vB.org Is Not Active Like it Use Before

[bigcurt]

Well, used to be a lot of people would at least come to the coders with PROBLEMS they would have with the code. Now, I think it mainly comes down to a lot of people asking for more, more, more. Myself included, I know I have asked a few times for "more features" of a modification. However, I do not take it to the lengths that some people do and I would like to think that I at least make my gratitude seen by the coder.

[Paul M]

Originally Posted by Inferno Tech

We even had an extremely prominent staff member say he was having some problems, and ask if he should post for help, or just not bother and uninstall it! This is meant to be an advanced coder, who won't even take the time to debug errors he is having, instead threatening to uninstall unless someone does it for him.

Perhaps you should check you own attitude before casting stones about others. Just because I happen to be a staff member, or write my own modifications, does not mean I should have to debug every other modification I happen to try out or use. You may have lots of free time, I don't. The facts are that you posted that the modification was unsupported, so I quite reasonably asked if I should post the issues I encounted or just move on. There is no point in me posting issues if you are going to ignore them.

As far as activity is concerned, it really depends on how you measure it - something like 2,500 members log in every day, and over 150 new members join every day - hardly a sign of inactivity. As far as new modifications are concerned, it would be impossible to keep up a constant stream of new releases, so many extra features that people want are already provided by existing modifications. Members cannot come up with a never ending supply of new ideas. Most of the requests I read these days are either for very obscure custom features that would almost only be of use to the requestor - or are for massive changes that would take someone a great deal of time and effort to write.

[Ziki]

Here is my answer to this thread:

1.Money moves->when we make a good hack we want to sell it because money is important nowdays
2.Free = Theft ->Many hacks get stolen,or republished without permission.I found a couple of mine on other websites which I didn't give permission to
3.Ideas ->It is very hard to come up with unique ideas all the time
4.Time -> coding takes time
5.Skills -> often I can't code what somebody requests

Originally Posted by Paul M

Members cannot come up with a never ending supply of new ideas. Most of the requests I read these days are either for very obscure custom features that would almost only be of use to the requestor - or are for massive changes that would take someone a great deal of time and effort to write.

Yeah basically what I wanted to say Paul.

[MPDev]

I have five kids.... if I did everything for "free", I wouldn't be putting food on the table.

[deezelpope]

Originally Posted by Inferno Tech

VB.orgs problem is the community of non-coders. They have got no respect, and expect everything for nothing. In our latest mod we have had more than one post taking shots at us for daring to release a paid version of our mod and not supporting the free version. Even though those people just got a mod *For Free* They still feel like they have the right to insult and have a go at the coders.

Now wait just a second. Not ALL 'non-coders' are like you're saying, and it's rather unfair of you to say so. I have nothing but the utmost respect for the staff, coders, and designers here. In my opinion, they're nothing short of brilliant! I can't begin to wrap my head around the things they're capable of, regarding coding and designing. All that code makes my head spin.:erm:

[cheat-master30]

Originally Posted by Ziki

Here is my answer to this thread:

1.Money moves->when we make a good hack we want to sell it because money is important nowdays
2.Free = Theft ->Many hacks get stolen,or republished without permission.I found a couple of mine on other websites which I didn't give permission to
3.Ideas ->It is very hard to come up with unique ideas all the time
4.Time -> coding takes time
5.Skills -> often I can't code what somebody requests

Yeah basically what I wanted to say Paul.

1. Some people will always put the interests of others and free things before payment. The same that refuse advertisements, paid memberships and paid content.

2. Stuff like that gets stolen regardless of if it's paid or free. Otherwise you wouldn't see so much paid software pirated and released on warez and torrent sites.

3. Fair enough. Although if anyone wants new ideas... I could write a very long list of things not released yet that I currently don't have the ability to release.

4. Fair enough.

5. Same here

Originally Posted by Andrew Green

You do have a point there, used to be you had to know a little bit about php in order to install modifications. Now its easy, anyone can do it, leads to a bigger group with less ability to troubleshoot.

Don't see no big difference. Checked in the install file of a vBulletin version 2 mod and it did still say to find this piece of code and add/delete/replace with this new piece of code. Same kind of thing as template edits; and most major modifications require either template or file mods.

Originally Posted by Inferno Tech

My two cents are this: Whenever you release a free mod on vb.org it seems some people suddenly think they "own" you, and demand 24/7 support. If you dare not to give this they make a scathing "uninstall" post, and god help you if you release a paid version of the mod as well, because then apparently you are insulting them in some way by giving them something for free, just because they have to *shock horror* pay for a better version.

VB.orgs problem is the community of non-coders. They have got no respect, and expect everything for nothing. In our latest mod we have had more than one post taking shots at us for daring to release a paid version of our mod and not supporting the free version. Even though those people just got a mod *For Free* They still feel like they have the right to insult and have a go at the coders.

We even had an extremely prominent staff member say he was having some problems, and ask if he should post for help, or just not bother and uninstall it! This is meant to be an advanced coder, who won't even take the time to debug errors he is having, instead threatening to uninstall unless someone does it for him. This kind of attitude, where if someone else doesnt fix your problem you're going to make an "uninstall" post is ridiculous - especially from other coders.

If you want to know why vb.org isnt as active - there are the reasons. I know of more than one coder who has left because of this kind of attitude.

Some people will always have little or no respect for anyone else. But these people are NEVER the majority on a website or forum. The majority who try modifications either are satisfied or give up and go elsewhere. It's like those company review sites online; only the very vocal get heard and their opinions are very much exaggerated or hostile.

I cannot hide that I dislike commercialism and capitalism as a whole. I also cannot hide that I prefer the internet without business being a massive part of it, and especially dislike Lite versions which are just dumbed down versions of a full one. Probably because this is about free modifications. But I won't argue.

[Ziki]

Originally Posted by cheat-master30

1. Some people will always put the interests of others and free things before payment. The same that refuse advertisements, paid memberships and paid content.

2. Stuff like that gets stolen regardless of if it's paid or free. Otherwise you wouldn't see so much paid software pirated and released on warez and torrent sites.

3. Fair enough. Although if anyone wants new ideas... I could write a very long list of things not released yet that I currently don't have the ability to release.

4. Fair enough.

5. Same here



Don't see no big difference. Checked in the install file of a vBulletin version 2 mod and it did still say to find this piece of code and add/delete/replace with this new piece of code. Same kind of thing as template edits; and most major modifications require either template or file mods.



Some people will always have little or no respect for anyone else. But these people are NEVER the majority on a website or forum. The majority who try modifications either are satisfied or give up and go elsewhere. It's like those company review sites online; only the very vocal get heard and their opinions are very much exaggerated or hostile.

I cannot hide that I dislike commercialism and capitalism as a whole. I also cannot hide that I prefer the internet without business being a massive part of it, and especially dislike Lite versions which are just dumbed down versions of a full one. Probably because this is about free modifications. But I won't argue.

Fair enough.

[Inferno Tech]

@Deezelpope - sorry for the generalisation, I realise, and appreciate, that not all none coders are like that. The point i was trying to make is that the %age of non coders to coders who act in this way is much greater.

@others

Giving out free code is admirable, sure, but it comes down to this.

Would you rather talented coders released lite versions here on vb.org, with full versions for sale, or that they didnt release anything at all?

The way people in the community react to lite and pro means that coders are getting the latter impression, and with other successful forum systems there ready to be coded for, it's a dangerous game. The community is destroying itself, by attacking itself. It's driving people away for no reason, and even when it's NOT doing that, it's not giving them much incentive to stick around either. Go look at any mod thread, the number of complaining or request posts, worded rudely usually, will outnumber the posts of people expressing gratitude 9 times out of 10.

Oh and just a little RE: to the stolen comment - if products are paid for, they can be properly protected. We have a product out, which has been out for quite a while now, and hasnt been cracked thanks to some protection measures, including encoding.

Premium mods definetely *can* be protected.

[Brad]

There are a lack of people willing to teach, there are a lack of people willing to learn. Both groups have a hard time hearing each other over all the noise.

Fix the above problems and you'll find the community will take care of itself.

[cheat-master30]

Originally Posted by Inferno Tech

@Deezelpope - sorry for the generalisation, I realise, and appreciate, that not all none coders are like that. The point i was trying to make is that the %age of non coders to coders who act in this way is much greater.

@others

Giving out free code is admirable, sure, but it comes down to this.

Would you rather talented coders released lite versions here on vb.org, with full versions for sale, or that they didnt release anything at all?

The way people in the community react to lite and pro means that coders are getting the latter impression, and with other successful forum systems there ready to be coded for, it's a dangerous game. The community is destroying itself, by attacking itself. It's driving people away for no reason, and even when it's NOT doing that, it's not giving them much incentive to stick around either. Go look at any mod thread, the number of complaining or request posts, worded rudely usually, will outnumber the posts of people expressing gratitude 9 times out of 10.

Oh and just a little RE: to the stolen comment - if products are paid for, they can be properly protected. We have a product out, which has been out for quite a while now, and hasnt been cracked thanks to some protection measures, including encoding.

Premium mods definetely *can* be protected.

Firstly, I really have no comment on the first part. As for the part about the happiness expressed in the topic... as I said, the happy users don't generally reply/interact with others as much. For example, there are millions of vBulletin forums. Only a minority use the official site or this one.. and far less complain.


As for being properly protected... anything can be cracked. Just no one has used the time and resources to do so, simply because many such encoded products are not the mainstream, widely used products by others. And for one, you cannot protect the front end. HTML, CSS, XML and Javascript are NOT protectable in any way because they need to be understood by the browser to be parsed. That leaves the PHP core, which could be copied by an experienced coder... or possibly in future cracked. But less of that, as I am not one to discuss things which even show piracy.