what is up with aquarium forums and vbulletin 5?

[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

What if they don't care?

Mind over matter. If they don't mind, it don't matter. They probably won't be commenting or complaining.

[HM666]

Originally Posted by Max Taxable

Mind over matter. If they don't mind, it don't matter. They probably won't be commenting or complaining.

Very true you will not see them posting if that is the case.

[Digital Jedi]

Originally Posted by Max Taxable

And nobody's done that or is doing that. Strawman much?

I'm the one who brought this up, actually. It's, basically, the vibe I've been getting since I've been back. Feeling sorry for their poor members. Saying they only installed it because of their inexperience. That's just this thread.

[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

I'm the one who brought this up, actually. It's, basically, the vibe I've been getting since I've been back. Feeling sorry for their poor members. Saying they only installed it because of their inexperience. That's just this thread.

Nobody's asserted that's 100 percent of the time. But is IS most of the time. We know this from following the topic here and at vBcom.

People by and large leap before looking, and especially when the cliff has a trusted brand name like vBulletin. It's just human nature. This does not impugn their intellect in any way. They just naturally want the latest and greatest thing.

Saying someone is "ignorant" isn't a insult. It means they don't have knowledge of a thing, a place, whatever. It does not assert they are stupid, or unintelligent in any way.

Poor ole picked on v5. Mean ole bullies out there telling the truth about it. Well, if it wasn't a piece of crap the mean ole bullies wouldn't be trying to do a public service by spreading factual information about it.

We might be saving some fella from making a mistake he'll long regret.

[Digital Jedi]

You can make fun of vB5 all you want. That's not really my issue. My issue is twofold. One, why do people who've already made the choice to use 5 have to be regarded as, however you wish to phrase it, lacking? Who does that benefit? Did one of the forums mentioned express especial difficulty themselves, are are we just assuming they do/did?

And two, why does it have to be ubiquitous? Okay, we want to save people from making mistakes they'll regret. That's fine and I can agree with that. But "the software is crap" isn't especially informative. And it's generally the first answer given to a question that wasn't necessarily asked. The first thing you have to do is figure out what the user wants out of vB5. Them tell him exactly why that won't work. It's not a matter of being "nice" to vB5. It's a matter of actually making the info useful to the user asking the question, and not having to say "here we go again" every time the subject comes up.

[HM666]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

But "the software is crap" isn't especially informative. And it's generally the first answer given to a question that wasn't necessarily asked. The first thing you have to do is figure out what the user wants out of vB5. Them tell him exactly why that won't work. It's not a matter of being "nice" to vB5. It's a matter of actually making the info useful to the user asking the question, and not having to say "here we go again" every time the subject comes up.

This is a very good point which I had not personally considered, but my first thought is that I see most people who install it no matter what they want to get out of the software regret installing vBulletin 5 after the fact. If they installed it on a live board then its a can of worms that a lot of them are stuck with or they migrate completely out of vBulletin to another software altogether.

[Digital Jedi]

I don't have any problem warning people off of vB5, but it's not going to be especially effective if it's just on our word and if we ask no questions. Like, do we know if they've already bought a license? If we ask, and find out they have, then we should stress the importance of running this on a demo board on their same server and really testing and retesting that upgrade, in addition to finding out what modifications won't make the journey. If they haven't bought the upgrade yet, then we should point them to the demo site, and the vB.com forums/bug tracker. Find out what it is they want out of the software and then make recommendations, so they don't waste their money. Let them see what the issues are, and then let them make the final decision as to what they should do.

These are the same steps we'd take for any modification. Why not for the core script itself?

[HM666]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

I don't have any problem warning people off of vB5, but it's not going to be especially effective if it's just on our word and if we ask no questions. Like, do we know if they've already bought a license? If we ask, and find out they have, then we should stress the importance of running this on a demo board on their same server and really testing and retesting that upgrade, in addition to finding out what modifications won't make the journey. If they haven't bought the upgrade yet, then we should point them to the demo site, and the vB.com forums/bug tracker. Find out what it is they want out of the software and then make recommendations, so they don't waste their money. Let them see what the issues are, and then let them make the final decision as to what they should do.

These are the same steps we'd take for any modification. Why not for the core script itself?

That is a very good point. Then if they make a decision to run it and do not like it and complain about the problems they really have no one to blame but themselves.

[Max Taxable]

Originally Posted by Digital Jedi

You can make fun of vB5 all you want. That's not really my issue. My issue is twofold. One, why do people who've already made the choice to use 5 have to be regarded as, however you wish to phrase it, lacking? Who does that benefit? Did one of the forums mentioned express especial difficulty themselves, are are we just assuming they do/did?

And two, why does it have to be ubiquitous? Okay, we want to save people from making mistakes they'll regret. That's fine and I can agree with that. But "the software is crap" isn't especially informative. And it's generally the first answer given to a question that wasn't necessarily asked. The first thing you have to do is figure out what the user wants out of vB5. Them tell him exactly why that won't work. It's not a matter of being "nice" to vB5. It's a matter of actually making the info useful to the user asking the question, and not having to say "here we go again" every time the subject comes up.

Except, in this particular thread there has been good, informative and detailed information posted, not just subjective ubiquitous stuff. In fact, that's most of the time where v5 is concerned.

One, why do people who've already made the choice to use 5 have to be regarded as, however you wish to phrase it, lacking?

I've never seen that, thought that or said anything like that.

Look, 10s of thousands of people bought the Yugo too. A few even liked it. That did not make the Yugo any less of a piece of crap. Except unlike v5, the Yugo didn't have a Cadillac emblem on it.

[Replicant]

I have experienced this first hand. I jumped in blind and un-informed based on VB reputation in the forums game. When I was researching and learning how to get around in VB5, I learned from reading most of the posts on VB.org about VB5 NOT to ask about mods. If people come here for mods, the general answer is "there is not a mod for that at this time". True and concise. It is usually followed up with the "no hooks" and "vb5 is crap" comments that are really not necessary. There are a few members on here that seem to be really helpful with questions on VB5 as far as issues go, tips on coding for VB5, and recommendations on whether to "code on" or give up because it's not going to happen for a novice coder or beginner.

The fact of the matter is, once on VB5, you're ON VB5 unless you can revert to vb4 yourself, pay someone to do it, or buy IPB. If you have something to say that helps, great, but going negative on the product in help threads is un-productive. They are on VB5 and probably going to stay there, and they're going to need some help.

As far as recommendation on what version to use goes, laying out the facts professional and positive fashion and letting the customer decide is the way I believe it should be, so the customer can make an informed decision.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good argument, and sometimes, I even argue when I know I'm wrong because some of you guys are quite entertaining and the reason I'm on the forums is for entertainment. There is a place for opinionated discussions but the VB5 programming and help discussion threads isn't it.