The Arcive of Official vBulletin Modifications Site.It is not a VB3 engine, just a parsed copy! |
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#371
03-26-2004, 06:20 PM
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#372
03-26-2004, 06:22 PM
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We seem to have alot of people posting, most with zero knowledge of how this hack works and even more so with little or no experience in copyright law.
It does not matter how much you "believe" that you should be in control of your own code. The simple and plain fact is that Jelsoft (and IPB and PHPBB) are only ALLOWING you to use their code. When you purchase a license, the company is allowing you to receive one version of their product under their rules and guidelines. Jelsoft has every right to protect the integrity and reputation of their product. If they see the wind blowing in a way that could irrevocably damage their market brand, they can alter the agreement to protect themselves and their product. This is ending badly. A few sour apples that think they know what is right and just are going to end up hurting us all. Jelsoft has many different options from this point forward, and yb asking for the community to comprise with them is far more than they really need to do. Haven't you ever heard of something being a privilege, and not a right? It is our privilege to be allowed to modify and hack the code of vBulletin as we see fit. How many other corporations would allow you to have everything their company is built upon, and say, "Here...now go make it unique for yourselves" This is tremendous power and responsibility Jelsoft gives us. All they are asking for are some VERY minor adjustments in some of the hacks that we all create. Is that really such a monumental travesty that we have to go around and start discussing renegade hacking communities peppered with hacks specifically aimed at thumbing the nose at Jelsoft? PLEASE. Take a deep breath, walk away from this thread, and in a few days come back to it and ask yourself what the cost/benefit of a site like vBulletin.org has. At its height (when I started here), you could get answers to hacking questions, see new hacks every day, and generally it was a fun place to go on my favorites list. Now, it has befallen a new generation of animosity and angst...Where everybody thinks they can do it better than the next guy. |
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#373
03-26-2004, 06:24 PM
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Either way this is bullcrap. This is a nice hack and has plenty of good uses. I dont see why they have to start this kind of crap everytime there comes a hack that could be used for something controversial. The lockdown hack can also be used for good as well as this hack.
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#374
03-26-2004, 06:31 PM
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me wanting vbhosting to allow mods of subforums to use custom colors and logo takes away from jelsofts profits how, exactly? keep in mind, i don't charge folks for subforums.. nor have i ever, nor do i ever intend to.. i don't stiffle growth because it's the only thing in this world that, if stiffled, creates a dominant defeatist attitude.. that of which i do not have.. as far as intellectual property rights, law and the violation therein.. i don't know a great deal.. however, i know it's not my case to prove in court if someone comes after me.. the burden of proof lies within the case of the complaintant.. not the defendant.. that is a fact and some i do know with 100% certainty.. it would only be my job to defend myself.. |
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#375
03-26-2004, 06:32 PM
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Even Jelsoft's lawyers - who work for Jelsoft and are paid to represent their point of view - are only expressing an OPINION. We have had one lawyer on this board also render an OPINION that, in his experience, the hack does not violate the LA. The only one who can STATE AS FACT that the hack violates the license agreement is a judge so Jelsoft's OPINION does not prohibit sany site from releasing the hack. In fact, any site can release the hack NOW and Jelsoft's ONLY alternative is to file suit as their OPINION would be non-binding on any non-Jelsoft site. Then they have the burden of proving their case. In this particular instance, they're going to fall well short. So please do not mislead people into thinking that Jelsoft's OPINION is anything other than that and that is in any way binding on any independent site. |
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#376
03-26-2004, 06:40 PM
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Jelsoft has the right at any time to alter the license agreement in a retroactive fashion at which would render your theory wrong.
Additionally, and add-on or modification to the source code of vBulletin is subject to the same license agreement under International Copyright Law and therefore would be considered a violation of the LA. Jelsoft has every right, and I would assume every intention, or protecting itself. Yes, you could go run off and threaten a lawsuit, FASherman, but what would it accomplish? The destruction of vB? Them altering the flexible licensing agreement already in play? It has been the benefit of the community to be able to use and modify vBulletin. Paying for a thing does not necessarily give you the right to destroy a thing. |
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#377
03-26-2004, 07:06 PM
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FYI, Jelsoft cannot sue or bring any valid legal action against a site which carries/distributes the vBHosting hack. The hack itself does not violate the EULA. Only when the hack is applied to the source does it then violate the EULA. So, unless the site is distributing modified copies of the vBulletin source code, Jelsoft has absolutely no legal ground to stand on in the matter.
This same scenario applies to "cracks" for software programs. The crack in and of itself is no more legal or illegal than the program it modifies. Just thought I'd point that out.. |
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#378
03-26-2004, 07:10 PM
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I dont think anyone here disagrees with the fact that the hack could potentially be misused. And I dont think anyone here has said that Jelsoft was not in thier rights to those would would in essence give out thier software for free.... This hack, given what it accomplishes, would need to have legal review it simply because if Jelsoft puts it back up with a note saying 'hey this hack is okay, have fun' ... it may jeopordize how they legally go after the real culprits. Speedstreet makes a good point, one I tried to present as well. This is going nowhere fast, the same arguements are being re-hashed out again and again. The alternatives being discussed such as a new hacking community and lawsuits would ultimately do more harm than good. At this point it appears that there are inreconciliable differences of opinion regarding this hack so the only thing to do at this point is wait for Jelsoft offical last word on it. If some feel that they must take thier business elsewhere, or create an alternative site for hacking, then so be it. |
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#379
03-26-2004, 07:11 PM
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I dont have the hack but if the installation instructions contain Jelsoft code (which almost every hack does) then it would be a copyright violation. |
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#380
03-26-2004, 07:13 PM
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* edit: It's also a matter of how much code is displayed in the instructions. Jelsoft doesn't "own" a routine, they own the program as a whole. |
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