Suggestions: How to bring vBulletin.org back to what it was before...

[The Geek]

A good manager gets paid well. A good volunteer however will represent the community at large and be able to be respected for their points of view.

Cut her some freaking slack. I'd rather have people here that can voice their opinion without being skinned by a couple of vocalists. Crikey, shes far less vocal than some on this thread.

[TECK]

Originally Posted by tgreer

When those "personal views" are diametrically opposed to the purpose of the site and the particular position held by the staff member in question, those views deserved to be scrutinized.

There is a way to say it, so the person doesn't get hurt...
What do you gain to create tension in a constructive discussion?
It will stop others share their oppinions, knowing they will be attacked by members.

So where is the advantage? You let us know.

Thanks.

[tgreer]

I haven't attacked amy. I don't even know her. She's probably a fantastic person: intelligent, witty, charming. I've praised her actions, such as actively moderating threads when they went off-topic, even though those actions weren't popular. So this isn't personal in the least.

However, her views and "vision" of what this site should be, are indeed directly opposed to what one would expect from the "Customer Team Leader".

And you don't have to take my word for it. Just imagine the ideal "Customer Team Leader", what viewpoints such a person should have regarding the site, and the various reasons people (customers) visit the site, how they could get the most from it... and then read her public posts, and compare.

In at least one respect, my fears are well-founded. I asked for a Town Hall thread on the coders forum issue, one was announced, I've held my tongue on the issue waiting for it, and wondered if it could be handled impartially. So, where is that thread?

[Dean C]

I agree with you tgreer on that particular member of staff.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by tgreer

I've held my tongue on the issue waiting for it, and wondered if it could be handled impartially. So, where is that thread?

tgreer, I've read all your posts on this issue and I wouldn't exactly say you've 'held your tongue' on this issue

I'm curious what more can you add to this?
No offence, but this banana has been beaten to a pulp.

[Marco van Herwaarden]

The topic of Amykhar's post has been discussed enough now.

She clearly stated that she was voicing a personal opinion. You are free to judge her as a person for having this opinion. And so you have done, and this should stop here.

As a Staff member Amykhar must follow the Staff policies just like any other Staff member, her personal opinion doesn't make a difference in her action as a staff member. If you feel that any staff member is abusing a Staff postion to force their personal opinion, then you could contact an Administrator so he can investigate the issue.

Originally Posted by tgree

In at least one respect, my fears are well-founded. I asked for a Town Hall thread on the coders forum issue, one was announced, I've held my tongue on the issue waiting for it, and wondered if it could be handled impartially. So, where is that thread?

It was announced the 16th, it is now 19th. Is that so long waited? That same question you have now posted and got answered in multiple forums here and vbulletin.com, and also had been answered by me in PM to you.

[tgreer]

Originally Posted by MarcoH64

The topic of Amykhar's post has been discussed enough now.

She clearly stated that she was voicing a personal opinion. You are free to judge her as a person for having this opinion. And so you have done, and this should stop here.

As a Staff member Amykhar must follow the Staff policies just like any other Staff member, her personal opinion doesn't make a difference in her action as a staff member. If you feel that any staff member is abusing a Staff postion to force their personal opinion, then you could contact an Administrator so he can investigate the issue.

It was announced the 16th, it is now 19th. Is that so long waited? That same question you have now posted and got answered in multiple forums here and vbulletin.com, and also had been answered by me in PM to you.

I've never judged anyone here as a "person", it would be unthinkable. Please don't imply that I've judged anyone.

As to a public TOWNHALL thread, there's nothing I can post in reply to you that you won't end up deleting, which makes it a bit hard to carry on the conversation. In fact, I've asked several questions about this situation on vbulletin.com, which you haven't answered.

[MJM]

tgreer, if the mods will permit, I'd prefer to reply to your PM in this thread.

One thing I really appreciate regarding some of your past posts is the emphasis of the need to act as professionals here at vB.org.
As Brad and others have pointed out, there is one main common denominator here that brings us together - We are mostly all admins and/or owners of our own site.

One of the toughest things we are faced with is the delegating of responsibilities.
This is really difficult to do because we know only too well what this involves, and know in our own minds what we aspire to be, but inevitably must pass on various responsibilities to others ... if we are to do well, what we do best.

As an admin, I'll be the first to admit that 'before I could learn to walk I had to learn to crawl' and even though now I can run, I still occasionally stumble.

And I am extremely grateful to those who have given me the space to learn at my own pace, despite occasional mistakes and blunders.

As an admin yourself I hope you agree that this is what we should afford the staff at vB.org.
They need time and space, even be permitted to make mistakes without being made to look like fools.

Re: creating private forums for whatever purpose...
All I can say to this is thank god everything isn't hashed out in the open!
The result would be - too many bright minds bickering over the details with little else getting done.

I really apologize if I sounded insulting. ... My wife says I can be downright callous at time ... but when it comes down to the nitty gritty I know of no other way to say it.
Let's give 'em a break. Even let 'em make mistakes.
Most of all they need to know they have our support.

Cheers,
Mark

[tgreer]

I only PM'd you to give you an answer to your question. I think wide-ranging issues which affect the entire community should be discussed openly; I don't make a habit of politicking via PM.

I agree that we all make mistakes. That isn't the issue. The issue is how one handles such mistakes. You'll just have to take my word that I didn't immediately rush over to vbulletin.com: I first PM'd the administrators about the mistake, and then took what I felt was the only reasonable next action based on the responses.

You don't sound insulting at all. I appreciate your very tactful post.

[noppid]

Here's the quality of your coders in the coders forum. I just looked up one member. He has access because he posted code someone else wrote with permission.

What does that "coder" bring to the table that someone else that did not code a hack does not?

I bet I can find more of these so called "coders". But as with everything else that is done in this club, it will be justified with some exception rule that only clique members can live up to.