Suggestions: How to bring vBulletin.org back to what it was before...

[tgreer]

When those "personal views" are diametrically opposed to the purpose of the site and the particular position held by the staff member in question, those views deserved to be scrutinized.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by rogersnm

i disagree completely. Many coders make free mods on this site and then jelsoft just come a long and pick up any mods they like and stuff it in the next version of vB without the users permission which is breaking the rules of this site. So if we want to realease paid hacks then we should seeing as jelsoft get paid for our work.

Conversely, they let us reuse their code. It's quid quo pro.

Copying an idea is different then copying code. I consider it a blessing when the good ideas from here appear in the vB production code. Some of my private hacks have been obsoleted because of new features. It's great that the management of that code is off my back. I love it!

[EasyTarget]

Originally Posted by tgreer

When those "personal views" are diametrically opposed to the purpose of the site and the particular position held by the staff member in question, those views deserved to be scrutinized.

that's by your interpretation. Her views and the forum in question doesn't conflict with it in the least bit for me.

and you're saying that she's ok to think what she wants, as long as you're okay with it, or it doesn't conflict with your opinion.

[Brad]

People want it both ways... Many of you want the staff expressing their personal opinions here, which is not really a bad thing as long as everyone conducts themselves like adults. The problem comes into play when you start tearing their posts down bit by bit, and telling them they do not deserve a position on the staff. This does nothing but drive them away from your points, they don't have to put up with this if they don't want to, rest assured no one is over there forcing them to press F5 all day.

I don't think any of you really realize how stressful it is for the staff members here. Think about it, how would you like to wake up to this mess everyday? Would you enjoy waking up in the middle of the night because you're worried about the drama going on in this forum? I know these are some of the things I did, and I'm sure other staff members (past and present) know exactly what I am trying to get at here.

Be respectful to your peers (staff, and fellow users). A polite "While I disagree with your points, I can respect them. Here is why I think they are incorrect" goes a long way in getting your opinion noticed in the staff forums. Really there is more to it than that, it shows respect...and I'm not talking about respecting someone because they are staff. I'm talking about respecting them because they are just like you: human.

Treat people how you want to be treated, and you'll find things will start to improve. Realize that this site is not about coders, or users, or staff, or the elite. It's about coming together and doing things that benefit the greater good. It's about learning from your peers, and passing on what you learned to others.

There will never be a time when you agree with everything that goes on here. This is just a fact of life, you just have to accept that while you may not think something belongs here, many others may not share this opinion. By all means express your opinion here, but please try to do it in a polite way.

Above all remember, this is not some school yard where you have to yell to get noticed. This is a community, for message board admins, who are looking to improve their communities and share knowledge with one another. Without places like this vBulletin would not be what it is today, hell the internet as a whole might not even exist, at least not in the form we see it in today.

It's always good to get ideas from both sides of an issue, this is the only way to find some sort of common ground. But you have to learn to work together even when you do not agree with each other. If you do not learn how to do this you will start to ignore some of your peers as time goes on, and that means you're not seeing the whole story.

[Ohiosweetheart]

VERY well said, Brad...

[Erwin]

Brad is like a refreshing breath of fresh air in smoggy downtown.

[Shelley_c]

Originally Posted by Brad

People want it both ways... Many of you want the staff expressing their personal opinions here, which is not really a bad thing as long as everyone conducts themselves like adults. The problem comes into play when you start tearing their posts down bit by bit, and telling them they do not deserve a position on the staff. This does nothing but drive them away from your points, they don't have to put up with this if they don't want to, rest assured no one is over there forcing them to press F5 all day.

I don't think any of you really realize how stressful it is for the staff members here. Think about it, how would you like to wake up to this mess everyday? Would you enjoy waking up in the middle of the night because you're worried about the drama going on in this forum? I know these are some of the things I did, and I'm sure other staff members (past and present) know exactly what I am trying to get at here.

Be respectful to your peers (staff, and fellow users). A polite "While I disagree with your points, I can respect them. Here is why I think they are incorrect" goes a long way in getting your opinion noticed in the staff forums. Really there is more to it than that, it shows respect...and I'm not talking about respecting someone because they are staff. I'm talking about respecting them because they are just like you: human.

Treat people how you want to be treated, and you'll find things will start to improve. Realize that this site is not about coders, or users, or staff, or the elite. It's about coming together and doing things that benefit the greater good. It's about learning from your peers, and passing on what you learned to others.

There will never be a time when you agree with everything that goes on here. This is just a fact of life, you just have to accept that while you may not think something belongs here, many others may not share this opinion. By all means express your opinion here, but please try to do it in a polite way.

Above all remember, this is not some school yard where you have to yell to get noticed. This is a community, for message board admins, who are looking to improve their communities and share knowledge with one another. Without places like this vBulletin would not be what it is today, hell the internet as a whole might not even exist, at least not in the form we see it in today.

It's always good to get ideas from both sides of an issue, this is the only way to find some sort of common ground. But you have to learn to work together even when you do not agree with each other. If you do not learn how to do this you will start to ignore some of your peers as time goes on, and that means you're not seeing the whole story.

I partially read your reply brad and what you say is very much sound. On the otherhand, Actions which followed would contradict what you say. Take the graphic database for example, Most importantly the placement. From a contributors perspective vbulletin made it very hard for designers to get a foothold in this area. I made a suggestion on ways of improving this area and with much contributing from myself after a solid month and being told it was being structured for the better it took a turn for the worse. I even suggested about naming the sub headings and posted them (which were sound) and still they are left empty. If indeed staff want the community to work together you need to work with them. So far, Staff aren't. You are told that progress is being made and when it is it's for the worse (I'm speaking of the graphic database).

Again, I am pointing to the graphic database and speaking as a contributor that the people behind the scenes didn't take a blind bit of notice and took it upon themselves to totally shatter the gfx database.

IMHO The staff would have a deeper respect for the graphic database if (from the start) you had dedicated staff to contribute into it. Heck, check invisionizie.com to see what I'm saying. For a resource site vb.org have possibly the worst structed, placement, content driven graphic database for any board software which was a shock to me when I first visited. Who do we blame for this, Well, I can only blame the people who neglected it and when feedback was ignored you only continue to pave the way for a shabby looking database.

Sure enough If progress in this area was taking a turn for the better you would be more obliged to have made something from it and take feedback from the members who have experience in graphic databases. You didn't which leads me to think people hold back in giving suggestions and feedback which also means you shouldn't be surprised why contributors get fustrated.

Actions speak louder than words brad and although your reply makes for good and sound reading you only have to take a look at the gfx area to see what I'm talking about and the ignored feedback I and others tried to give.

[Ohiosweetheart]

Originally Posted by Erwin

Brad is like a refreshing breath of fresh air in smoggy downtown.

lol...

[tgreer]

Originally Posted by EasyTarget

that's by your interpretation. Her views and the forum in question doesn't conflict with it in the least bit for me.

and you're saying that she's ok to think what she wants, as long as you're okay with it, or it doesn't conflict with your opinion.

I'm not doing any "interpretation" at all. Nor did I ever say what you just said I said. Simply re-read her post. She said what she said, and no one put "words in her mouth". Her sentiments and views regarding the site are contradictory and isolationist, but they are NOT ambiguous: no interpretation required.

And once more, anything further regarding the "forum in question" will have to wait for the promised but yet to appear Town Hall thread on the subject.

[noppid]

Originally Posted by tgreer

I'm not doing any "interpretation" at all. Nor did I ever say what you just said I said. Simply re-read her post. She said what she said, and no one put "words in her mouth". Her sentiments and views regarding the site are contradictory and isolationist, but they are NOT ambiguous: no interpretation required.

And once more, anything further regarding the "forum in question" will have to wait for the promised but yet to appear Town Hall thread on the subject.

I got your back on this one. You are dead on correct. She has stated clearly that she is not going to budge on her position no matter how many members disagree with her and that where she can influence the decision she will.

That is exactly what she has said and I have quoted her on it. Now she can either live by her words or deny them.

Neither benefits the community. A good manager follows the market demands.


P.S. Don't try to twist this into I think Amy is bad. I don't think that at all. I do think her postition of power and her expression of opinion lately are very selfish though. This is a community, not a club. Everyone pays the same to be here and should have all the same benefits. That is my problem, not the person, but the persons actions regarding one issue.