bloody outrageous prices for "Jiveforums"! my god...

[filburt1]

Originally Posted by colicab-d

But hey what do i know lol

No offense, but it doesn't seem to be much. JSP is free to deploy with Tomcat and Apache (usually the pair of choice, although JRun is used a bit), JSP solutions are extremely scalable, vB hardly complies with all standards...

You're also forgetting that most users really could care less about a calendar, customizable FAQ, (annoying) DHTML animated menus, groupable smilie sets, customizable BB codes...they just want to get help from other users with their problems. Mostly the only feature that Sun's forums have other than their useful Duke Dollars is the [code] tag. When I've been posting at their forums for Java help, I never really have felt constrained...I mean how often do you truly use every feature of vB, IPB, phpBB, etc.?

If I was running an enterprise, I would just feel more comfortable buying a product that cost more than $160 when I knew it could be the difference between millions of dollars of revenue.

[colicab-d]

Filburt i wouldnt of said that unless i meant it, like i say im no coder etc im just a desginer.... sheeesh lol

ultiemately none of us will ever really use nor need this software, nor will anyone heer pay those prices... excpet big companys so who cares? i dont i have vb and for what i need it,ll do for now

*hmm may have contradicted myself a little ah well like i say what do i know eh filby


tho i would think theyre would be a tonne of free or small price and well coded, php , or asp alternatives to this..... that like u say dont have calendars etc and are for users wantin a quick post help

also u talk of revenue... im not sure how your gonna generate cash by running a forum with no ads thats a support resource, possibley on a free service.

i guess its the scneario ur in eh

[msimplay]

Originally Posted by filburt1

No offense, but it doesn't seem to be much. JSP is free to deploy with Tomcat and Apache (usually the pair of choice, although JRun is used a bit), JSP solutions are extremely scalable, vB hardly complies with all standards...

You're also forgetting that most users really could care less about a calendar, customizable FAQ, (annoying) DHTML animated menus, groupable smilie sets, customizable BB codes...they just want to get help from other users with their problems. Mostly the only feature that Sun's forums have other than their useful Duke Dollars is the [code] tag. When I've been posting at their forums for Java help, I never really have felt constrained...I mean how often do you truly use every feature of vB, IPB, phpBB, etc.?

If I was running an enterprise, I would just feel more comfortable buying a product that cost more than $160 when I knew it could be the difference between millions of dollars of revenue.

hmm thats where u'd be wrong it depends on the context of the forum itself
fair enough i don't run a large site however
a friend of mine does and those features u mentioned are in regular use on mine and his site
if smilies were not there they would definately complain.
Simply because they are standard on most forum software
also custamisable faq is admin side not user side
you only have too look at real.com and even their forums have smilies , pms , bbcode etc etc

[colicab-d]

i agree msimplay, i mean some of the best known public support forums run software that is better than this by miles.. companys like real etc, also if a company is looking for a smaller solution, then would it not look to its own web department? maybe hire a 3rd party to code a custom solution, that will in all cases come well doucmented

[vbmechanic]

>>The price isn't bad when you consider the only other enterprise forum software that I know of is Open Topic.

Don't forget Web Crossing. Used to run CNN and ESPN forums.. not sure if it still does.

[KuraFire]

Originally Posted by filburt1

No offense, but it doesn't seem to be much. JSP is free to deploy with Tomcat and Apache (usually the pair of choice, although JRun is used a bit), JSP solutions are extremely scalable, vB hardly complies with all standards...

Neither does Jive forums:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...threadID=11562

[filburt1]

Originally Posted by KuraFire

Neither does Jive forums:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...threadID=11562

I wasn't necessarily talking about XHTML compliance but 80-character-line-limits, accessibility compliancy including section 508, etc.

Queue a developer to retaliate, but I feel that my opinions are valid.

[AWS]

Originally Posted by filburt1

I wasn't necessarily talking about XHTML compliance but 80-character-line-limits, accessibility compliancy including section 508, etc.

Queue a developer to retaliate, but I feel that my opinions are valid.

You have valid points. In fact you're the first person that I have seen here that actually understands the differences.
Jive is made to handle large forums. Large forums are not forums that have 2 mill posts and 40K users. Large forums are forums such as ESPNs, which was mentioned above. Which gets upwards of 1 mil online at a time and 5000 or so posts every minute. Jive could handle this. Open Topic could handle it. The enterprise forum that ESPN uses can and does handle it. Vbulletin could not.
You also have to remember. The users of large forums, forums like I describe above, don't care about the UI. They want to be able to post their comments and read the replies. They could care less about smilies. They just distract from the flow of the discussion.

[msimplay]

Originally Posted by AWS

You have valid points. In fact you're the first person that I have seen here that actually understands the differences.
Jive is made to handle large forums. Large forums are not forums that have 2 mill posts and 40K users. Large forums are forums such as ESPNs, which was mentioned above. Which gets upwards of 1 mil online at a time and 5000 or so posts every minute. Jive could handle this. Open Topic could handle it. The enterprise forum that ESPN uses can and does handle it. Vbulletin could not.
You also have to remember. The users of large forums, forums like I describe above, don't care about the UI. They want to be able to post their comments and read the replies. They could care less about smilies. They just distract from the flow of the discussion.

could ave just said that before
guess thats why they use oracle
hmm i wonder which forum does 5000 posts per minute
i want to see one i've never seen a website that busy before

[Velocd]

I don't think there are any 5000posts/minute forums out there

While vBulletin may be able to contain tons and tons of members and still function, it can't sufficiently manage the bandwidth that gets passed around, not to mention the server load generated. I've been on huge vBulletin sites that go slow as hell when trying to navigate. (obviously other factors go into consideration here)

Jive and other software built on Java or more stable platforms than PHP&MySQL have a better edge at the enterprise market.

For a large business, stability is the most priceless asset. Even somewhat negligible downtime would likely ensure loss of clients.

vBulletin stands above in features, but as mentioned (I think), abundant features aren't important for enterprise solutions.