that conversations like this bring a site down a notch or two (any site not just on here)...that's my opinion and I stand by it

And for the record Katie, I've been here for 10 years and up until very recently I run 4 sites on 4 different platforms. Each platform has their good and bad points but I've never gone around "bashing" any of them or staff on official or modification supporting forums. I'm certainly not a xenForo-fangirl

There's not going to be a decent discussion on xenForo vs vBulletin - an actual discussion on the merits of each software because there will always be people stirring it.