[debate] is this ..vB Legal?

[Zachery]

Well, I am telling you what we tell people.

I'm sure the legal guy will be more than willing to deal with you, if you want to tread that tight line.

[Dr.CustUmz]

Originally Posted by Zachery

Well, I am telling you what we tell people.

I'm sure the legal guy will be more than willing to deal with you, if you want to tread that tight line.

im going to PM you cause not treading, but i would actually love to speak to an actual attorney about this, cause I'm just starting out and would love to know legally what i can and can not do.

just cause a vb / J$ rep says we cant do it our way... does not mean its technically illegal to do it another way.

[tbworld]

Are you really going to defend your claim in court. An attorney's take on the situation is only informational, they do not uphold the law -- just help you research/present/defend your view. Paying the branding free option is much cheaper then trying to be right.

The rest of us just leave the copyright in and get on with our lives. As a business man, fretting over this does not make any sense to me. Just trying to help.

We all know where you are coming from.

[Dr.CustUmz]

Originally Posted by tbworld

Are you really going to defend your claim in court. An attorney's take on the situation is only informational, they do not uphold the law -- just help you research/present/defend your view. Paying the branding free option is much cheaper then trying to be right.

The rest of us just leave the copyright in and get on with our lives. As a business man fretting over this does not make any sense to me. Just trying to help.

We all know where you are coming from.

its not that, and if i wasn't going to be selling my skins here shortly i really wouldn't be making to big of a deal about it. To clarify this a little, I'll share the PM I sent to Zach with you guys. It's not that i want to argue this, but i mean... technically speaking i'm branding it... anyway here's what i PM'd him (since he actually works for J$ / vB)

im not trying to argue about this or anything, it's more of a curiosity. overall i am still including the copyright, i keep vBulletin plainly visible, yes i know it's not ideally the way vB would like it to be done... but credit is still givin.

what i showed in the SS is kind of the way i want to go about it for all of my skins even thought up some pretty cool css transition ones that are collapsed to say "powered by vBulletin(c)" and then on hover it expands to say the rest of the copyright info, even though i believe "powered by vBulletin" is all that is required, but that's kind of the reason i'd like to speak to you guys, or even an attorney about it.

the only reason it's such a big deal to me is because i plan on making and selling skins, if it was just being debated for my personal site i really would not be arguing my cause so much lol.

but, if needed i can throw together a few html examples of different ways i was thinking and you and your co workers could take a look at them, or even let the law guy see them =) it's nothing too serious and its really not a big deal if i end up just having to print the phrase on my footer templates, BUT i'd just like there to be a uniqueness to my skins. i kind of get that this hover popup one not being approved how i demo'd it in the screen shot, but if i were to have the visible text say "powered by vbulletin(c)" and the hover show the rest i dont see why there would be any issues with that.

like i said though, i can make an html file full of different ways, and have you guys let me know what is/isn't acceptable.

maybe that will give you guys a better idea too =)

i have a feeling vB's TOS are about to change a little lol

[tbworld]

Originally Posted by Dr.CustUmz

its not that, and if i wasn't going to be selling my skins here shortly i really wouldn't be making to big of a deal about it. To clarify this a little, I'll share the PM I sent to Zach with you guys. It's not that i want to argue this, but i mean... technically speaking i'm branding it... anyway here's what i PM'd him (since he actually works for J$ / vB)
maybe that will give you guys a better idea too =)

I see where you are going with this now, makes a lot more sense.

[Dr.CustUmz]

1.2 Notices. The Software must contain vBulletin Solutions’ copyright and other proprietary notices that appear on or in the Software, unless a Branding Free License is purchased.

nothing more nothing less... Pretty sure im good to do it the way i showed and the ways i plan =)

[Mr_Running]

Reading the branding and my experience...

Do not remove this copyright notice -->

{vb:rawphrase powered_by_vbulletin}

Phrase: Powered by vBulletin must be visible at all times not on a hover

Things you can do
remove version number
remove link to vBulletin site
copyright can be place on one line

[Dr.CustUmz]

Originally Posted by Mr_Running

Reading the branding and my experience...

Do not remove this copyright notice -->

{vb:rawphrase powered_by_vbulletin}

Phrase: Powered by vBulletin must be visible at all times not on a hover

Things you can do
remove version number
remove link to vBulletin site
copyright can be place on one line

im going off of the TOS, what they put in the source has no effect if it's not stated in the TOS (legally speaking) and nothing says it MUST be visible at all times... j/s

this may be more of a debate for vb.com.... but i've got my conclusion, not off this thread, but from vb's official license holder TOS, and thats what i will base my designs off of =)

technically speaking, from their TOS i COULD only show the (c) on the index if thats all i wanted it to show on, i wont be doing it this way... but just again legally speaking per their own TOS =)

[DreadsUK]

Originally Posted by Zachery

I'm sure the legal guy will be more than willing to deal with you, if you want to tread that tight line.

Thats unnecessary provocation and poor behaviour. This guy is simply trying to establish what he can and cant do. No need for ill manners. It really doesn't represent you very well at all. Just so you are aware. I'm taking screen shots of your actions from this point on. Just in case this does go down the legal route as you seem so keen to provoke.

Originally Posted by Dr.CustUmz

im going to PM you cause not treading, but i would actually love to speak to an actual attorney about this, cause I'm just starting out and would love to know legally what i can and can not do.

just cause a vb / J$ rep says we cant do it our way... does not mean its technically illegal to do it another way.

I'm going to pm you now and recommend no further public contact with the vBstaff on this matter.

I would suggest that you seek only email contact and make use of the stipulations afforded in the email guidelines.

[Zachery]

Okay, you do that then. Walking a fine line is his choice to do so, but it might end him up in some light trouble. It was a warning that it could cause him problems. Which is very true.



If you want full clarification of what you want to do is okay, please contact sales@vbulletin.com and we'll make sure to get you an answer.

However, generally the copyright must be fully intact, and plainly visible.


And because I'm a fun guy who likes to have fun, screen shots are totally proof