Suggestions for commercial scripts

can we focus on the topic please, not sentiments ?!

[Floris]

Hello everybody,

I'd like to point out that this is an interesting topic to discuss, and I will bring this topic to the attention of the site manager(s) and Jelsoft manager(s). Just so you know.

Please feel free to discuss this further but on a point where posts are on-topic, contributing to the discussion, constructive and that means with arguments and not on a personal level. For that surely will help get an overview and proper feedback on the topic at hand.

Again, interesting and to be honest, worth discussing to get a clear view in the end. We're not ignoring it as Jelsoft, or as vBorg staff. Just letting you know.

[The Geek]

agreed

I also agree with the thought that maybe an offsite directory may be the best solution for everyone. vb.org and vb.com can link to it, charge an annual subscription fee (which would make most think twice about submitting work there).
I think an annual fee would be better than a % as with a %, it would only get passed on to the customer 'as is' and the authors have no investment to make in order to sell.

It would be nice however to have the userbase be vb.com or .org just to keep things more interwoven.
I also think that it would be essentail that a valid feedback system is implimented. A user should be able to rate the value for money, functionality and support of the enhancment. In cases of a bad or negative rating, maybe a company response could be in order (like eBay).

Permit me to dream for a minute here... Would even be better if a system could be implimented where someone buys a product from the site, at time of purchase the authors site submits the (i dunno) email address to a vb.com script which posts back an authorisation number that could be used to pass protect the zip or act as a license number or something.
That way authors know their work is going to licensed users, vb knows whats getting sold and only users that purchased can leave feedback.

Maybe Im over thinking it. Its just a thought

[cclaerhout]

Of course rules can be changed, but policy of this forum has been quite cleared since the beginning.

As good as are commercial scripts, i don't think they have their place in vb.org. Just let imagine a new member who has just bought vBulletin (160 dollars). "Cool i'm going to personalize my forum... So i must go to vbulletin.org... Let's see that. Hum, i love that hack : i want it ! Oh sh%^# i must pay. For this one too ! Why do i have to pay for all good hacks ! I can't afford them. If i would have known this, i would have kept working with phpbb.

The idea of a directory should be good, but it would compete with the Hack Of The Month. HOTM is a good system to motivate coders. Create a directory with comments will allow a new way of being motivated. I believe in the "ripple affect" discribed by exasko.

At the begining, i supposed most of hacks are made for coder's personal website. Up to him to decide if he wants to keep it for him or if he wants to to give it to the community. He's got the choice, it's his work.

Now, if he begins to create hacks to sell them, he must do that alone without complaining community doesn't want to support him. At the beginning, it's his decision, not the community's one. And when some originaly free hacks become commercials after an upgrade of vB, don't complain because you have to say goodbye. Some people wouldn't understand and will live this as a treason.

Again sorry for my poor english.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Originally Posted by GoTTi

i find this comment to be uncalled for to threaten us if we as a community choose to pay for hacks on here or whatever...

this community is no more yours then it is ours. we all have licenses on here and we all pay the costs. to put the staff in a spot of choosing you over us is wrong and if thats your stance on things, who really runs and contributes to this site? the staff or the coders? to me, everyone runs this site. and thats how it should be since we contribute things on here to help out forums, make them look and create things that others can use.

He clearly marked that comment as personal and 'as a user', not as a Staff member, so i would say your response is uncalled for.

He is not claiming that this is his (or the Staff's) community, he is simply stating that he as a person, wouldn't feel in the right place if we would turn into a place like he is afraid of. It is his right (as a normal user) to ventilate his thoughts on this subject.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

Originally Posted by The Geek

I also think that it would be essentail that a valid feedback system is implimented. A user should be able to rate the value for money, functionality and support of the enhancment. In cases of a bad or negative rating, maybe a company response could be in order (like eBay).

Never say never, but i doubt a rating/feedback system will ever be implemented. Who should moderate disputes about it, we don't have the time, knowledge or the powers to do so. Don't forget that when money is at stake, things can be played rough. Not to forget possible claims towards Jelsoft.

Originally Posted by The Geek

Permit me to dream for a minute here... Would even be better if a system could be implimented where someone buys a product from the site

Same thing, i doubt Jelsoft ever wants to become a party in between a business deal of 2 other people.

[AN-net]

i do not like the idea of commercial scripts on this site. as said already i believe it would cause a shift to many free hacks becoming paid and thus the community we have established here will suffer. however the rules on advertising could be lowered for signatures. i think my suggestion of vBulletin approved script is a great idea

[Osterling]

What if $member was to create a site with a directory that allowed hackers to and submit there hack to the directory. With the site set up, have hackers put a link in there signature here at vBulletin.org as a way to spread the word about the place.

i doubt that a paid directory would give the best platform for advertising commercial/paid services... anyway, profit would be for who ?!

if Jelsoft is interested to have its products delivered to more people (the main goal of all companies), they have to show that their software is expandable beyond the point of their own script.

i'm not interested by the coders that build tools... again, i talk about real commercial systems/integrations etc... a complete banners system, a toplist script, a bingo, whatever... is not a line of code modified inside the forum itself, but a complete independant part... if these softwares can be added to vB itself, why not announce it?!

and for the comparaison with phpBB - useless... most addons and commercial scripts that connect to phpBB or anyother are not free either... if you want to stick with free stuff, you don't go where there is development. or you do the job yourself.

if you visit vb.org to have free stuff, this is not the best way to compliment the work of all coders here anyway... most of them work hard to learn this software and make it better... if they want to work for free, no problem, but many would like to have a living for this, because they want to expand a software that is not even free...

i never had a single client owner of vB that was requesting FREE jobs... they all know that a job is paid to the value of the result... some are even asking if they can be financed to have the work provided... some guys request donations on their sites to be able to pay for some addons... that mean they value the work of the coders... they know that can't have everything for free.

a good alternative would be a "hotscripts.com" - like website, where coders can advertise their releases - not their availability, but releases, and where companies can pay to have a better visibility (banners, icons, top of the lists, etc)... this would be the best situation possible, and no need for Jelsoft to negociate or evaluate the work of each coder...

i don't like the Rating idea to be good anyway... reputation exists on vB and nobody use it... why work on another alternative when the first one is already solid and not used... callback links is the best... a client visit the code repository, visit a coder, buy a script, and if he is happy, click back on the coder's website to the button "vote for me on the repository" ... bam, a vote... no vote == no value usually... (not === btw)

and i suggested something like that earlier this year, having an external site, and this was rejected for a single reason: Jelsoft want to control the visibility of their software, and this is good... internally, i have no problem... a repository of external links at vb.com is good anyway... or a new vb.net (for business on the net only)...

[yoyoyoyo]

Originally Posted by MarcoH64

Never say never, but i doubt a rating/feedback system will ever be implemented. Who should moderate disputes about it, we don't have the time, knowledge or the powers to do so. Don't forget that when money is at stake, things can be played rough. Not to forget possible claims towards Jelsoft.

Same thing, i doubt Jelsoft ever wants to become a party in between a business deal of 2 other people.

I mentioned Pinnacle Systems earlier - and they should be considered a good/successful business model. They have 3rd party addons to their software, that people can purchase through their software, that they are not liable for and do not support. I think that it is short-sighted business-wise to let some revenue like that slip through their hands, but I am not going to argue the point any further.

As far as the claims that everyone will start charging for every simple template edit that is silly, since the market will bear only what it can support. I don't forsee a lot of smalltime vb hackers opening up their corner lemonade stand with template edits and bb codes- and if the market will support that lemonade stand site for some odd reason then more power to them, but I doubt it will.

Also- any smart business person will still release free stuff through here as a means to educate people about their site.