To enforce a valid coding style in the community!

[Boofo]

Maybe a forum where experienced coders can help answer coding standard questions for others? Thay way no one would fell slighted or small or discouraged for not knowing the standard and having it pointed out to then in public (ie, label/rating system).

Just an idea.

[Chris M]

Originally Posted by Dark Visor

What does "QA" stand for? Quality Assurance?.. I dislike the abbreviation.


I disagree:

• The vBulletin coding standards are publically available through the official vBulletin manual and are easy to learn. These standards are basically about proper indentation and proper line breaks. Therefore, they take very little time to learn - to me, it took about 10 minutes to read through the standards section and memorize it.
• Beginner hackers do not generally release long hacks. The QA Team, therefore, could easily fix the first few releases of that beginner, but not allow any more releases after a stated amount if the hacker refuses to comply with the standard.
• Usually, people hack because they like doing it. If they like doing it, they should be happy to learn how to do what they like more efficiently. If they don't want to learn it - they are not serious about coding and they should not be releasing hacks.

However, this is not likely to work out for the following reasons:

• Beginner-level hackers would probably pay no attention to the edits made by the QA team, making the QA's efforts pointless.
• Mass fixing of hacks by the QA Team would take too much time, which most of us don't really have.

You are right - they won't show up until they are approved. However, this doesn't really matter. The time coders and end-users waste to solve installation problems that are occuring to unexperienced installation performers will be much longer than the time required to write a valid hack once and for all as well as the time required to install a valid hack without later problems.

Based on above + plus KirbyDE's post, I am rethinking the effectiveness of the above method... However, I'd like to propose another plan, which I am sure can act as a compromisse between the two sides:

On vBulletin.org, hacks have many custom fields ("Installer Included", "Support Provided", etc). It should be no problem for the forum administrators to add a field "QA Verified", editable only by the QA team and the administrators. Once the field is created, make the board display only the Verified hacks by default, with an option to display a complete list of hacks (both verified and non-verified). The option should be visualized as a link in every forum, and it should create a session variable (not a cookie), that would keep the setting as is until the user leaves the forum. Once he\she comes back, it will once again set to only display Verified hacks.

This way, it will feel like that the Verified hacks are positioned above non-verified hacks. While the coding style will not be enforced, vB hackers will be encouraged to code properly in order to rate higher and display their hacks better. The best part is, this system is easy to implement (I could help making it), and it would not require immediate validation, which is a plus from the QA team's point of view.

Let's have a trial run of this sytem!

As with my previous post, it creates a rift - Such a system would effectively be the same as slapping a 2nd-rate sticker onto non-QA approved hacks...

Satan

[amykhar]

One thing to note is that different styles are not always wrong. For example Dark, you went around to many of my mods today making code change suggestions. In many cases, it was a matter of personal style.

My style, except for when I get lazy, was ingrained in me while working at software companies where maintainable, understandable code takes precedence over optimized code. So, while your one-line replacements for my code blocks are appropriate style, they aren't what I'm going for.

My goal is to write code so readable that I stop getting silly requests for minor tweaks. I am working toward instructional and idiot-proof when I post here.

The way I see it, the people who need highly optimized one-liners are people who know how to do it themselves or who aren't trolling around for free code mods here

Also, mods posted here generally tend to be refined over time. Right now, we are in pre-release stages of Vbulletin. Everybody is upgrading over and over again. The emphasis right now is to get the functionality we had before the upgrade and get it fast and bug-free. THEN, we can add features and code refinements.

[Chris M]

Originally Posted by amykhar

One thing to note is that different styles are not always wrong. For example Dark, you went around to many of my mods today making code change suggestions. In many cases, it was a matter of personal style.

My style, except for when I get lazy, was ingrained in me while working at software companies where maintainable, understandable code takes precedence over optimized code. So, while your one-line replacements for my code blocks are appropriate style, they aren't what I'm going for.

My goal is to write code so readable that I stop getting silly requests for minor tweaks. I am working toward instructional and idiot-proof when I post here.

The way I see it, the people who need highly optimized one-liners are people who know how to do it themselves or who aren't trolling around for free code mods here

Also, mods posted here generally tend to be refined over time. Right now, we are in pre-release stages of Vbulletin. Everybody is upgrading over and over again. The emphasis right now is to get the functionality we had before the upgrade and get it fast and bug-free. THEN, we can add features and code refinements.

Exactly what I was trying to say amy - The people that are crying out for the valid coding style are perfectly capable of altering the code that others create to their own level of perfection, without forcing others to be subject to your QA perfectionist view on how things should be done...

Satan

[akanevsky]

But then a Quality Label can be seen as saying that some hacks are better than others, not that their code style is just more in-line with what a group of people think it should be...

If labels are important to you, then we can explicitly state "Validated Code", while having a link at an article explaining what this is all about.

Honestly - If a hack is that important to me as it is so good, and the code is poorly done, I re-code it myself - The only people I can see complaining about coding standards are standard fanatics... I'd say over half the people who visit vBulletin.org and install hacks from here rarely care if the code is sloppy - As long as it doesn't bring their site to a halt and does the job they want, they're happy...

It does bring sites to halt (due to a high server load that results in parsing of an unoptimized code), and I can give you some examples. I just don't think it is necessary. "A buck is made up of cents".

Honestly, all I can see this doing is creating bad feeling, a "division" between coders and eventually tearing a rift in the community...

Thay way no one would fell slighted or small or discouraged for not knowing the standard and having it pointed out

You are missing one: there is already a division: "Coder"/"Adv. Coder"/"Master Coder". And yet - there is no tearing of the community. There are, instead, coders who are struggling to get a higher status by making more useful hacks that will be installed by a larger amount of people.

As with my previous post, it creates a rift - Such a system would effectively be the same as slapping a 2nd-rate sticker onto non-QA approved hacks...

Ah.. I see. And the "Coder" and "Adv.Coder" are like slapping a 2nd-rate and 3rd-rate sticker on coders themselves (according to your point of view)?

My style, except for when I get lazy, was ingrained in me while working at software companies where maintainable, understandable code takes precedence over optimized code. So, while your one-line replacements for my code blocks are appropriate style, they aren't what I'm going for.

What I suggested in those posts was my personal preference, rather than a standard. From your perspective, one liners are harder to read, and I agree with you. This easiness-to-read, is, though, exactly what the vBulletin code standard intended for. No need for worries.

However, I'd like to point out that in one of those three posts I pointed out how to remove three (!!) unnecessary queries from the hack. These unnecessary queries are exactly what I'd like to try to avoid.

THEN, we can add features and code refinements.

There is no such thing as "THEN". "THEN" the hacks will be already installed by everyone, and there will be not point in refining the code. Besides, you usually lose interest in older hacks and do not feel like returning to those later on. Esspecially if they are large hacks. It will be just physically impossible to revise them.

--
P.S. Hellsatan, please do not quote whole posts, ok? You are making the thread cluttered and hard to read. Please edit your posts and remove the quotes. Thanks.

[Adrian Schneider]

Originally Posted by Dark Visor

You are missing one: there is already a division: "Coder"/"Adv. Coder"/"Master Coder".

# of installs vs people rating your work on quality is very different.

[akanevsky]

# of installs vs people rating your work on quality is very different.

Not quality. Validity of the code. And you know what? Quality will come with the validity.

[Adrian Schneider]

Originally Posted by Dark Visor

Not quality. Validity of the code.

Yes, quality.

[Chris M]

Originally Posted by Dark Visor

If labels are important to you, then we can explicitly state "Validated Code", while having a link at an article explaining what this is all about.



It does bring sites to halt (due to a high server load that results in parsing of an unoptimized code), and I can give you some examples. I just don't think it is necessary. "A buck is made up of cents".





You are missing one: there is already a division: "Coder"/"Adv. Coder"/"Master Coder". And yet - there is no tearing of the community. There are, instead, coders who are struggling to get a higher status by making more useful hacks that will be installed by a larger amount of people.



Ah.. I see. And the "Coder" and "Adv.Coder" are like slapping a 2nd-rate and 3rd-rate sticker on coders themselves (according to your point of view)?



What I suggested in those posts was my personal preference, rather than a standard. From your perspective, one liners are harder to read, and I agree with you. This easiness-to-read, is, though, exactly what the vBulletin code standard intended for. No need for worries.

However, I'd like to point out that in one of those three posts I pointed out how to remove three (!!) unnecessary queries from the hack. These unnecessary queries are exactly what I'd like to try to avoid.


There is no such thing as "THEN". "THEN" the hacks will be already installed by everyone, and there will be not point in refining the code. Besides, you usually lose interest in older hacks and do not feel like returning to those later on. Esspecially if they are large hacks. It will be just physically impossible to revise them.

--
P.S. Hellsatan, please do not quote whole posts, ok? You are making the thread cluttered and hard to read. Please edit your posts and remove the quotes. Thanks.

I will quote what I like thank you - Please do not try and control my own Posting style now...

Labels are wrong, no matter how they are worded...

It brings large sites to a halt - Small sites remain unaffected - Owners of Large sites would usually have the common sense to check the code and optimise it themselves - Assuming they don't, they can usually afford to have someone do that for them - Either way, your arguement is based on a minority of forums having issues with sloppy code...

That is not a division - It is a status - It is like Moderator and Admin - Your user title depicts how many hacks you have released and how many installs they have recieved - If someone were to release the same amount of hacks as me which had a similar number of installs, that would gain them my user title...

The difference between my title and forcing coding standards is that my way the person doesn't have the pressure of fighting against the stigma of it not being optimised to your liking...

If I release a sloppy coded hack, I don't want to have to justify that my hack may be great, but the majority of users will ignore it because they interpret the code as "Invalid" or "Poor" or "It Sucks" or any other way you want to flower it about...

As for everyone installing: That is what the "send update" feature is for - To alert users to new and/or improved versions of hacks...

Satan

[Chris M]

Originally Posted by Dark Visor

Not quality. Validity of the code. And you know what? Quality will come with the validity.

Code does not become invalid because you don't like the way it has been coded...

Satan