Proposal: The vBulletin.org Commercial Services and Addons Directory.

[sabret00the]

You mention the license system? does this mean that only registered members will be able to see?

Ok my opinion on addition to the directory should be a level of community involvement, i.e they must be a regular poster and must have released at least one hack for three for the current vBulletin version. i like your idea about discounts for more active hackers, that could perhaps be reduced if they're a master coder or something.

all in all it's great news, thank you

what wouldn't have been a bad idea thinking about it would've been to run the directory on a third party site and add that to the links at the bottom of the forum index and depending on how much traffic that directory got, integrate it here.

[KW802]

Good to see this thread! As soon as the rates are listed I'll be putting it into the advertisting budget.

The only suggestion I would have is to *not* do a rating type system. If one is done what will happen is that it'll turn into a mess with people trashing products they don't like (because they prefer something else) or even competitors trying to make their competition look bad. Taking a cue from Microsoft & other companies that list 3rd party vendors they simply provide a listing and let the customers decide on their own.

[noppid]

Why would someone pay to be in a closed directory that only vBulletin owners can see and on a resource that not all vBulletin users access?

Why would the directory be closed? Does Jelsoft not think that quality add-ons could increase sales? But if the add-ons are secret, how would perspective customers know of the things they can do to enhance their vB forums?

This is the most rediculous attempt to take advertising money I've ever heard.

BTW, What's in it for those of us that release and fix hacks at or above the rate of some moderators? I'm not knocking moderators, I'm bringing up the so called rewards that come with being an active helpful member. I've heard them mentioned many many times, but have not seen this reward. Am I supposed to have a good feeling in my belly or something?

[The Geek]

Fantastic to see this thread and its contents. The proposal so far seems very logical, fair and balanced.

I would prefer some type of rating system, however I easily concede that unless thought through it could be possibly twisted. However Ratings help one to get an insight into whether the product is well supported, decent value, etc... and can be used as a very constructive tool for customers. That said, I do agree that comments can get messy and ugly.

I think the directory would be best categorized by functionality. Each author can submit where applicable. A log would be good, product name, description and a link, however if the person viewing is not a licensed vB user, redirect them to a permission denied page.

I also think that having the author be able to update the version number a last updated information could be useful (could be really useful to keep a browsable history of this information). Not a big deal - just thinking aloud

I hope that custom programmers and style makers will also contribute to the directory, thereby making it an easy resource for customers to find the people they are after.

[joeychgo]

Not sure I like the fee part.

Personally - and I know this wont be popular with some of you, but i think there should be a free 'lite' version of the software before being allowed to advertise it.

-or-

Make it free for everyone to post a vB related product or service -

What about the little guy who just makes a few skins? I dont know what you plan to charge but maybe they cant afford it. They wold be closed out of the loop entirely.

Where do lines get drawn? What about signatures? Would The Geek not be allowed to advertise in his sig? or only if he bought an ad? What if he's advertising his vB forum, which is only for pupose of support of his product? If he is allowed to have his ad in his sig, then why buy the ad?

Would this be only for vB hacks? What about a hack that doesnt require vb to operate such as photopost (before they got vbgallery) - What about custom coders? would they have to pay to advertise too? If they're allowed, what about people offering to install vb for less then jelsoft charges?

Seems to me there are ALOT of questions.

Why not JUST do this --

Leave things as they are - except - make a forum where anyone can post anything about a vb related product or service they're offering. Just like the regular hacks. One thread per product / service. List in the description of the forum that vB and vB.org do not endorse anything listed there, and then call it a day.

I dont sell anything, so This doesnt really apply to me. Just pointing out a few thoughts.....

.

[Paul M]

I don't like the idea of paid hacks on vb.org itself so this does seem a reasonable compromise. However, I don't understand why only licenced members will be able to view it (unless i've misunderstood) - surely you want potential buyers to see what is on offer ?


This section bothers me ;

All income earned will go to benefit this site, either for additional software needed over the long term or to support the staff.

What exactly does that last bit mean - that you are going to share the "profits" out to the vb.org staff ? If so then this completely removes my support for this proposal. Firstly, the same staff will be moderating the links, and so will have a persoanl gain bias to decisions, and secondly I do not believe that the staff (who are supposed to be volunteers) should be making personal profit from this site when the rest of us, who still release free hacks for all, get no benefit.

[nighteyes]

I think it's a really bad idea. vBulletin.org should continue to encourage community development projects, add-ons and innovations for the software free-of-charge. The short-term gains you make from charging software developers for the right to list paid-for add-ons and projects could be wiped out if suddenly all the 'good stuff' is shut out and requires extra payments. Suddenly subsequent versions of vBulletin become less attractive when there's a heap of hacks and add-ons that each require additional sums of money to be installed and properly licensed.

It's human nature for people to want to cash in on their ideas and work. And I certainly couldn't blame anyone for wanting to get paid for their efforts - but if they choose to go down that route, it should be done outside of vbulletin.org IMHO. The moment you start giving people the means to use this medium to sell their work you create an irresistable marketplace for many that will stifle the really good thing you have going on..... the community spirit that many of Jelsoft's rivals would love to have backing their own products.

Why risk breaking something that has worked so incredibly well for a number of years?

[JayJay]

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to voice our opinions.

I believe that it would be a shame to see vBulletin.org heading towards supporting commercial modifications in such a way. I can forsee many people placing charges on their free modifications. I see that you disagree with this, but ask why they do code for free here. One of those reasons is due to the fact that it is hard to gain a good reputation/profile on the WWW without making your name and skills known elsewhere.

I do think, however, that coders should be fairly rewarded for their input. I, as do many, appreciate their time and efforts that go in to making the modifications that we all use. I think that the best way to do this is through unenforced donations.

Maybe the best way to go would be to encourage people to donate to the current coders here, rather than drawing in commercial enterprises and the likes. Support those who are part of the community here, and not those that are just interested in making money.

[Corriewf]

Originally Posted by Wayne Luke

Clarify some things here:

1) There is no liability. We will not be hosting these commercial addons on this site. The links will be links to the Author's webpage. There is no more liability for a dead link than there is for Google or Yahoo having dead links in their directory.

2) Fees will be available on a monthly and yearly basis. The exact fees haven't been determined yet. All income earned will go to benefit this site, either for additional software needed over the long term or to support the staff.

3) There is no proof that commercial software will eliminate free of charge addons. In fact software markets suggest the exact opposite is happening in the world. Commercial Offerings are becoming scarcer as companies merge or drop products while free of charge software is becoming more prevalent. This is not a trend but something that can be traced over the last 20 years. There is a place for both, even addons in both commercial and free of charge that do the same thing by different authors. Look at phpBB. It is successful and was originally released after vBulletin. Not to mention other free forum systems out there.

And this resets the comments.

Thank you for resetting as I was wanting to reply .

I think its a good idea to charge as that will make sure those listing are kept up to date by the authors. Who would pay to have a dead link listed. Good idea!

The only reason I said anything is that I like this site and dont want anything to happen to it because of something stupid.

The problem with the google analogy is that its a little off. Now lets say that you paid google some money for google earth software. Then you went to google's site and they had a listing of really cool add ons that you could buy. So you decide to buy an add on and something goes wrong. Now things go wrong all the time and normally its because instructions are not followed correctly. Anyway, you buy this add on for your google software and it totally crashs the software you bought from google. No matter what you do, you cant get the software from google to work anymore and their tech support just refers you to the owner of the add on. Well I can tell you that someone somewhere is gonna consult a lawyer about the software they paid and normally when someone decides to sue they go after all parties involved. Being that there are people that are making money off their sites using this software even increases this possibility.

Now the situation here is a little different as this is considered a third party site from Jelsoft, HOWEVER, this directory listing system is being implemented at least in principal by Vbulletin employees. That makes the above more applicable.

If you all get together with your lawyer(s) and just make sure that the warning given to the user previous to use is ironclad then I dont see there being any problems of liability. That is exactly what I would do. I keep a lawyer on staff just for ths kind of stuff.

[Logikos]

All income earned will go to benefit this site, either for additional software needed over the long term or to support the staff.

I love this offer and would be apart of it as soon as it was avaiable, but I don't agree that the staff here should profit off of it.

I agree with everything Princeton has to say, and also agree with everything Peterska2 has to say later in this thread. I believe the best solution would be to open a new domain with a new staff, dedicated members that are here on vB.org, or vB.com that help out more often then others.

That way you have two different atmosphere in the air; One for free hack modifications and another for paid modifications. This should also keep things much more orginized. Give the users who will pay for this service the oppurntunity to link there website for there modifacation, also a link that will point to a specific thread at the offical domain that will host this directory. When they submit the ad, it could auto start a specific threadid. Just some quick thoughts that I wanted to share. I hope my suggestions are not overlooked as well as everyone else who has posted in this thread.