I think I've had enough

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by The Geek

I should have known that celebrating coders here was a prediction that would never happen. Now I've got confirmation from one of the ol boys club that its so

Once again, as usual, you twist a statement to suit your needs. You never seem to disappoint me in the predictability department.

[Zachery]

I would like to take the moment to set the record straight for any of you I might have offended. I have the utmost respect for every person on this site who has taken the time to help someone, write a line of code, or done a good deed just by pointing someone in the right direction. The fact of the matter is every year coders come and go. No one really notices most of the time. I'm really sad to see anyone leaving this site for whatever reasons. I personally don't think that Ken (Livewire) went about this in the best way. I know he will be missed by quiet a few people here. I've personally never got to know him so I've got nothing to say about him one way or another. But I don't remember such a huge outburst when others left the community, or possibly faded away.

Lots of the current problems as everyone sees here now are due to a lack of community participation. Not everyone who is getting something is attempting to give something back.

Now I need to be off to my girlfriends graduation.

[The Geek]

Thats a little hypocritical isn't it?

You never fail to disappoint me in the 'where can I find a good curmudgeon?' department?

This site isn't run or directed by the community. Its directed by an ol boys club that:
1- Disregards ideas outside their own circle
2- Resists change not instigated by the inside circle
3- Dismisses contributers to the site (customers)

You should be embarrassed to imply that the people who actually release work on here for your customers are easily replaced.

They are the community. Not you.

[Zachery]

Originally Posted by The Geek

Thats a little hypocritical isn't it?

You never fail to disappoint me in the 'where can I find a good curmudgeon?' department?

This site isn't run or directed by the community. Its directed by an ol boys club that:
1- Disregards ideas outside their own circle
2- Resists change not instigated by the inside circle
3- Dismisses contributers to the site (customers)

You should be embarrassed to imply that the people who actually release work on here for your customers are easily replaced.

They are the community. Not you.

I can't say any one word of that is true.

[Boofo]

Originally Posted by The Geek

Thats a little hypocritical isn't it?

Only is the hypocrisy is true, as in this case.

You never fail to disappoint me in the 'where can I find a good curmudgeon?' department?

You've resorted to name calling and using age as a weapon. Predictability and immaturity both win this time.

I'm trying to understand this, but I really can't.

People are stating that vBulletin.org is going in a bad direction...so they leave the forums and abandon all their hacks. This all seems a little hypocritical to me. You state you want a change for the better on vbulletin.org, but you leave which is only causing more trouble, uproar, and negative outbursts.

I just saw another thread in the Lounge Forums stating that coders should "walk out", until things are changed. In my opinion, this is not the way to get things to change.

The staff listens to every single suggestion that is posted in the Feedback forum. And a lot of these suggestions are in the process of being implemented. But to think that every single suggestion here could be implemented (and implemented quickly) is nonsensical.

As for the coders, I respect every single coder on this forum. I know the dedication and talent all of you posses and I would hate to see any of you leave as you're all a significant part of the community.

In my opinion the decline of vbulletin.org is on everyone’s part. It’s just one big cycle that has caused the community to lose the values it once had; where every member respected one another.

Regular members make negative demands/comments on hacks -> Coders get frustrated and lose respect for regular members and decide not to help people -> everyone is now aggravated and create threads like these.

Next time you see a thread asking for help? Help them! Next time you install hack? Thank the author for their hard work!

This alone will begin to improve the community.

And I just want to restate this fact, despite being repetitious because it’s important; the staff takes every single suggestion into consideration. If the suggestion is a good idea, and it’s possible we suggest plans of implementation and then we begin the actual process of getting it implemented. This process may take a long time, but it does happen.

Personally, I’ve tried my very best to be kind, courteous, and friendly to every single member on vbulletin.org. I know there have been times when I’ve made unjust outbursts to members, but I’ve apologized to them afterwards every single time. If you feel you’ve been treated unfairly, just confront the staff member or one of the Administrators in a private message and it will be worked out.

And finally, I apologize for this very long post.

[Floris]

Whee, what a big thread - and not unique in its' kind.

** Edit out, MarcoH64 **

I will say this as a staff member: I am not too happy to see how things are going and will point this thread out to a few other Jelsoft staff members and the cross site manager. Just a FYI.

[libertate]

I hate to say this, but this is nothing new...

I stopped coding 20 years ago because I was also burned out from constant demand and no positive feedback. (This is back in the BBS/freenet/ freeware/shareware era.)

The reality is that users will be just that - USErs...

Programmers will come and go. Some will become commercial like you hope to, some will fade into oblivion (like me).

If you code to get some appreciation back then you will be, and as it seems, sorely disappointed, as many have before you.

You have to learn to code for the pure pleasure of coding.

I couldn't.

I do still apreciate a finely written code - and give cudos where it is due - but is it enough? Is it ever enough?

[Logikos]

Why was this thread moved?

The Lounge - Sit back in your lazy-boy recliner and chat away. This forum intends to host any kind of chat except vbulletin and hacking issues!

Site Feedback
Please let us know what you think about us in here!

This is bullshit. You move the thread here so it doesn't get the attention is deserves. I'm asking that this thread get moved to the proper place, please.


[edit]----------------------------[/edit]

Originally Posted by Zachery

Titles mean nothing

Thanks, the one thing vBulletin.org does gives us means nothing. Well let me tell you something. When I first joined here, the title meant alot to me. Not because of some line of text, because it meant that I took my time out to create work for a community and I would be rewarded with a title. It's the only thing that seperates the users and coders. Nothing agaist the users who don't code, if it wasn't for them. I wouldn't have ever made the master title. To simply throw out the only thing you give coders is a disgrace. I wear my title proudly, and I think I deserve to also. As any other coder does to.

Originally Posted by Zachery

On the subject of users leaving, everytime one person leaves, a few more will come and take their place.

Don't you see.. THATS THE PROBLEM!!!!! you can't look at this community in that aspect. Maybe if things changes around here, you wouldn't have to worry about coders leaving and new coders coming in. You would simply get old coders staying and new coders coming and older and newer coders working together. Which means what? MORE CODERS vs Users.

and just for the record. EVERY hack listed on my profile was not coded for me. I don't use ANY of my hacks listed in my profile. There simply there for others.

[Tralala]

Originally Posted by The Geek

This site isn't run or directed by the community. Its directed by an ol boys club that:
1- Disregards ideas outside their own circle
2- Resists change not instigated by the inside circle
...

I'm relatively new here and doing my best to learn, show my appreciation, and become a contributor. I've read, read, and read some more... answer as many questions that I can, and I've recently released my first hack.

I will say that I have noticed the behavior/attitude that The Geek has referenced above.

There's a palpable sense of one-upmanship and "powertrippiness" going on here, and I often see it coming from the mods. If a new idea to improve the forum (in terms of function, utility or design) is floated by a coder or a member, it's shot down immediately, which puts the suggesting party on the defensive. Then others have to come forth and "lobby" for the idea, and then the mods (sometimes) open their eyes and actually read/think about the request before discussing it rationally. I can think of a few threads as an example of this, but I'll leave those out for now, so we can focus on "the bigger picture."

I suppose this sort of clash is inevitable when you gather a bunch of alpha-geeks, who all enjoy the power associated with running their own forums. I do think the forum as a whole would benefit if everyone took a deep breath and got over themselves for a bit.

Hambil's suggesting a "Codeout" here. I think the lines of dialog need to open up; the folks feeling disaffected should gather their thoughts to determine what specifically it is they want, and what they expect. And they need to be realistic.

Hoping for "attitudes to change" won't do anything. Concrete requests should be made so concrete changes can happen.

Just my $0.02.