vB license agreement

[Logician]

Originally Posted by xQuEeNzNaZcHox

Hence all of what you posted, do you still think it is right that because one of your servers runs the Linux operating system, it is quite alright for them to not allow you to run Windows on another one of your servers, after you spent good money on the program and the multiple licensing (for use with more than 1 server)? What you are doing there is not even illegal, let alone voiding any legal agreement.

I didn't say it is right and I didn't say it is wrong, I'm just giving the picture from both sides:

* Nearly all software companies are doing this, some with good deeds and some with malicious deeds. The more powerful the product becomes, the more daring the company (thus the license agreement) becomes..

* Some of these agreements are against the law due to consumer protection laws so it is not always "take it or leave it" issue. In many countries consumer laws allows consumers to "take it as law decrees (not the license agreement)".

* It is a discussion with no result because the legal ground is blur in most countries and more importantly internet software issues are usually international and there is no international law concerning such issues. So law systems clash in such disputes.

* The amount of dispute is quite low (license fee) so no one cares to sue anyway.. Neither the software company, nor the consumer.

[lasto]

is some interesting points aired here and its true what is said about the licensing system - i really wonder how many others think the same way.If i buy a car and do a robbery with it does that mean i cant have that same make of car again ?

Also one thing that does me head in - is people associating warezs with child pornography - WHY

ive been on net a few years now and sort of know where to go but in all me time on net i have seen warezs from all points of views - BUT not once and i mean NOT ONCE have i ever come across chil pron so maybe the people who associate it with warezs maybe they the sort to know where to look for it.
Sidenote - I DONT WANT CHILD PRON but be realistic and stop associating it with warez they are 2 different things so all you doing is trying scare tactics on people.

People mention Piracy and then the thread is bombared with child pron posts - Get a life.Next u be telling us all that peodaphiles run warez sites to encourage young uns to download stuff and get private info off them.

What next ?

[Serge]

I figuare I will add this in. Why do you bring this up.

1. Unless Jelsoft as put some code in there program to allow them to look at PMs PMs are pretty private.

2. Also if you really wanted to you could keep Jelsoft out of your forums and still do all that stuff.

I think they have every right to to what they try to do but it is hard to enforce I figuare if a person really wanted to do that with there software they could and get away with it. Unless noppid is thinking he might want to do this I see no reason why everyone just can't except that fact that it is in there.

Lastly in most countries Warze and child Porn is Illegal by itself so if they are going to break one law I don't see them having much trouble breaking the agreement.

[insanctus]

I honestly feel it is the consumers right to do as they wish with the scripts they buy.

Would you buy a car then be told your not allowed to use it as a sex mobile? *knows they saved me a lot in hotel costs as a child*

You buy a script and that is that an allowance to legal post it on your site and use it as a community. For any to think that vbulletin is representing that community is only due to their rules on must show their copywrite which I also see as dumb (gm does not make you keep their logo on the car)

Vbulletin and many other company’s over step their bunds but as consumers in a limited market (of quality items) we are forced to bow down and except all their ridiculous rules.

The fact they do now want illegal things done with their software is understandable but the “to their liking” is dumb. Who are they to say what one likes is not fit to use their script. If it is not illegal then vbulletin should have no say in it.

[Serge]

Personally I don't care. The "to their liking" clause has never really been used by them or atleast it has never been used and someone complain about it because they felt it was injust.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by Serge

Unless noppid is thinking he might want to do this I see no reason why everyone just can't except that fact that it is in there.

I don't have or plan on having any content that would cause the clause in the agreement to use vbulletin to be used against me. I just thought it may have been too broad in it's coverage or intent. But since it's not been used, that we know of, the point is mute.

I was just looking for some points of view on censorship by a product's owner. It would seem that turning such a problem over to the police would get the software out of use. Emailing, PM'ing, or calling the person would not work in most cases and would probably be bad policy, it's not the software makers job to play policeman.

So I think it's fair to say the if the clause is exercised and the issue is not a matter for the police, then it's censorship.

[Chris M]

Originally Posted by noppid

I don't have or plan on having any content that would cause the clause in the agreement to use vbulletin to be used against me. I just thought it may have been too broad in it's coverage or intent. But since it's not been used, that we know of, the point is mute.

I was just looking for some points of view on censorship by a product's owner. It would seem that turning such a problem over to the police would get the software out of use. Emailing, PM'ing, or calling the person would not work in most cases and would probably be bad policy, it's not the software makers job to play policeman.

So I think it's fair to say the if the clause is exercised and the issue is not a matter for the police, then it's censorship.

I cannot see why you can compare a car to an online licence - If the car came with the stipulation that if it were abused, it would be taken back, then I can see the connection...

However - vBulletin is considerably cheaper than any decent vehicle, and at the end of the day, whether you use your vB as a child porn and/or warez forum, and are caught, you are liable to prosecution, as you are if you are caught using your car as a pimp-mobile or to getaway from a bank robbery etc...

Satan

[shovel]

Btw, thanks for reading and analyzing my post hellsatan.

[Erwin]

Originally Posted by shovel

Same thing with the hacks (code modifications) off of this very website. No one can enforce me from distributing hacks freely over my website. They aren't even physically OR legally copywritten with any country's Patent/Copyright Office. I could distribute them, it would make me look bad, but I could distribute them LEGALLY.

Just to address the issue of hacks and computer code:

If a person writes a piece of program, or code, or poetry, or story, or lyrics to a song, or music - the work created has copyright which belongs to the creator or author AUTOMATICALLY. This is a common law right.

Registration of this copyright gives protection under LEGISLATION (which offers greater protection) - however, even without registration copyright exists under common law.

Please read up on intellectual property laws before making untrue statements like that. If you distribute the copyright works of another person without the author's express or implied permission, you are then breaching copyright and can be sued for damages.

[pie]

Originally Posted by noppid

In another thread Filburt pointed out that a user could not use vbulletin to display content that was not of Jelsofts liking or that Jelsoft deemed illegal.

I think this is way out of line and unenforecable. It's like saying GM can take your car back if you choose to rob banks with it. There is a such thing as the first amendment and talk of an illegal subject matter or investigation about that subject is not illegal last I checked. The DCMA is a dangerous and illegal piece of legislation that should be challenged regulaly to prove it's illegality. Jelsoft seems to be playing internet police on this one. Just because you put a clause in a contract does not make it enforceable. Lawyers try this regularly to challenge the laws, but good Judges protect our rights as citizens more often then allowing a dangerous precedent circumventing the First amendment. I doubt it's enforceable.

Any comments?

Basically. Its renting in a way. Your renting the liscense, as your getting updates. Remember at car places you only get "updates" if your in a contract.

Its all above board.