Regarding the vBHosting Hack

[Morrus]

Originally Posted by PlenoJure

While it seems the issue of distributing this hack has been setteled based on the last couple posts, I would still like a better explanation of just what that clause in the license represents. It seems there is a great deal of confusion, perhaps if Jelsoft released a somewhat more detailed statement it would help clear up the legel issues.

No, it would only help clear up Jelsoft's opinions. I'd happily release an (equally valid) opinion of what the clause means, but, frankly, that would also just be an opinion.

As FASHerman says, above, if Jelsoft wish to assert that it means something other than what I think it means, in a manner more than just saying "well, umm, this is what we think", they need to assert it according to proper legal process. In other words, they need to take action against someone using the hack; however, I wouldn't recommend to them that they do that, for reasons stated previously by various people.

[PlenoJure]

Originally Posted by Zachery

If jelsoft bans a hack of this nature it would not be allowed to be distributed on any of the offical vBulletin / Jelsoft websites. It is Jelsofts final call on their own websites.

There is two debates going on here, and it seems there is a fair amount on confusion about which everybody is talking about. There is the issue of if it's legel & if it will be distributed here.

Based on the comments made by Jelsoft reprsenitives obviously they have decieded about the distrobution issue. This is thier site, they chose what to allow and what not to, that simple. Even if it is someday found to be within the confines of the license they still have the right to not allow it, thats their chose, this is their site.

[nighteyes]

Originally Posted by Zachery

If jelsoft bans a hack of this nature it would not be allowed to be distributed on any of the offical vBulletin / Jelsoft websites. It is Jelsofts final call on their own websites.

So you are banning the hack, yes?

[lasto]

Originally Posted by trafix

Well the outcome is in Jelsofts hands As far as I can see they are trying to negotiate the best solution for everyone ....

SO to those who still want to protest ...

Build a bridge and get over it!

Nope its not end of matter.
If we all took someones word at face value then we would never get anything sorted.This aint just about the hack it has deeper Issues for everyone who buys a vb license and how jelsoft controls what we are allowed to use.19 pages because one hack is removed goes to show that people are not happy with the situation.

Problem with vb is there is 2 diversions - the die hard vb fanatics who believe that anything said is solid and then you have those who are only interested in releasing hacks or helping others.
If the hack is allowed you would use it if u needed it would`nt you ? so all you lot saying waynes word is final it aint as GameCrash said if its banned here he will release it elsewhere and because of that the hack will be a sought after one just because Jelsoft decided to ban it in the first place.
Remember if we all roll over and die nothing would ever get sorted so sometimes people need to come together like this to clear the air.

[PlenoJure]

Originally Posted by Morrus

No, it would only help clear up Jelsoft's opinions. I'd happily release an (equally valid) opinion of what the clause means, but, frankly, that would also just be an opinion.

I run a small site and even if I was doing something that was later proved to be legal, a very short legal battle would destroy my company. I can't afford to get cought up in a legal fight over something like this, I would rather see their legal opinion and abide by that, then not know and accedently do something to get myself sued.

(BTW: No, I'm not running this hack, I'm just trying to get some answers for future refference)

[Morrus]

Originally Posted by PlenoJure

I run a small site and even if I was doing something that was later proved to be legal, a very short legal battle would destroy my company. I can't afford to get cought up in a legal fight over something like this, I would rather see their legal opinion and abide by that, then not know and accedently do something to get myself sued.

(BTW: No, I'm not running this hack, I'm just trying to get some answers for future refference)

I'm not using it, either. Just interested in the topic.

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend that a small business get involved in any legal tests (although Jelsoft aren't exactly a giant). Leave it to the bigger boys. It only takes one instance for the legal precedence to happen.

I don't think there's much danger of it happening, anyway. I'm pretty sure I know what Jelsoft will eventually say, although weirder things have happened...

[GameCrash]

Originally Posted by Zachery

No, vBulletin Germany didnt have the authorization to tell you it was legal, Kiers word is the final decision on it.

• I am not talking about distribution, I am talking about legality
• I am not talking about what either the Jelsoft staff or the Adduco staff sys, I am talking about laws
• I had written permission from both, vB.com and vB-Germany.com - it's just the problem that I can't no more access this at vB.com as I don't have any license left there.
• If Kier has any decision on what vB-Germany.com does with its customers and its licenses depends on the internal agreement between both. However, as a customer, internal agreements are irrelevant for me, the only relevant thing is what the ones I have a contract with say. This is (at least German) law.

[FASherman]

Originally Posted by PlenoJure

I run a small site and even if I was doing something that was later proved to be legal, a very short legal battle would destroy my company. I can't afford to get cought up in a legal fight over something like this, I would rather see their legal opinion and abide by that, then not know and accedently do something to get myself sued.

(BTW: No, I'm not running this hack, I'm just trying to get some answers for future refference)

Never let the fear of legal costs keep you from pursuing your rights. Take this situation, as an example. First, Jelsoft would have to file suit against you. As the defendent, you have certain legal rights. One is to be compensated for the cost of your defense if Jelsoft fails to make their case. Secondly, you are entitled to countersue for damages to your good name. Just making an accusation of software piracy is highly damaging to those of us in the IT industry, even if we prevail in court.

A good lawyer will see just how fragile Jelsoft's claim is and may agree to take the case on a contingency basis. That is, if you loose, you pay the lawyer nothing, but if you win, Jelsoft pays the legal fees, plus the lawyer gets 20-30% of the damage award from the countersuit.

This type of arrangement is much more common than you might believe.

[PlenoJure]

Originally Posted by Morrus

Anyway, I wouldn't recommend that a small business get involved in any legal tests (although Jelsoft aren't exactly a giant). Leave it to the bigger boys. It only takes one instance for the legal precedence to happen.

That's why I'm asking the questions now

[Morrus]

Incidentally, those who are having moral issues with this hack (as opposed to legal issues) should glance at this thread:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=54327

It makes it clear that Jelsoft are willing to enforce license terms to the letter, even against someone harmlessly using a "test site". That's fine - it's their right, and it is clear in the license agreement that one cannot do that. But I don't see a moral quandry here should I find myself in a position where I might want to do something permitted by the license but which is against Jelsoft's interests.

Licenses work both ways.