Goodbye vBulletin

[Brandon Sheley]

I'm not leaving vbulletin, and I would never use durple..lol

[edytwinky]

The more features the better. At least you have the option of disabling most of those features that people usually don't use like social groups and such.

Better to have too much than too little

[1Unreal]

I think you guys are missing the point of drupal here. Drupal is only an example. vB is very outdated in comparison to alot of todays web software.

[smartkidbk5]

I love vBulletin. The only bad reason you could say is the money maybe. But it is way worth it in my opinion. vBulletin is probably much more customizable then any other forum software. Yes it may be a bit confusing to some, but thats why we have vbulletin.com and vbulletin.org

Unreal- If your saying Drupal is only an example. Show a better example. There is no better forums software then vB in my opinion. If you think there is a better forum software then vB, please show me. Also how is it outdated? Yes maybe the default style is, but thats why there are millions of templates out there...

[Shelley_c]

Originally Posted by edytwinky

The more features the better. At least you have the option of disabling most of those features that people usually don't use like social groups and such.

Better to have too much than too little

More isn't always better. I always believe in the old saying quality over quantity. Having the option to disabling is nothing more than an excuse.

[1Unreal]

Originally Posted by smartkidbk5

Unreal- If your saying Drupal is only an example. Show a better example. There is no better forums software then vB in my opinion. If you think there is a better forum software then vB, please show me. Also how is it outdated? Yes maybe the default style is, but thats why there are millions of templates out there...

vB is the best forum software by far. However why are they using tables as layout objects? Thats really old stuff. Also, <font> for example is a depreciated tag. Why is this being used?

[smartkidbk5]

Originally Posted by 1Unreal

vB is the best forum software by far. However why are they using tables as layout objects? Thats really old stuff. Also, <font> for example is a depreciated tag. Why is this being used?

what would they use other then tables?

and yes they should fix the <font> for vB4

[1Unreal]

divs. Tables are not made for layouts. Where as divs are.

[Tim Skellett]

I read through all the cited articles and their own linked articles. I wasn't impressed at all by the arguments used against the vBulletin software.

Taking the anti-vBulletin arguments one by one:

"Bloated software"

This is heard a lot, yet almost all the time I have seen this phrase or an equivalent used, it's sheer emo and emo only, and has no substance to the charge. Breaking down this specific charge into three bits:

1. the charge that bloated software makes the whole vBulletin-based board run slower, owing to having to process more code than needed.
   .
2. and the charge of "too many features, too many options", yada yada yada.
   .
3. Crowded ACP.

Charge A seems to me to be overstated. In my experience, most boards suffer no performance problems using vBulletin; perhaps the issue of code really does affect some boards, perhaps the biggest ones, but I would like to hear some actual facts, some figures, some real quantitative analysis, before I lend this one much creedence.

Charge B is almost always vacuous. For example, in the Drupal node thread discussing the original article, one user claims no-one really needs a BB Code Editor. That's utterly ridiculous; most vB boards I've ever been on used the Custom BB Code functions, and I myself use them a hell of a lot on my own boards. One man's fish is another man's poisson; just because you don't like the full range of options given by vBulletin doesn't mean that they aren't exactly what someone else is looking for. As it is, I am extremely grateful for the large range of customization and other options offered by the vBulletin software.

And of course, a lot of people find Drupal far too limited. Drupal really has too little options, and the only response of the Drupal adminning community to that was to tell the complainants to help them write more Drupal code, which is hardly a strong refutation of the charge that Drupal is badly underpowered (no email notifications, and other specific lacks discussed in that thread).

I mean, really, the very original essay is ridiculous in how far it goes. The author suggests that these be removed from vBulletin and added as add-on's:

# signatures
# User Profiles
# Avatars (and profile pictures)
# Private Messages
# Subscriptions
# Buddy/ignore Lists
# Post attachments
# Calendar
# Event Reminders
# Announcement
# Polls
# Send Email to users
# Infractions
# User Ranks
# User Reputations
# User Titles
# Paid Subscriptions
# Smilies
# BBCode
# Statistics
# Podcast

This is incredible. In other words, make vBulletin crippleware, then get admins to have to install a whole lot of extra modules just to have what most board users regard as fundamental to a bulletin board????

No way. I like vBulletin as it is, and the users of my boards seem to like all those functions and functionality themselves.

Charge C -- the crowded interface of the vBulletin AdminCP -- is the only really strong charge of the lot. True, the ACP could be made more userfriendly.

"Constantly Changing Templates"

The author of the article exaggerates the amount of hassle in upgrading. I've been through three major upgrades, and doing up styles; it's nowhere near as bad as he makes out.

"Other Gripes of the original author"

Licensing
The author doesn't like the lack of absolute certainty that Jelsoft might not be there tomorrow. Well, goodness. We might be all wiped out by giant asteroids or vicious intestinal amoeba tomorrow, know what I mean? Time to get over it, and accept there is no such thing as absolute certainty, and simply do as best as one can.

Oh yeah, and paying. Well, golly gee. vBulletin offers me as a board owner a huge degree of functionality, and frankly, it's rather cheap at the price. The vB unencoded software, and the vB mod developer community, are what really help me and keep me on vB. IMvHO, it's very well worth what Jelsoft ask for it. Sheeesh. phpBB is free, and I'm very glad I switched from phpBB to vB.

Templates Stored in the Database
The author claims flat files would be better for performance than the database system. I'ld like to see actual comparative figures before I give creedence to this charge.


Security Issues

This is where the argument gets emo again. First off, vB is lambasted for having security problems, then vB is lambasted for quickly issuing security patches??? You can't have it both ways. Either vB is supposed to be insecure -- which I don't believe, not if all upgrades and patches have been implemented -- or vB rushes around with too many updates. Well, look, I'll take the constant updates any day, and rest easy in the knowledge that Jelsoft do indeed pay a great deal of attention to security.


SEO

Perhaps a valid charge of the author's; indeedy, vB could be more SEO'ed for boards. But it's not too bad as it is. Again, the author gives no facts, no comparative analysis with real figures, and I would like to see all that before lending too much creedence.

Finally,
CSS versus tables

Yeah, well, tables, tables, tables.

Tables are robust. They really do work, and there are cases where all the CSS in the world can't really replace a nice HTML table. Now, I grant CSS is better overall, and there is at least one committed vB coder (Mert of the Depkac site) who has developed CSS-only styles for vB, a massive undertaking and one which I respect and admire very highly indeed.

Hopefully, in the future, there will be more CSS stuff, and it will be easier for admins and users to customize. As it is, the newish vBulletin Blogs system is very mainly CSS, and very few tables indeed. It's a steep learning curve for those not used to CSS, and requires a good more work. Worth it in the end.

But when someone says they're leaving vB for Drupal, and then when the lack of features and functionality in current Drupal is pointed out, the response from others is "Well, write the code!"




No way. I'll pay what is a very decent price for vBulletin any time, I'll simply hope giant nematodes don't wipe out Jelsoft tomorrow, and I'll go on using vB and most of its features, and I'll do so very happily. And my boards' members are happier for it (many can remember when my first board was running on freeware, and had all the power of a soggy buttie).

My vote's for vBulletin, every time, for the time being. I've looked at alternatives, tried some, always ended up preferring vB.

[ranz]

Originally Posted by 1Unreal

vB is very outdated in comparison to alot of todays web software.

I don't agree with this point.

vBulletin uses Ajax and has some fantastic features that a lot of other forum software have copied.

In fact "out of the box" vBulletin offers so many features and that's what attracted us to convert from phpBB - because we would have to heavily mod phpBB to bring it up to the equivalent vBulletin.

So I would like to know what other forum software is out there that is less outdated than vBulletin? please enlighten me ...